Dodgy Automated Announcements

[Via Bank]

An empty Desiro once sat at Platform 6 at Woking had "OBAN via Crianlarich" on the destination displays. Someone having a bit of fun with the CIS, I suppose...

More CIS fun: at Ash Vale, the Ditra system is particularly prone to developing faults. There was one period of a couple of weeks where announcements began as normal, but Celia would invariably cut out around ten seconds before the announcement finished. This was particularly fun on the through services to Waterloo via Ascot, as it'd always end up omitting the all-important "please join the front four coaches of this train."

Then there was the (disconcerting) period where, following "the train now approaching Platform One is the xx:04 South West Trains service to Ascot," it'd say "stand well away from the edge of Platform One - the approaching train is not scheduled to stop at this station." With the xx:04 to Ascot already at the platform.

Watching people jumpily dash towards the front of the train was fun...

 

[Aictos]

ATOS Anne is dodgy on the Great Northern, she apologies for a service being 4 minutes late then seconds later announces the service as it rolls into the station - this being dodgy because a Inner/Outer Suburban service has to be running 5 or more minutes behind it's booked working to be classed as late so the system should never apologise for a 4 minute delay.

Never had this with Ditra for it's short comings.....

 

[thefab444]

this being dodgy because a Inner/Outer Suburban service has to be running 5 or more minutes behind it's booked working to be classed as late so the system should never apologise for a 4 minute delay.

That's interesting. The SWT system only announces delays of 5 minutes or more, whereas the Southern system generally announces delays of 3 minutes or more.

 

[northwichcat]

Suburban service has to be running 5 or more minutes behind it's booked working to be classed as late so the system should never apologise for a 4 minute delay.

I think you're a bit confused here. A train is classed as late if it arrives at it's final destination more than 5 or 10 minutes before the scheduled destination time, whether it's 3 or 7 minutes late at an intermediate station doesn't count.

Announcements are for the benefit of informing passengers. The likes of Virgin and XC should be informing people about 6 minute delays otherwise it wouldn't bode well in Passenger Focus surveys.

 

[Aictos]

I think you're a bit confused here. A train is classed as late if it arrives at it's final destination more than 5 or 10 minutes before the scheduled destination time, whether it's 3 or 7 minutes late at an intermediate station doesn't count.

Announcements are for the benefit of informing passengers. The likes of Virgin and XC should be informing people about 6 minute delays otherwise it wouldn't bode well in Passenger Focus surveys.

Not really, my point was the train was NEVER late but on time, the system just likes to believe it's running late.

 

[jon0844]

I am very frustrated by the number of times I get to see my train as delayed by 2-3 minutes and it comes in on time. I should add that it won't give an audible apology for delays until they're 5 minutes or more, but the screens will show the delay - and then back to on time.

It's very silly, and I've said it before - it makes FCC look worse than they are as people keep seeing 'delayed' messages and don't notice the train ran to time after all. However cheap the system was, you'd think FCC would have someone that thinks of the 'PR' damage by a system making so many mistakes.

I really can't think of any major disruption that has affected me at all so far this year, but the PIS would suggest otherwise. How stupid!

 

[Aictos]

I am very frustrated by the number of times I get to see my train as delayed by 2-3 minutes and it comes in on time. I should add that it won't give an audible apology for delays until they're 5 minutes or more, but the screens will show the delay - and then back to on time.

It's very silly, and I've said it before - it makes FCC look worse than they are as people keep seeing 'delayed' messages and don't notice the train ran to time after all. However cheap the system was, you'd think FCC would have someone that thinks of the 'PR' damage by a system making so many mistakes.

Believe me this has been noted, I hope to find a answer to this soon

 

[jon0844]

Believe me this has been noted, I hope to find a answer to this soon

Knowing the way FCC seem to do things at the moment, their solution will be to order the trains to run late to make the PIS more accurate.

 

[northwichcat]

Not really, my point was the train was NEVER late but on time, the system just likes to believe it's running late.

But you're were saying the system should never apologise for a 4 minute delay.

 

[Multiple Unit]

Now last night onboard 185149 I think it was the onboard announcment told us we will shortly arriving at Wigan NW when we where aproaching Platfrom 1. lol

 

[Sadsmileyface]

The only problems that I have experienced with PIS systems is on the 318s leaving Glasgow Central when it says "We are now approaching Paisley Gilmour Street. Change here......" despite the fact the train hasn't even left Central.

The driver hasn't set up the PIS correctly. Has to be done at the start of every journey.

 

[Aictos]

The driver hasn't set up the PIS correctly. Has to be done at the start of every journey.

Not entirely accurate, the PIS on the FCC 317s can be set up correctly for a slow Cambridge service from Kings Cross but can play the train's calling pattern in reverse at Finsbury Park for one.

I don't know if the issue has been resolved though.

 

[Sadsmileyface]

Not entirely accurate, the PIS on the FCC 317s can be set up correctly for a slow Cambridge service from Kings Cross but can play the train's calling pattern in reverse at Finsbury Park for one.

I don't know if the issue has been resolved though.

I only really know about the FSR ones. If the Driver or Conductor doesn't enter the correct optid code, or are late entering it or whatever, then you end up with blank PIS pods or no or out of sync announcements or default messages being displayed. There's a lot of trouble with the GPRS too, it's amazing that the PIS works as well as it does at all.

 

[NotScheduled]

A fun one at Arlesey today from the beloved ATOS Anne.

Arlesey has 2 platforms, Platform 1 for services to London, Platform 2 for services from London to Peterborough.

So I was quite amused when the system announced a Platform Alteration(!). Apparently the 10:23 to Peterborough would now depart from Platform 2. As it always does. Where did it think it would depart from before? Head on collision with the 10:23 Kings Cross train on Platform 1 perhaps?

The CIS made sure to keep flashing the number 2 in case anyone didn't hear the announcement...

 

[jon0844]

It would be pretty bad if it announced a head-on collision in advance!

Please stand clear of the station. Two trains are about to collide. First Capital Connect would like to apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.

Anyway, don't expect any changes. I asked on the FCC forum if they considered a single announcement to be enough (on approach) especially for the visually impaired, and they said the only need to do one to comply.. and I also asked why the volume was on about 0.1 at Hatfield for platforms 2/3 and they said they'd investigate. It sounded like they didn't know about this or any other CIS related problems reported on the same forum. The thing is, these issues have existed since the day they switched it on.

Surely they would send an engineer to each station and every platform to confirm the speakers/screens are working? At least once in the last 6-7 months??

In the past, FCC would have said 'we are aware of this, and we're waiting for xx to happen before we can do yy' and not just fob you off. They rarely had no answer, or say something like 'we'll take a look and investigate' which makes them sound like they never even venture out on to their own network.

 

[philjo]

Perhaps we need to challenge the legislation to ensure that they have to make more than one announcement to comply?
If a HST goes through Potters Bar I can't hear the announcement being played at the same time. I have good hearing & I can guess what is being said! If someone is hard of hearing & doesn't travel often they have no chance.

 

[richardjeeves]

Hi all...
if you fancy a laugh i fount this on youtube, i think a 378 had a mental breakdown...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiU4PLpfzrE

 

[jon0844]

Hi all...
if you fancy a laugh i fount this on youtube, i think a 378 had a mental breakdown...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiU4PLpfzrE

I doubt it went mental, I suspect the driver accidentally put it into a test mode and didn't know how to stop it. Certainly entertaining, but it's a shame they held the mic too close to the speaker at times - and then talked nonsense over other bits!

 

[CheekyBandit]

Mid 90's while waiting at Sheffield for my train home a Norwich train called at Mannier (which at the time I thought was the correct pronunciation of Manea) rather than Mainey. Also Southeastern 375 on train announcements calling at Beer-sted (which I don't think has been its official pronunciation).

 

[alexf380]

Also, the old and Really annoying "Annoying Annie" announcements of the North Clyde line (Scotrail). these have since been replaced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP0B2KMtyok

 

[seagull]

At Shrewsbury, with a 4-car (2 units) 158 approaching for the Cambrian Line:

"the front coach of this train will call at Welshpool, Newtown etc." "the rear coach of this train will call at Aberdovey, Tywyn etc. blah blah blah"

Even funnier when it still says it when there's a 2-car single 158 unit approaching.

Hearing Mrs Auto-Southern accent at Shrewsbury spluttering her way through the multitudinous list of Welsh names of the Central Wales, err sorry, Heart of Wales, line, and the Cambrian Coast request stops, is also good for a laugh.

And talking of request stops, how about this for a tedious auto-announcement: "anyone travelling to *request stop name*, *request stop name*, *ad nauseum*, should ask the conductor to arrange for the train to stop to allow them to alight" :roll:

 

[jon0844]

The new FCC system was in its element today.

The problem: Trains from Finsbury Park to Moorgate were cancelled, due to signalling problems.

Now one of the problems is because of the way the train tracking is done, so for a start - it was announcing at Hatfield that the Moorgate train was running late, when it was clear by looking online that it hadn't left WGC and in reality probably hadn't even come in to WGC from its last run. As the announcements apologised for the train running late, there was no reason given - but it was obvious, it hadn't set off yet.

What's more, it wasn't announced as a Moorgate train but shown as 'Finsbury Park', but with no explanation why (to be fair, there was a message on the summary departure screen saying Moorgate was closed, but with no reason given). You wouldn't find a Finsbury Park service in a timetable, and by being late too, it would (and did) confuse people.

When the train did approach about 20 minutes late, a longer announcement was made that gave some sort of explanation. It said the train was now terminating at Finsbury Park, as it was not able to proceed beyond Finsbury Park. Passengers were told to change at Finsbury Park to go beyond Finsbury Park. Somewhat obvious, and not very helpful! I forget the wording, but that was the gist.

I let the train go, and got a fast train instead which got to overtake. At Finsbury Park, the announcements there were even more stupid and inaccurate.

Trains were (and still are AFAIK) not going to Moorgate. It apologised for the cancellation of the 1057 service to Moorgate and said 'the next train will be the 1048 to Moorgate.

And, sure enough, the train was approaching. On the front of the 313 was King's Cross, so obviously it was diverted. But the announcer read it out as going to Moorgate and read out all the stations from Drayton Park, meaning some people jumped off my King's Cross train to go over and get it - assuming trains were now running again. I didn't, given it said King's Cross on the front!

What's odd is how it could get the announcement so wrong, and also why TRUST had the 1048 FPK to MOG down as being cancelled completely, even when I saw it with my own eyes and it had loads of people on it!

This was all for something as 'simple' as a signal failure, with nobody stranded on trains as far as I know. Imagine if something more serious happens, like the recent problem on SWT! The 'new' system (coming on for being a year old in September) just cannot give explanations of disruption. It's totally and utterly useless.

[rant over]

 

[philjo]

It was doing similar things at Potters Bar on Monday when the moorgate services were terminating at Alexandra Place due to the the OHLE problems at Finsbury Park - telling you to change at Alexandra Place for services beyond Alexandra palace (even though there was a Kings cross train due only a few minutes later)


Last week the announcements at Potters Bar did 2 platform alterations for the same train within about 30 seconds.

The Kings cross train was originally shown as departing from Platform 2. announcement saying platform alteration - it would now leave from platform 1.
Less than 30 seconds later it announced a platform alteration - the train would now leave from platform 2. (by which time everyone had moved to platform 1 so they all moved back to where the were originally).
The train arrived in platform 2 about a minute later.

 

[jon0844]

I think some times the system is trying to be clever, but hasn't got the necessary information and feeds to do so.

This is why the 0923 service at Hatfield is regularly shown as running late, but turns up dead on time. Annoying when you're on a bus that gets me to the station about 0923 so a delayed train is good news - then I see it leaving at 0924!

That service is often delayed through Welwyn North, but catches up. I think the timetable has a bit of padding to allow for this, as it's a known pinch point. But, the screens don't know this or take it into account - so it can quickly jump to 0928 or 0930 as it assumes the slow to Moorgate will hold it up further. When that doesn't happen, it will still show as 0928 and then arrive at 0923 as planned!

Bear in mind that a lot of people are now seeing it showing the 0927 as the next service and the only time they get to know is the single announcement made 20 seconds before arrival. Miss that announcement and you'll get people for the slow train boarding the fast one, if they don't check their watch to realise the 0927 is early!

At Finsbury Park, it's common to show the next train as a later service than the one below it. As soon as it passes the track circuit having left King's Cross, it goes back to the top.. but how has FCC/ATOS managed to set things up to assume a service leaving about 5 minutes later could EVER possibly arrive earlier?

 

[moonrakerz]

Last Friday: 1220 ex Waterloo to Bristol TM.

10 minutes before it is due to leave, we get : "Passengers for Warminster, Westbury, Trowbridge, Bradford on Avon, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads, please make your way to coaches 7, 8 and 9".
This is then repeated all the way to Salisbury - I timed the intervals between these announcements; it was repeated 5 times in 10 minutes and 30 seconds and carried on at this rate for the whole journey. I calculate that I must have heard that announcement 45.73 times - actually, that isn't strictly true, as even the electronics got hacked off with it and sometimes just spat out town names or coach numbers, with a bit of hissing and crackling in between.
If I had had a long screwdriver or other such sharp implement on me I would have done serious damage to the loudspeakers in that train.

Of course, none of the coaches were physically identified in any way - even when SWT used to do this for seat reservations, they used (apparently random) letters but still referred to the coaches by numbers. Coach "D" was always the first (or last) of a 3, 6 or 9 car train.

Just what is wrong with "front six" and "rear three", to identify coaches totally escapes me - it is used on the "up" service when it calls at a short platform at Clapham Jct.

I don't count sheep when I go to bed now - I still hear, and count, repetitions of that b****y announcement !!!

 

[thefab444]

The automated announcements on the 159s are nowhere near as reliable as on the Desiros (despite it being the same system), I remember one unit loved to repeatedly announce "Please keep your feet off the seats" every minute or so. In addition, the volume fluctuates so much that in some coaches the announcements are very loud, but in others they are inaudibly quiet.

Many of the Salisbury staff seem a bit poorly trained when it comes to the CIS, often by putting in the wrong codes, but in this case it is surely a system fault which could've easily been over-ridden by the guard from one of the cabs.

 

[WestyAds]

At Shrewsbury, with a 4-car (2 units) 158 approaching for the Cambrian Line:

"the front coach of this train will call at Welshpool, Newtown etc." "the rear coach of this train will call at Aberdovey, Tywyn etc. blah blah blah"

Even funnier when it still says it when there's a 2-car single 158 unit approaching.

They're even worse than that, I find, owing to a couple of parts of the announcement being very badly recorded. "For [...] Aberystwyth, please travel in the front coach of the train" tends to peter out towards the end, with the last few words reduced to no more than a mumble.

ATW does seem to be very erratic as to which trains it describes as "Aberystwyth and Pwllheli" and which ones are apparently for Aberystwyth only; it seems to bear very little relation to which services actually split at Machynlleth and which require passengers for the Coast Line to change there.

The announcements at Shrewsbury for the Cambrian Line really do highlight the deficiencies of the automated system in use, though, as non-regular passengers tend to get rather confused by mention of "the front coach of the train" and "the rear coach of the train" - if one doesn't know that the train reverses at Shrewsbury and that the announcements are referring to the direction of the train after it leaves the station, it's all too easy to follow the announcement's instructions straight on to the wrong part of the train. Thank goodness most of our conductors carry out a full ticket check just after Shrewsbury.

On the rare occasions that we get a manual announcement, things do get a bit clearer, as the announcers have the common sense to refer to the coaches "nearest the station building" or "furthest from the station building", which is a little less confusing, although probably not perfect.

Even more amusing, I found, was the time that we unexpectedly had three two-car units as opposed to the usual one or two, owing to a failed unit, locked out of use, being towed back to Mach, as there's clearly no facility for announcing "the middle coach of the train". So, we get "For [...] Aberystwyth, please use the front coach of the train, for [...] Pwllheli, please use the rear coach of the train. The rear coach of the train is not in use". How helpful.

Frankly, however it's phrased, I do find this particular automated voice more irritating and grating than most. The Welsh-language announcements do sound rather better, it has to be said, although with all that business of splitting trains and request stops going on in Welsh and English, it does elevate announcements to sometimes comical lengths.

 

[codenamecuebal]

The friendly automated announcement lady at Winchester likes to announce the 1025 (ex-Nottingham) to Bournemouth as being 'the service from Westerton'. This cheers me up no end.

Any other examples of iffy automated announcements?

Mark

That's about 3 miles from me.

Was it in a scottish accent?

 

[TheJRB]

Last Saturday at Ashford was quite entertaining (regarding announcements, although it got a bit annoying after a while). Almost all trains were delayed by about 30 minutes and even a service that wasn't affected was 'delayed':

"We are sorry to announce that the 15:30 Southeastern service to Victoria has been delayed by approximately 10 minutes. Southeastern apologises for the delay to your journey and any inconvenience caused."

Yet as the previous service the train worked terminated on time, it also left on this service at 15:30 on time too!

 

[causton]

The Kings cross train was originally shown as departing from Platform 2. announcement saying platform alteration - it would now leave from platform 1.
Less than 30 seconds later it announced a platform alteration - the train would now leave from platform 2. (by which time everyone had moved to platform 1 so they all moved back to where the were originally).
The train arrived in platform 2 about a minute later.

This happened in reverse (ish) the other day at Potters Bar as well -I think it's a bug as I hear it a few times when waiting for friends in the station mid-morning.

In my case it was a KGX train, which first said Platform 2, then quickly flashed up 1 on the departures screen as if it was being altered, then said platform 2 again and announced "This is a platform alteration. The xx: xx service to London King's Cross will now depart from platform 2. Platform 2 for the xx: xx service to London Kings Cross."

Then, it changed back to 1 again, this time the gentleman who always makes manual announcements did one to make sure people actually went to platform 1 instead of waiting at platform 2... as a non-stop train speeded past as the train they actually wanted arrived on platform 1.