Do trains have a timetabled departure of 00:00?

[Tony2215]

Ive never actually seen a timetabled departure or arrival of 00:00, only do I ever see is 23:59 or 00:01. Is there a 00:00 that exists anywhere in the current timetable, or has one ever existed?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I believe an entry of 0000 plays havoc with systems, so as you say everything is either 2359 or 0001. I know trains over in Northern / Republic of Ireland have midnight departures however.

 

[The Planner]

Cant be done as mentioned, the system doesnt like it, you fiddle the time with adjustment if it occurs.

 

[steamybrian]

When I first worked for BR in the 1960s the last train left Victoria to Brighton with portions for Eastbourne and Hastings at midnight (0000hrs) and was in the public timetable for many years until after much confusion it was changed to 2359 public time (0000 working timetable time). The equivalent train today departs at 0005 public time.

 

[tractakid]

Is it not a bit ridiculous that the system can't cope?

 

[Tony2215]

surely a computer system in todays world of modern tech would be able to cope with the figure of 00:00, as 00:00 is just a number on the clock as is 00:01, 00:02, 00:03 and so on....

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Is it not a bit ridiculous that the system can't cope?

Some computer systems will read it either as an invalid/non-existant service or it will crash the system.
The Y2K bug was similar. Some computers then showed the date as 1900, or 19100 on my first PC! And many more crashed if they weren't fixed beforehand.
I imagine it would be risky. And passengers may get confused as it may be shown one night but not the next morning.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It might, however, confuse some members of the public especially at the beginning and end of the week when timetables are different; having a time of 00.00, while logically at the start of the day, could be misinterpreted by some as being at the very end of the previous day.

23.59 and 00.01 remove that risk of confusion completely.

 

[306024]

surely a computer system in todays world of modern tech would be able to cope with the figure of 00:00, as 00:00 is just a number on the clock as is 00:01, 00:02, 00:03 and so on....

Whatever makes you think that the railway uses modern computer systems?

It is not a big issue, and removes any doubt as to which day you are referring to.

 

[Tomnick]

The system, or at least one of them, certainly does throw a wobbly if you try to enter a time of 0000, but I've always thought that it was a deliberate decision to make it so (to avoid any confusion) rather than just a limitation of the system.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The system, or at least one of them, certainly does throw a wobbly if you try to enter a time of 0000, but I've always thought that it was a deliberate decision to make it so (to avoid any confusion) rather than just a limitation of the system.

There are deliberately no trains at 0000 in the UK to avoid confusion. There's a wonderfully olde-worlde wording in the GBTT explaining this.

Neil

 

[tractakid]

Or perhaps, if there were trains at 0000 and someone did get confused, perhaps missing one train in order to learn how to tell the time properly is for the greater good!

 

[ValleyLines142]

On a similar note, what days are they registered as?

For example, there was this service this morning: 2W85 0042 Bedford to Three Bridges. Would this be classified as today (15th), or yesterday (14th)?

 

[87015]

On a similar note, what days are they registered as?

For example, there was this service this morning: 2W85 0042 Bedford to Three Bridges. Would this be classified as today (15th), or yesterday (14th)?

The day it runs on. Easily shown by the days run being MSX (OK, its a variation, but the base train is probably the same) ie not Monday morning which would be the end of Sundays service where trains would be MO. Bedford probably isn't the easiest place to see it because of the all night service, pretty much any other terminal will show it clearer!

 

[mildertduck]

(Slightly off topic) - I once had a deadline set for "Friday night at 24:00" because the lecturer was so sick of "When you say midnight Friday do you mean the start or end of Friday!

 

[Flamingo]

I would guess the confusion is what date does the 00:00 refer to? I seem to recall that for this very reason, military timings are always 23:59 or 00:01 as it removes this ambiguity.

 

[Elecman]

Isn't midnight 24.00 and 1 minute past midnight is 00.01, as its called the 24 hour clock

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't midnight 24.00 and 1 minute past midnight is 00.01, as its called the 24 hour clock

0000 is midnight at the start of a day, 2400 at the end of a day. I think.

Easier to move any such trains to 2359/0001 as is done.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would guess the confusion is what date does the 00:00 refer to? I seem to recall that for this very reason, military timings are always 23:59 or 00:01 as it removes this ambiguity.

"Do not worry about the ambiguity as to which day Midnight itself belongs, for, to avoid this problem, all times skip from
2359 to 0001 and neither 0000 nor 2400 is ever used!"

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse documents/eNRT/Dec14/Commercial_Information.pdf

Neil

 

[jon0844]

Try explaining the difference between 0000 and 2400 to the general public. And I've also seen times reported as 24nn which is even more confusing. Can't remember where, mind (but I didn't dream it!).

 

[pne]

(Slightly off topic) - I once had a deadline set for "Friday night at 24:00" because the lecturer was so sick of "When you say midnight Friday do you mean the start or end of Friday!

Good idea!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

0000 is midnight at the start of a day, 2400 at the end of a day. I think.

That's what I have heard as well.

I think German railways use the convention that trains are timed to arrive somewhere at 2400 but timed to leave at 0000.

(At the midnight between, say, Friday and Saturday, the first would be 2400 Friday, the second 0000 Saturday.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've also seen times reported as 24nn which is even more confusing. Can't remember where, mind (but I didn't dream it!).

The timetable program for the local PTE has times going as far as 2700 for the last routes of a working day, I believe -- internally, at least. They're displayed to the user as 0000-0300.

Easier to work with because the timetable of such day routes often depends on what the previous day was, rather than what the new day is.

 

[jon0844]

(Slightly off topic) - I once had a deadline set for "Friday night at 24:00" because the lecturer was so sick of "When you say midnight Friday do you mean the start or end of Friday!

Wouldn't the start of Friday still be night?! So that still doesn't make it obvious (well it does unless you're trying to be extremely pedantic!)

 

[pne]

Wouldn't the start of Friday still be night?!

I think that's usually considered "morning", e.g. "I have to get up early because I have to catch a train at 2 o'clock in the morning".

 

[jon0844]

I think that's usually considered "morning", e.g. "I have to get up early because I have to catch a train at 2 o'clock in the morning".

I know. But I was trying to that pedantic!

 

[deep south]

There is no such time as 24:00; after 23:59:59 the next second is 00:00:00 the next day.

And talking of Y2K, the consequences of not handling the "century" correctly do still cause some issues with computer systems even today; I know of at least one application that used just DD.MM.YY and went from 31.12.2014 to 01.01.1915. And for Microsoft applications, the next date after 31.12.2029 is 01.01.1930, so there are 15 years left to solve that one if the century is not used and you rely on the "default" processing...

But as is shown here, there is scope for confusion so for most public use, 00:00 & 24:00 don't exist in schedules....

 

[D6975]

There is no such time as 24:00; after 23:59:59 the next second is 00:00:00 the next day.

And talking of Y2K, the consequences of not handling the "century" correctly do still cause some issues with computer systems even today; I know of at least one application that used just DD.MM.YY and went from 31.12.2014 to 01.01.1915. And for Microsoft applications, the next date after 31.12.2029 is 01.01.1930, so there are 15 years left to solve that one if the century is not used and you rely on the "default" processing...

But as is shown here, there is scope for confusion so for most public use, 00:00 & 24:00 don't exist in schedules....

Microsoft Software uses a 100 year 'Window' for interpreting 2 digit year input. The extremes of the window can be altered fairly easily in the date/time section of the system setup. The arrival of 2030 will not be a problem.

p.s. Note that it's only when inputting in the format dd/mm/yy that it happens anyway, type it in as dd/mm/yyyy and it will take whatever date you want. Likewise if cell A1 in a spreadsheet contains 31/12/2029, typing =A1+1 in a cell will return 01/01/2030

 

[infobleep]

Microsoft Software uses a 100 year 'Window' for interpreting 2 digit year input. The extremes of the window can be altered fairly easily in the date/time section of the system setup. The arrival of 2030 will not be a problem.

p.s. Note that it's only when inputting in the format dd/mm/yy that it happens anyway, type it in as dd/mm/yyyy and it will take whatever date you want. Likewise if cell A1 in a spreadsheet contains 31/12/2029, typing =A1+1 in a cell will return 01/01/2030

Try putting in the following into the Excel spreadsheet.

Format cell A1 and A2 as date.
Into cell A1 put 01/01/1900
Now in cell A2 type =A1-1

It will return 00/01/1900.

One of the flaws of Excel, which has never been dealt with. They were only conforming to a Lotus Notes application way of doing things when Excel first came out. However you'd think they might ha e been able to fix this issue by now.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

What will happen at year 10,000??
I bet that will mess my computer up.

What does the automated voice say with 00 hours departures?
Zero-zero? Oh oh? Hundred? Or just midnight??

 

[anti-pacer]

What will happen at year 10,000??
I bet that will mess my computer up.

What does the automated voice say with 00 hours departures?
Zero-zero? Oh oh? Hundred? Or just midnight??

In the year 10,000 we'll all be dead, your computer will have self disintegrated...

...and Northern Rail will STILL be running 142's!

 

[Class 170101]

In the Year 10,000 the computers will rule the world.

 

[anti-pacer]

In the Year 10,000 the computers will rule the world.

In the year 10,000 HS2 will be almost built...

...and the North will have driverless Pacers!