DMU Cascades

[TheBigD]

With the current electrification and new franchises is there a complete list anywhere of what is moving where and when, or going off lease please???

Cheers!!!

 

[ABB125]

5 class 153s, 9 class 156s and 12 class 170s are being released from East Anglia.

18 class 153s are being released from Northern, with 1 going to East Midlands Trains.

14 class 153s are being released from GWR, of which 6 will go to London Midland.

10 class 156s, 8 class 158s and 21 class 170s are being released from Scotrail, of which 5 156s, all 158s and 16 170s will go to Northern, and 5 170s will go to Southern

8 class 172s will be released from London Overground.

22 class 185s will be released from TransPennine Express.

This should leave:
30x class 153
14x class 156
12x class 170
8x class 172
22x class 185
Without anywhere to go.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Prestige15]

5 class 153s, 9 class 156s and 12 class 170s are being released from East Anglia.

18 class 153s are being released from Northern, with 1 going to East Midlands Trains.

14 class 153s are being released from GWR, of which 6 will go to London Midland.

10 class 156s, 8 class 158s and 21 class 170s are being released from Scotrail, of which 5 156s, all 158s and 16 170s will go to Northern.

8 class 172s will be released from London Overground.

22 class 185s will be released from TransPennine Express.

This should leave:
30x class 153
14x class 156
19x class 170
8x class 172
22x class 185
Without anywhere to go.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

153, May either to join their brothers or scrapped
156, May possibly go to Northern or EMT
170, Moving to Northern apparently, Not sure if its from Anglia or Scotrail.
172, I expected they could end up with Chiltern Railway or London Midland's branch lines (Bedford - Bletchley/Coventry - Nuneaton).
185, Hard to tell where these could end up so gonna take a guess and say either ATW, GWR, Anglia, Northern, Chiltern or EMT

 

[PHILIPE]

5 class 153s, 9 class 156s and 12 class 170s are being released from East Anglia.

18 class 153s are being released from Northern, with 1 going to East Midlands Trains.

14 class 153s are being released from GWR, of which 6 will go to London Midland.

10 class 156s, 8 class 158s and 21 class 170s are being released from Scotrail, of which 5 156s, all 158s and 16 170s will go to Northern.

8 class 172s will be released from London Overground.

22 class 185s will be released from TransPennine Express.

This should leave:
30x class 153
14x class 156
19x class 170
8x class 172
22x class 185
Without anywhere to go.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Suggested 5x153s belonging to a different ROSCO could stay with GWR. This was only posted a couple of weeks ago together with the OPs question but regrettably unable to find now despite search.

 

[sprinterguy]

10 class 156s, 8 class 158s and 21 class 170s are being released from Scotrail, of which 5 156s, all 158s and 16 170s will go to Northern.

Unless I'm missing something, the five class 170s not going to Northern are those currently being subleased back to Scotrail by Southern, and will duly move to the latter operator.

 

[PHILIPE]

Have turned up the thread where discussion has been taking place, a more comprehensive list, I think:-

www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=131653

 

[pemma]

10 class 156s, 8 class 158s and 21 class 170s are being released from Scotrail, of which 5 156s, all 158s and 16 170s will go to Northern.

All 170s being released by Scotrail have been secured by either Southern or Northern - the Eversholt ones by Southern and the Porterbrook ones by Northern. Scotrail are keeping more 170s than originally envisaged.

 

[ABB125]

I have changed my post to include Scotrail 170s going to Southern.

 

[physics34]

All 170s being released by Scotrail have been secured by either Southern or Northern - the Eversholt ones by Southern and the Porterbrook ones by Northern. Scotrail are keeping more 170s than originally envisaged.

Rumours southern no longer want these remaining 170s due to the conversion not being "financial viable"... and with the news on another thread they are looking at battery 377s, this may make sense..

 

[Townsend Hook]

153, May either to join their brothers or scrapped
172, I expected they could end up with Chiltern Railway or London Midland's branch lines (Bedford - Bletchley/Coventry - Nuneaton).

172s probably won't be wanted for Coventry-Nuneaton if the D-train (class 230) trial on that line proves successful..

 

[43074]

185, Hard to tell where these could end up so gonna take a guess and say either ATW, GWR, Anglia, Northern, Chiltern or EMT

OK then -

ATW - Possibly for Manchester - North & South Wales services, given Ardwick depot is in Manchester.
GWR - Nope, they seem quite content with keeping short HSTs (in the interim) & running 158s and 16x units in the future.
Anglia - Nope, total fleet replacement is already planned and 185s are very unfriendly to the track in the area due to their weight and the underlying conditions.
Northern - Nope, their fleet plans are pretty much set in stone, it's just a case of waiting for what's already planned to happen
Chiltern - Unlikely, they seem quite content running Clubmans and 68s on Mainline services - if they take anything on the list I'd suggest it would be the 170s or 172s
EMT - Possibly for Liverpool to Norwich, but equally part or all of the route may be operated by a different TOC in the not so distant future.

 

[PHILIPE]

OK then -

ATW - Possibly for Manchester - North & South Wales services, given Ardwick depot is in Manchester.
GWR - Nope, they seem quite content with keeping short HSTs (in the interim) & running 158s and 16x units in the future.
Anglia - Nope, total fleet replacement is already planned and 185s are very unfriendly to the track in the area due to their weight and the underlying conditions.
Northern - Nope, their fleet plans are pretty much set in stone, it's just a case of waiting for what's already planned to happen
Chiltern - Unlikely, they seem quite content running Clubmans and 68s on Mainline services - if they take anything on the list I'd suggest it would be the 170s or 172s
EMT - Possibly for Liverpool to Norwich, but equally part or all of the route may be operated by a different TOC in the not so distant future.

The future of 185s is already being discussed here on their own thread:-

www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=130814

 

[TheBigD]

Can I ask politely that the speculation stuff be left out please???

I'm interested in the factual current position regarding DMU transfers...

Feel free to speculate in a new or existing thread!!!

Cheers!!!

 

[PHILIPE]

Can I ask politely that the speculation stuff be left out please???

I'm interested in the factual current position regarding DMU transfers...

Feel free to speculate in a new or existing thread!!!

Cheers!!!

The trouble with the link quoted in the last thread was worded as an invitation to speculate so far as TPE 185s are concerned.

 

[WatcherZero]

The 185's are the only stock explicitly named by Government as an option for SWT bidders last month so I would assume SWT has to be leading candidate.

d) The Class 185 units that are due to be released from the TransPennine Express franchise during late 2019 and early 2020, and any other diesel multiple units that the Department may notify to Bidders via the Bidder Clarification Question process.

I think intention is they would replace the 158/159 to save modernisation costs but of course at the moment a bidder may bid completely new stock.

 

[pemma]

The 185's are the only stock explicitly named by Government as an option for SWT bidders last month so I would assume SWT has to be leading candidate.

I think intention is they would replace the 158/159 to save modernisation costs but of course at the moment a bidder may bid completely new stock.

I think that's partly an acceptance by DfT that DMU stock is not plentiful in supply. 22 x 185s are off-lease with no future home but at the time the ITT was written no other stock capable of doing at least 90mph was set to be released. DfT have allowed the option for bidders to ask them if they can take on the Anglia 170s which will now be available but DfT might be envisaging those going elsewhere.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

172s probably won't be wanted for Coventry-Nuneaton if the D-train (class 230) trial on that line proves successful..

Exactly how many units are required to run the Coventry-Nuneaton service. It can't be all that many, surely?

 

[PHILIPE]

Exactly how many units are required to run the Coventry-Nuneaton service. It can't be all that many, surely?

Always thought it was a single 153 but recently have seen pictures on Facebook of a pair. Shall we call it a train to avoid confusion, just 1 train for the day

 

[TheBigD]

Given the delays/rescoping of the GWML electrification, the limited delay to some Scottish electrification, and the delivery or expected delivery of new rolling stock etc etc, what is the current cascade timetable and what is planned to move TOCs and when please???


For example, are the 5 170s that Southern were supposed to get from Scotrail still happening given Southern's current issues???
What's happening withheld GWR cascades etc etc???
What is happening to the Anglia DMUs that will be replaced in a couple of years???

Thanks you for any replies!!!

 

[D365]

For example, are the 5 170s that Southern were supposed to get from Scotrail still happening given Southern's current issues???

The Class 170>171 conversion was more expensive/time-consuming than first imagined, which Southern weren't happy about.

What's happening withheld GWR cascades etc etc???

"HST-GTI" 2+4 sets are planned to tide over the delays.

What is happening to the Anglia DMUs that will be replaced in a couple of years???

Nothing in the public domain as yet.

You use a lot of question marks!

 

[Failed Unit]

If you look at EMT they haven't got enough DMUs to operate the franchise now. But all bets are off with the franchise up in 2018. The may bid for some - they may also replace the entire fleet or do a northern. (Some new some refurbished)

 

[Mordac]

I'm keeping track of all planned cascades (and new stock) on this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FPRVT9bpEI8Pvph5uuHNdvEWqYcKXC44Ih-Cg4x1XWc/edit#gid=0

Corrections always welcome!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm keeping track of all planned cascades (and new stock) on this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FPRVT9bpEI8Pvph5uuHNdvEWqYcKXC44Ih-Cg4x1XWc/edit#gid=0

Corrections always welcome!

If you were on the island of Sodor, you would be regarded as one of the "really useful crew".

Knowledge of the above comes from sitting with my two year old grand-daughter watching the "Thomas the Tank Engine" dvd's...

 

[PHILIPE]

I'm keeping track of all planned cascades (and new stock) on this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FPRVT9bpEI8Pvph5uuHNdvEWqYcKXC44Ih-Cg4x1XWc/edit#gid=0

Corrections always welcome!

Re GWR to Northern, 150925 and 150926 will go as 125 and 126. The 150/2 Centre Cars will be taken out, one fitted with a tiolet and PRM, of course, and formed into another 150/1

 

[IanXC]

Re GWR to Northern, 150925 and 150926 will go as 125 and 126. The 150/2 Centre Cars will be taken out, one fitted with a tiolet and PRM, of course, and formed into another 150/1

Another 150/2 presumably.

 

[Mordac]

If you were on the island of Sodor, you would be regarded as one of the "really useful crew".

Knowledge of the above comes from sitting with my two year old grand-daughter watching the "Thomas the Tank Engine" dvd's...

Thank you. I make these mostly to help myself keep track of all the changes, my OCD liking to have these written down. But I figured that since I was doing it, I might as well share the results with others who might be interested.

And I diesels way too much to be let out into the Isle of Sodor!

 

[DarloRich]

153, May either to join their brothers or scrapped
156, May possibly go to Northern or EMT
170, Moving to Northern apparently, Not sure if its from Anglia or Scotrail.
172, I expected they could end up with Chiltern Railway or London Midland's branch lines (Bedford - Bletchley/Coventry - Nuneaton).
185, Hard to tell where these could end up so gonna take a guess and say either ATW, GWR, Anglia, Northern, Chiltern or EMT

Missing is the suggested movement of the 3 x LM 150's. The word was they would go to Northern in exchange for 6 x 153's. Unsure if that will happen.

172, I expected they could end up with Chiltern Railway or London Midland's branch lines (Bedford - Bletchley/Coventry - Nuneaton)

They wont fit in the Vale platfroms

 

[PHILIPE]

Another 150/2 presumably.

Ooops. Of course

 

[158722]

Missing is the suggested movement of the 3 x LM 150's. The word was they would go to Northern in exchange for 6 x 153's. Unsure if that will happen.

Correct on the LM150s to Northern, but the info was that the incoming 153s to LM were not going to be ex-Northern. Angel Trains units from GWR was the suggestion, but given the cascade issues there, who knows just now!

 

[pemma]

Correct on the LM150s to Northern, but the info was that the incoming 153s to LM were not going to be ex-Northern. Angel Trains units from GWR was the suggestion, but given the cascade issues there, who knows just now!

According to the franchise agreement Northern are keeping all but 1 of their 153s until 2019, with the franchise agreement mentioning releasing 1 to EMT in the autumn of this year. On the other hand the lease expires on the GWR 153s in the Summer (unless they've recently extended the lease.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

153, May either to join their brothers or scrapped
156, May possibly go to Northern or EMT
170, Moving to Northern apparently, Not sure if its from Anglia or Scotrail.
172, I expected they could end up with Chiltern Railway or London Midland's branch lines (Bedford - Bletchley/Coventry - Nuneaton).
185, Hard to tell where these could end up so gonna take a guess and say either ATW, GWR, Anglia, Northern, Chiltern or EMT

16 x 3 car 170s from Scotrail are confirmed as going to Northern. Northern are supposed to also secure at least 36 carriages equivalent in quality and performance to those 170s by 2022 - so the Anglia 170s could meet that requirement.