Do restrictions apply on the use of public transport in Wales? Are leisure journeys allowed or not?

[BRX]

"Similarly" basically says it!

They want as little talking as possible (as that causes droplets to get out) and masks to stay on as much as possible.

Seems pretty sensible and it would be good if other TOCs pushed for the same.

The London Overground seems at times to be 50% occupied by people with masks on chins talking loudly into their phones.

 

[Djgr]

Seems pretty sensible and it would be good if other TOCs pushed for the same.

The London Overground seems at times to be 50% occupied by people with masks on chins talking loudly into their phones.

Does London Overground have 5 hour journeys?

Did anyone else read the article in the latest RAIL magazine that the chance of catching COVID on an individual railway journey has been calculated as 1 in 11000?

 

[The Prisoner]

You can’t see Route 1 returning to a 12 minute frequency after lockdown, I reckon the best you can hope for is every 20 minutes, hourly in the evening.

Sadly, I can see huge cuts in frequency and services after the lockdown and subsidy ends, many people will have alternative methods of transport, assuming they have a job to travel to to or any money for leisure purposes.

Slightly amazed to see it is going back to every 15 minutes from the week after next during the day, every 30 minutes in the evening and the last service of 2335 reinstated. https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/wales/s...ham-to-chester/?direction=inbound&date=200830

That's only one bus per hour less than pre lockdown. Fair play....will be able to use it again.

 

[AdamWW]

Pleased to see the "Essential travel only" message removed from the TFW Rail departure board I saw today.

 

[NorthOxonian]

One thing which doesn't seem clear from a lot of the guidance is the difference in the face covering guidance between Wales and England/Scotland. So what exactly are the rules surrounding "three layer" face coverings? Are they mandatory, and will you be stopped if you're not wearing one? To be honest, I don't even really understand what would class as one, it's all quite confusing.

At the moment it's a hypothetical question, but I would ideally want to know what to expect should I travel to Cardiff when I'm back at university and based much closer.

 

[AdamWW]

One thing which doesn't seem clear from a lot of the guidance is the difference in the face covering guidance between Wales and England/Scotland. So what exactly are the rules surrounding "three layer" face coverings? Are they mandatory, and will you be stopped if you're not wearing one? To be honest, I don't even really understand what would class as one, it's all quite confusing.

At the moment it's a hypothetical question, but I would ideally want to know what to expect should I travel to Cardiff when I'm back at university and based much closer.

My understanding is that the law in Wales doesn't require 3 layer masks, though when I went looking for the actual legislation I couldn't find it.
That doesn't stop operators from claiming it is the law, or mandating it anyway.

I somehow doubt that people are going to asked to show how many layers their masks have, though I suppose it could be used as a reason not to count a scarf or similar as a face covering.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

My understanding is that the law in Wales doesn't require 3 layer masks, though when I went looking for the actual legislation I couldn't find it.
That doesn't stop operators from claiming it is the law, or mandating it anyway.

I somehow doubt that people are going to asked to show how many layers their masks have, though I suppose it could be used as a reason not to count a scarf or similar as a face covering.

Mark Drakeford did specifically say 3-layer when he announced the policy weeks ago.
England, I think, is less specific and just a "face covering" will suffice.
The Welsh CMO (Frank Atherton) was never keen on masks ("only marginal benefit") and probably still isn't, but we're stuck with them now.

 

[AdamWW]

Mark Drakeford did specifically say 3-layer when he announced the policy weeks ago.
England, I think, is less specific and just a "face covering" will suffice.

He is indeed reported as saying that 3 layer masks would become compulsory on public transport.

But for some reason that's not what actually happened.

From the Welsh Government, 24th July:

What is the new legal requirement?
From Monday 27 July 2020 it is compulsory to wear a face covering on public transport in Wales.

What is a “face covering” and how should it be worn?
Please see our advice on wearing face coverings in places where social distancing may be difficult, and our guide to making a face covering which has three layers (as is recommended by the World Health Organisation).

So (unless this page is actually wrong - I haven't read the legislation itself), any requirement for 3-layer masks comes from operators themselves, not the law.

 

[Mag_seven]

The BBC has confirmed the news about transport in Wales no longer being restricted to essential travel

Coronavirus: Public transport restrictions lifted on Monday

Buses and trains were mainly for the use of key workers and people unable to work from home during lockdown.

www.bbc.co.uk

Coronavirus: Public transport restrictions lifted on Monday

• 3 hours ago
• Share this with Facebook
• Share this with Messenger
• Share this with Twitter
• Share this with Email
• Share

Related Topics

• Coronavirus pandemic

Media captionCoronavirus: You'll need a face mask on the bus, train or taxi
A restriction on using public transport for essential use is formally removed from Monday.
It was imposed during the height of the coronavirus restrictions when bus and trains were used mainly by key workers and those unable to work from home.
The Welsh Government said the change was part of a phased approach to easing restrictions.
Wearing face masks is compulsory on public transport in Wales, but there are exemptions on health grounds.
Cardiff Bus said it has added extra journeys to some of its services as "demand has increased", with additional safety measures introduced.
Transport for Wales said it has increased safety measures on trains and buses and has also made stations one-way for passengers.

Image copyrightPA MEDIAImage captionFace coverings have been mandatory on public transport in Wales since 27 July

• 'I'm the only one in my carriage with a face mask'
• Steam railways in 'precarious' situation

Chief executive James Price said: "I'd like to reinforce the message that it is now mandatory to wear face coverings on public transport and those failing to comply with the rules, who are not exempt, will be refused travel and could be fined by the British Transport Police.
"These measures are to ensure the safety of other customers and our colleagues and we expect people to take personal responsibility to comply."
Lee Waters, Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport, said: "It's essential that people act responsibility when using public transport" as the virus was still in circulation.
"This will involve planning journeys to avoid busy periods if possible, and washing or sanitising hands at the start and end of each trip," he said.

Now that non essential travel is permitted in Wales, its time to draw this discussion to a close. For discussion of things such as facemasks etc please use an existing thread. Thanks.

 

[yorkie]

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/676411/response/1623929/attach/2/FOI%202020%20147%20Essential%20travel.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Date issued: 18 August 2020

Essential travel

Thank you for your Freedom of Information (FOI) Act request of 12 July 2020. Your request has been considered in accordance with the requirements of the Freedom of Information Act and our information access policy.

The answers to your queries are set out below:

1.How do you define "essential" travel?
The Welsh Government defines essential travel as stated here:https://gov.wales/travelling-safely-during-coronavirus-pandemic-guidance-public-html#section-42706

2.Is this being enforced within Wales, England, or both?
This was not enforced. This was guidance to the public and was being delivered through education and encouragement from staff as well as published information.

3.If it is being enforced, how?
This was not being enforced.

4.If anyone has been, is being, or is intended to be restricted in the journeys they can make, please provide full details.
It was not our policy to enforce the types of journeys people were making on TfW services.

5.Are you denying the rights of non-car owners to make journeys that a car-owner would lawfully be able to make?
No. We were asking people to consider whether their journeys were essential in order to ensure there was capacity for those who need to make essential journeys or who had no other option.

6.Please provide all relevant correspondence with any relevant bodies (Welsh Government, Transport Focus, Department for Transport etc) regarding this policy
We received no direct correspondence from the Welsh Government, DfT or the RDG relating to ‘e ssential travel’ but have relied on guidance issued on websites and bulletins, as detailed in (1). Each time information has been published by any authority, we have updated our own internal documentation, guidelines and policies. This guidance is issued to our Operator and Development Partner (ODP) ‘TfW Rail Services’, operated by Keolis Amey. Yours sincerely Transport for Wales

So, in summary, TfW did this off their own bat, and it was only guidance; staff were not authorised to refuse travel. Leisure travel was permitted. This is consistent with what I was saying all along.

Rail police are turning passengers back in Wales if their journey is deemed not essential.
Heard of 2 turned back attempting to travel from Shrewsbury to Aberdyfi not allowed to change at Machynlleth last week, friend behind them quickly invented a story about a relative to convince the interrogators.

If anyone was refused travel, I would write to TfW (and/or BTP, as appropriate) to seek appropriate compensation in the first instance.

If a suitable apology and adequate compensation is not provided, feel free to post a thread in the disputes section of the forum (and tag me in so I see it).

It is actually advice though isn't it? They can't really stop people considering they have had to put extra trains on to Barry Island.

This was absolutely correct, yes.

And in turn it's not TfW's fault either, they are just following the instructions being given to them by Welsh Govt.

As can be seen above, TfW "received no direct correspondence from the Welsh Government"#

Extract from TFW Journey Check
Alterations to services at Barry Island

... The type of ticket available will be limited to singles-only for all non-essential journeys, where capacity is breached and a risk to the health of essential workers and rail staff is clear and present. ...

If anyone was denied a return ticket and was charged a higher price for 2 x single tickets, they are entitled to:
- a refund of the additional fare paid
- an apology
- appropriate compensation for their time pursuing the matter

The matter can also be referred to the DfT as a breach of the Ticketing Settlement Agreement and the ORR as a breach of consumer law.

Interestingly, it seems like Wales in particular are emphasising “key workers only” rather than “essential only”. If I had to make an essential trip in Wales, would I not be permitted to do it via train because I’m not a key worker?

Any journey was permitted, it's just the company was discouraging certain journeys, using wording which was designed to mislead people into thinking what they were doing might not be permitted.

Anyone who was mislead should write to the company in the first instance; I'd be interested to see what response is provided.

Well if the staff confronted me, my answer would be to politely point out that the purpose of my journey is none of their business. We do not live in North Korea and the law says you can travel.

This was entirely correct, and the staff were not authorised to deny travel.

This is clearly trying to bully and intimidate people who are legitimately travelling on a leisure journey ...

Again, their response makes it clear that this interpretation is absolutely correct.

As the misleading "essential only" messaging has been dropped I will again close this thread shortly; if anyone was denied travel and/or mislead, and either require assistance wording your complaint or are dissatisfied with TfW's response, please create a new thread in the Disputes section of the forum.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If anyone was refused travel, I would write to TfW to seek appropriate compensation in the first instance.

Presumably Delay Repay would be payable?

 

[yorkie]

Presumably Delay Repay would be payable?

I'd agree that the calculations used for Delay Repay would be a good starting point for compensation, in appropriate circumstances.

 

[Dai Corner]

It's interesting to note that they only responded to the FoI request after the rules has changed. They could therefore write in the past tense.