Do you prefer Avanti 390s or Avanti 221s?

[ctrspotting]

Which do you prefer I personally think 221 I wanna hear you're opinion

 

[Bletchleyite]

Voyagers have nice big windows, but there the advantages end, particularly compared to the refurbished Pendolino which, bar the slightly iffy shop, is just superb.

Had one from New St to MKC on Sunday. The platform was so thick with fug that I could barely breathe, and the stench of fumes remained inside throughout.

 

[ctrspotting]

Voyagers have nice big windows, but there the advantages end, particularly compared to the refurbished Pendolino which, bar the slightly iffy shop, is just superb.

Had one from New St to MKC on Sunday. The platform was so thick with fug that I could barely breathe, and the stench of fumes remained inside throughout.

Yeah makes sense the snack car is too small

 

[Eastern Farmer]

The voyager is the best of two bad options personally. Not keen on either but the Pendolino always used to make me feel claustrophobic. I don’t travel with Avanti anymore anyway due to being able to get a couple of dodgy experiences, trains I don’t enjoy travelling on and better service elsewhere and so haven’t had a refurbed pendolino, though I would imagine they are still as claustrophobic as ever so still goes to voyager.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not much choice here in North Wales (until the 805s arrive), but in general the Pendolinos win hands down.,
The ride is so much better, and less "fussy", even if the seat view is more limited (the new seats are also too high).
And quieter, cleaner, less vibration etc.
That's not to decry 221 capabilities, or the transformation they brought to London-Chester-Holyhead services.
There was no way their journey time to Chester could be bettered with other stock, even the new non-tilt 805s.

 

[M&NEJ]

The voyager is the best of two bad options personally. Not keen on either but the Pendolino always used to make me feel claustrophobic. I don’t travel with Avanti anymore anyway due to being able to get a couple of dodgy experiences, trains I don’t enjoy travelling on and better service elsewhere and so haven’t had a refurbed pendolino, though I would imagine they are still as claustrophobic as ever so still goes to voyager.

Before the refurbishment I would have said the 390 was the better train; but now I have to agree with you.

The refurbished 390 seats are bigger and far more restrictive of the view, to the extent that after decades of being able to tolerate the 390 environment I recently had my first genuine feeling of claustrophobia. I need to set my gaze on distant objects in order to relax, not be trapped in a grey cell! The conductor thought I looked pale and moved me to the "naughty seats" outside her office in coach C; whereupon I was able to relax.

How to use Avanti again? At this point, I don't know; unless my local ticket office stays open and I can reserve a window (yes a genuine window) seat! So-called window seats that are actually bulk-head seats surely contravene the trades descriptions act?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How to use Avanti again? At this point, I don't know; unless my local ticket office stays open and I can reserve a window (yes a genuine window) seat! So-called window seats that are actually bulk-head seats surely contravene the trades descriptions act?

While it requires knowing which seats match windows (all the priority and I think table seats do, and you may prefer these anyway) you can select a specific seat on both the Forum ticketing site/Trainsplit (same thing) and on Avanti's own site.

 

[M&NEJ]

While it requires knowing which seats match windows (all the priority and I think table seats do, and you may prefer these anyway) you can select a specific seat on both the Forum ticketing site/Trainsplit (same thing) and on Avanti's own site.

Many thanks for the suggestions, I'll try to use the Forum next time.

What do others think about the refurbished 390's big grey seats?

 

[GWVillager]

I don’t enjoy travelling on and better service elsewhere and so haven’t had a refurbed pendolino, though I would imagine they are still as claustrophobic as ever so still goes to voyager.

What do others think about the refurbished 390's big grey seats?

The refurbishment has made them considerably less relaxing to travel on, in my view. The unrefurbished sets are probably my favourite trains in Britain (the ride quality is hard to beat), but these new seats are way too tall for the 390’s narrow profile. I have also never really felt claustrophobic before, but do get it when in an airline seat on a refurbished Pendolino, especially without a window.

It’s a shame, as they did need a refurbishment, and I think it would be brilliant if applied to any other train, but interior design needs to be done differently with Pendolinos.

 

[sprinterguy]

What do others think about the refurbished 390's big grey seats?

Personally, I'm not a fan overall. I don't usually recognise the criticisms levelled at different types of seating on this forum, but in my opinion these seats are too tall and too hard, though the legroom is excellent.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What do others think about the refurbished 390's big grey seats?

They're blue other than the headrest?

They are the best UK Standard class seat I can remember ever having sat in, beating the venerable Grammer IC3000 in my book. Really like them. And really like the extra 2" or so of legroom the sensible design of the seat back provides, properly taking into account that most people with long legs are men, and most men can't sit comfortably with their knees pressed together due to the male anatomy, so the extra legroom should be at the side of the seat back, not a central niche like the badly-designed original Pendolino seat/158 seat/FISA LEAN, so you want the support in the middle. The Fainsa Sophia (for its sins) and the Class 175/180 seat also do this right.

Only thing they lack is a cup/can recess on the tray table, so these can slide about a bit on curves, and the armrests should probably be solid topped instead of the fake leather which is wearing a bit, and I'd probably (now just getting picky) prefer a grey fake-leather antimacassar piece to avoid them getting mucky from people with greasy hair as the off-white headrest probably will.

 

[Skie]

What do others think about the refurbished 390's big grey seats?

Better legroom in airline seats, but as a skinny 6footer I find them uncomfortable and awful on a long journey. If I’ve got a table seat I end up leaning forward on it a bit to give my back and legs a change.

 

[DarloRich]

the refurbished pendolino are very nice. Much better ambiance than the un refurbished ones.

 

[Bletchleyite]

the refurbished pendolino are very nice. Much better ambiance than the un refurbished ones.

Most notably they seem to be one of the few units to get lighting right. It's slightly brighter and slightly whiter than it was, meaning the feel isn't dingy, but unlike so much other stock they aren't overlit either.

There is a lot to be said for the quality of the light provided by having background indirect lighting from LED strips as well as LED spots down the aisle. It seems to be a setup that "just works". The TPE 397s and I think the 196s have that sort of setup as well and it is a lot classier and less garish than direct LED lighting as found on e.g. 195s and 197s.

 

[Sorcerer]

There's not much to it for me personally. The Pendolino, whether refurbished or not, is my favourite UK rolling stock and so therefore I prefer it to the Super Voyager. I much prefer both of them in their original Virgin liveries though to be honest. Avanti's livery is fine of course, but I just have a preference for red-based liveries seeing as it's my favourite colour.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

What do others think about the refurbished 390's big grey seats?

They're some of the best seats of any train (in standard class, I don't use first) in the country.
One of the few seats that at least decently fit taller people like myself.

 

[GWVillager]

Most notably they seem to be one of the few units to get lighting right. It's slightly brighter and slightly whiter than it was, meaning the feel isn't dingy, but unlike so much other stock they aren't overlit either.

There is a lot to be said for the quality of the light provided by having background indirect lighting from LED strips as well as LED spots down the aisle. It seems to be a setup that "just works". The TPE 397s and I think the 196s have that sort of setup as well and it is a lot classier and less garish than direct LED lighting as found on e.g. 195s and 197s.

Completely agreed, lighting makes a huge difference to ambience. This is sort of what I mean, the 390 refurbishment would be great, I just think the seats are too tall for the trains in question. But, at this point, I’ll never be satisfied! It’s nothing egregious.

 

[Trackman]

the refurbished pendolino are very nice. Much better ambiance than the un refurbished ones.

I second this.
221's are OK, I don't dislike them but I would prefer to travel on a 390

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Having experienced both (regularly travelling the entirety of the WCML from Euston to Glasgow) I prefer the Class 390s hands down.

When I've had to use 221s between Crewe and Glasgow I felt slightly claustrophobic and didn't find the engines vibrating through the carriage to pleasing either.

Class 390s I've always find suited to the role and I find very comfortable and like the aesthetics of them. The seats are comfy, the lighting is perfect (or was!). I speak of the orginal Virgin Trains interior. I've not experienced the new refurbished units just yet to have an opinion.

Just to add I travel 1st Class most of the time as I suffer from a nasty anxiety disorder, so I find it less of a sensory overload. So my experience is based off of that alone.

 

[danbarjon]

In terms of an accessibility point of view then I prefer the 390s. There always seems to be the feeling of more space in the wheelchair spaces.

 

[Lampshade]

221 pre-refurb, 390 post-refurb.

That said, I don't actually like either.

 

[Eastern Farmer]

Before the refurbishment I would have said the 390 was the better train; but now I have to agree with you.

The refurbished 390 seats are bigger and far more restrictive of the view, to the extent that after decades of being able to tolerate the 390 environment I recently had my first genuine feeling of claustrophobia. I need to set my gaze on distant objects in order to relax, not be trapped in a grey cell! The conductor thought I looked pale and moved me to the "naughty seats" outside her office in coach C; whereupon I was able to relax.

How to use Avanti again? At this point, I don't know; unless my local ticket office stays open and I can reserve a window (yes a genuine window) seat! So-called window seats that are actually bulk-head seats surely contravene the trades descriptions act?

The refurbishment has made them considerably less relaxing to travel on, in my view. The unrefurbished sets are probably my favourite trains in Britain (the ride quality is hard to beat), but these new seats are way too tall for the 390’s narrow profile. I have also never really felt claustrophobic before, but do get it when in an airline seat on a refurbished Pendolino, especially without a window.

It’s a shame, as they did need a refurbishment, and I think it would be brilliant if applied to any other train, but interior design needs to be done differently with Pendolinos.

I am surprised they could get much worse! Luckily I live on the east side of the country so have little/no need to travel on Avanti anymore. A shame as the 390s definitely have the potential, they just can’t fulfil it.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

the stench of fumes remained inside throughout.

@DarloRich ”Pooh fumes”

 

[DarloRich]

”Pooh fumes”

not on a 390 anymore It is really the XC voyager that has the problem with fumes!

 

[Wolfie]

They're blue other than the headrest?

They are the best UK Standard class seat I can remember ever having sat in, beating the venerable Grammer IC3000 in my book. Really like them. And really like the extra 2" or so of legroom the sensible design of the seat back provides, properly taking into account that most people with long legs are men, and most men can't sit comfortably with their knees pressed together due to the male anatomy, so the extra legroom should be at the side of the seat back, not a central niche like the badly-designed original Pendolino seat/158 seat/FISA LEAN, so you want the support in the middle. The Fainsa Sophia (for its sins) and the Class 175/180 seat also do this right.

Only thing they lack is a cup/can recess on the tray table, so these can slide about a bit on curves, and the armrests should probably be solid topped instead of the fake leather which is wearing a bit, and I'd probably (now just getting picky) prefer a grey fake-leather antimacassar piece to avoid them getting mucky from people with greasy hair as the off-white headrest probably will.

About where l am at.

 

[RailWonderer]

A very difficult choice, my instinct was to pick 390s - they look better and ride better without vibrations but since the refurbishment, the seats are far worse than the original seats the Voyagers still have and the Voyagers have those larger windows as well. Toilets on some Voyagers still smell but have been long rectified on the Pendolinos. Voyagers have less claustrophobic bay seating than the Pendolinos whereas the airline seats are the same. I went with Voyagers eventually but a tough choice.

Posters here who dislike the claustrophobia of the 390s will love the IETs which feel much more airy, but take a huge hit to ride quality. IETs bounce shake and wobble a lot.

 

[M&NEJ]

Posters here who dislike the claustrophobia of the 390s will love the IETs which feel much more airy, but take a huge hit to ride quality. IETs bounce shake and wobble a lot.

I can't wait! (a claustrophobe)

 

[prod_pep]

This is a difficult decision following the 390 refurbishment and those awful new seats. I'm tempted to say the Voyager has the edge now, and that's quite the role reversal.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Posters here who dislike the claustrophobia of the 390s will love the IETs which feel much more airy, but take a huge hit to ride quality. IETs bounce shake and wobble a lot.

I find the ride of 80x to be a bit hard, very Desiro like - so the feel will be similar to a 350 I reckon, just with end doors. I quite look forward to them to be honest.