• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Do tube trains ever suffer from wheelslip?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Railperf

Established Member
Joined
30 Oct 2017
Messages
2,943
I've been on Central line stock that suffered wheelslide coming into Debden southbound. The train seemed to stop short of the platform end initially and it wasn't clear whether the ATO system or driver then took it forward to the correct stopping position.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Lewlew

Member
Joined
15 Oct 2019
Messages
748
Location
London
I've been on Central line stock that suffered wheelslide coming into Debden southbound. The train seemed to stop short of the platform end initially and it wasn't clear whether the ATO system or driver then took it forward to the correct stopping position.
Would have been the driver. ATO will only ever restart between stations when stopped at a red signal/block marker board
 

Railperf

Established Member
Joined
30 Oct 2017
Messages
2,943
I've also sampled Central line running where the driver (manually driving) slightly overshot the stopping mark (not due to wheelslide) and had to manually release the doors to open.
 

Towers

Established Member
Joined
30 Aug 2021
Messages
1,682
Location
UK
I always understood that wheelslip was any form of the wheels losing grip - be it under either acceleration or under braking.

Wheelspin then refers to loss of grip under acceleration as the wheels spin faster than the speed at which the train is actually moving.

Wheelslide then refers to loss of grip under braking, where the wheels lock-up and the train effectively slides along the rails.

Is it actually possible for train wheels to slip, as opposed to slide, under braking? As in to still be turning but without gripping the railhead? I would have thought not, but I'm no scientist!
 

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,798
Location
Glasgow
Is it actually possible for train wheels to slip, as opposed to slide, under braking? As in to still be turning but without gripping the railhead? I would have thought not, but I'm no scientist!
A slip can be an act of unintentional sliding - so I think so, yes.
 

100andthirty

Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
545
Location
Milton Keynes
Is it actually possible for train wheels to slip, as opposed to slide, under braking? As in to still be turning but without gripping the railhead? I would have thought not, but I'm no scientist!
When there's poor adhesion in braking the wheels start slipping and if nothing is done, will stop and the wheels will slide. The point if wheelside protection (WSP) is to keep the wheels turning unless the adhesion is terrible. It makes the most of whatever adhesion is available, although stopping distance will be extended. Adding sand tends to improve adhesion, so sanding is triggered by the WSP to help stopping performance.
 

Towers

Established Member
Joined
30 Aug 2021
Messages
1,682
Location
UK
When there's poor adhesion in braking the wheels start slipping and if nothing is done, will stop and the wheels will slide. The point if wheelside protection (WSP) is to keep the wheels turning unless the adhesion is terrible. It makes the most of whatever adhesion is available, although stopping distance will be extended. Adding sand tends to improve adhesion, so sanding is triggered by the WSP to help stopping performance.

Indeed, but of course the "start slipping" is presumably the wheel repeatedly locking momentarily - it isn't rotating against the railhead, as it would if slipping when under acceleration - the forces are of course the wrong way around for that! E.g. a train may "slip to a stand", when failing to gain traction under acceleration, but would "slide past a signal" etc when under braking.

I'm being pedantic here I realise, but seeing as it was brought up, I would contest that "slip" is essentially wheelspin, and therefore an acceleration issue, while "slide" is a deceleration thing?

I am growing a beard and perfecting my nasal tones as I type.... :D
 

100andthirty

Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
545
Location
Milton Keynes
Indeed, but of course the "start slipping" is presumably the wheel repeatedly locking momentarily - it isn't rotating against the railhead, as it would if slipping when under acceleration - the forces are of course the wrong way around for that! E.g. a train may "slip to a stand", when failing to gain traction under acceleration, but would "slide past a signal" etc when under braking.

I'm being pedantic here I realise, but seeing as it was brought up, I would contest that "slip" is essentially wheelspin, and therefore an acceleration issue, while "slide" is a deceleration thing?

I am growing a beard and perfecting my nasal tones as I type.... :D
No, the wheel doesn't lock momentarily. There is significant potential energy in a rotating wheelset, especially if it's connected though a gearbox to a motor. Thus, a braked wheel on low adhesion takes time to stop rotating (i.e. lock) giving tome for the WSP to do its job. "Repeated momentary locking" might have been observed with primitive WSP, but not with modern systems or unless the adhesion is really bad - eg a coefficient of friction in the 0.01-0.02 range.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top