Does anyone know what type of signalling problem occurred at Waterloo tonight [11/09]

[infobleep]

Does anyone know what the signalling issue was tonight at Waterloo?

The 18.15 Waterloo to Portsmouth, started 23 minutes late at Guildford and 18.32 Waterloo to Basingstoke started at Surbiton 7 minutes late. It was still showing as being on time about 3 minutes before it should have left Surbiton.

Interesting the 18.18 to Haslemere only left Waterloo 5 minutes late but was 12 minutes late by the time it reached Guildford. It was then held for a further 10 minutes to allow the late running 18.15 and late running 18.30 to go in front. The advantages of having a main line which doesn't run so many trains. Couldn't imagine a train being held at Surbiton for 10 minutes to let another through.

What made it unusual tonight was that most other trains before and after seemed to be departing places like Woking with only 3-4 minute delays. The 18.23 to Basingstoke, which left Surbiton 7 minutes late, seemed to lose sometime at West London Junction so I don't know if there were problems there.

 

[hassaanhc]

Does anyone know what the signalling issue was tonight at Waterloo?

The 18.15 Waterloo to Portsmouth, started 23 minutes late at Guildford and 18.32 Waterloo to Basingstoke started at Surbiton 7 minutes late. It was still showing as being on time about 3 minutes before it should have left Surbiton.

Interesting the 18.18 to Haslemere only left Waterloo 5 minutes late but was 12 minutes late by the time it reached Guildford. It was then held for a further 10 minutes to allow the late running 18.15 and late running 18.30 to go in front. The advantages of having a main line which doesn't run so many trains. Couldn't imagine a train being held at Surbiton for 10 minutes to let another through.

What made it unusual tonight was that most other trains before and after seemed to be departing places like Woking with only 3-4 minute delays. The 18.23 to Basingstoke, which left Surbiton 7 minutes late, seemed to lose sometime at West London Junction so I don't know if there were problems there.

The 1818 Haslemere had a passenger dispute on board, namely, three people not folding their foldable cycles and something kicked off.
Platform 9 at Waterloo was out of commission, no idea about exact issues.

 

[Top Cat]

A points failure which is being worked on tonight. If S&T had taken a line block at the time the points failed it would also have taken out platforms 8 & 10 which could have caused considerably more disruption during the evening peak.

 

[infobleep]

Thanks for the info. That explains why so few trains were affected badly and I didn't notice anything on National Rail Enquiries about it.

Surprised it kicked off regarding the folding cycles. Not difficult to fold them. Wonder if tonight's issue was it's due to the effects of the recent review into cycles by SWT. SWT said they would be instructing their staff to enforce the cycle policy from now on. Every so often I see non folding cycles on the trains when they shouldn't be there.

Wouldn't have expected non-folding cycles to cause an issue. People are idiots. Was the issue at Guildford itself? If so perhaps the train wasn't held for other trains but just so they could deal with the idiots.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Not only do they not enforce the non folding bike issue on trains I have seen staff activly encouraging the practice by opening the wide gates to let people through with bikes.

 

[infobleep]

Not only do they not enforce the non folding bike issue on trains I have seen staff activly encouraging the practice by opening the wide gates to let people through with bikes.

Well that is all changing according to South West Trains. Staff will no longer be letting bikes through. If they are then they may need training. Will be interesting to see what happens in practice.

It felt that the review was never going to end but it did.

 

[sbt]

Surprised it kicked off regarding the folding cycles. Not difficult to fold them.

I travel on trains in that area at that time almost every day. There are a number of 'Token Folders' who use the trains, taking a folding bike on but only folding one hinge, leaving it almost as much of an obstruction as a non-folder.

There are a number of people in 'commuter-land' who feel very strongly that rules made for other people do not apply to them. In the past they were the people who left doors hanging open, or swung them back into the face of the passenger leaving the train behind them.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I've slung numerous cyclists off with non folding bikes. The main problem stations are from Surbiton onwards, as sbt has quite correctly stated they think that the rules do not apply to them, trouble trains in the AM peaks from Guildford are the 0803, 0815 & 0833.

In the evening it's just about anything that stops at all the local stations on the mainline from 1650 - 1850 Inc.
IMO it's high time to start charging for them or fining them for non compliance.

 

[infobleep]

How about a penalty charge notice. After all they issue then when you don't have a ticket and they suspect you of making a mistake.

If they suspect it's not a mistake but something deliberately flouting the rules then they can take them to court and prosecute them. Perhaps the last part is a bit much but I do think they should be treated the same as those without tickets.

 

[Kite159]

I travel on trains in that area at that time almost every day. There are a number of 'Token Folders' who use the trains, taking a folding bike on but only folding one hinge, leaving it almost as much of an obstruction as a non-folder.

There are a number of people in 'commuter-land' who feel very strongly that rules made for other people do not apply to them. In the past they were the people who left doors hanging open, or swung them back into the face of the passenger leaving the train behind them.

Also known as the passengers who quite kindly press the door close button on a 159 at Woking ignoring the passengers trying to get off after them or wanting to get on.

The doors on a 159 are slow at the best of times (and at the worst of times thrown hissy fits and refuse to close).

 

[infobleep]

Where are the S&T maintenance teams based who'd deal with issues at Waterloo?

Would they cover a wider area than such the permanent way team or are they part of them?

 

[carriageline]

Possibly Waterloo but I don't know. Normally, the S&T and pway teams are based at and cover the same areas. The S&T normally have dedicated maintenance and fault teams


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Where are the S&T maintenance teams based who'd deal with issues at Waterloo?

Would they cover a wider area than such the permanent way team or are they part of them?

Generally in the portacabins overlooking the station throat, so they can be found quite quickly and on the scene of the problem very quickly as well.

 

[TEW]

Not only do they not enforce the non folding bike issue on trains I have seen staff activly encouraging the practice by opening the wide gates to let people through with bikes.

It can be very difficult to police the cycle ban on the gates because often cyclists can claim they are catching a service without cycle restrictions.

 

[infobleep]

Unless I'm mistaken, there are no evening services during the banned time from Waterloo that allow bicycles. They could flout it in the morning from stations south of Guildford though. Some stations don't even have barriers.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Unless I'm mistaken, there are no evening services during the banned time from Waterloo that allow bicycles. They could flout it in the morning from stations south of Guildford though. Some stations don't even have barriers.

The restrictions only apply up to Guildford, you are not meant to board at Guildford going to stations south there of. Nor are you allowed to go to all stations between Waterloo & Alton, Basingstoke, Dorking or anywhere on the Windsor side during the peaks, but do you think it's enforced? Of course not.

You need to charge for them, because they take the space of 3 passengers in standing room, so by rights they should pay a 33% surcharge for the bike in addition to the passengers fare.

 

[infobleep]

The restrictions only apply up to Guildford, you are not meant to board at Guildford going to stations south there of. Nor are you allowed to go to all stations between Waterloo & Alton, Basingstoke, Dorking or anywhere on the Windsor side during the peaks, but do you think it's enforced? Of course not.

You need to charge for them, because they take the space of 3 passengers in standing room, so by rights they should pay a 33% surcharge for the bike in addition to the passengers fare.

No it's not enforced but South West Trains say going forward it will be. So we need to give South West Trains time to inform and possible train their staff to enforce it.

I guess a year should be long enough or perhaps it should last as long as the consultation. Not sure how long that lasted but felt like it was never ending.

If after that period things don't change then you'd have reason to complain I guess.

 

[455driver]

So you think the guards have got enough time to enforce the bike ban do you?
You wont mind the 10 minute delay which will occur while the guard tries to convince some selfish <deleted> that they have to get off the train with their bike will you?
You will stick up for the guards and SWT when its plastered all over the papers about the 'little Hitlers enforcing silly ban' etc will you?

Delays have to be kept to a minimum and enforcing this ban simply isnt going to happen (on the trains), now if they are going to stop them getting on the platforms at Waterloo with their non foldings bikes (where are the cycle storage areas again?) then they will have half a chance, but it aint gorna happen anytime soon because people want all the rules enforced as long as it doesnt delay them!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

And that's why I have suggested that if you want to take a bike on the train, you pay a 33% surcharge on top of your ticket, it'll be a good deterrent to most.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

So you think the guards have got enough time to enforce the bike ban do you?
You wont mind the 10 minute delay which will occur while the guard tries to convince some selfish <deleted> that they have to get off the train with their bike will you?
You will stick up for the guards and SWT when its plastered all over the papers about the 'little Hitlers enforcing silly ban' etc will you?

Delays have to be kept to a minimum and enforcing this ban simply isnt going to happen (on the trains), now if they are going to stop them getting on the platforms at Waterloo with their non foldings bikes (where are the cycle storage areas again?) then they will have half a chance, but it aint gorna happen anytime soon because people want all the rules enforced as long as it doesnt delay them!

I don't think it is the guards job, as to be fair it is impossible for them to patrol a packed train. However I expect barrier staff at stations to stop people with bikes accessing the platforms. On the Windsor lines the ban operates in both directions so the passengers cannot claim to be going the other way.

 

[infobleep]

So you think the guards have got enough time to enforce the bike ban do you?
You wont mind the 10 minute delay which will occur while the guard tries to convince some selfish that they have to get off the train with their bike will you?
You will stick up for the guards and SWT when its plastered all over the papers about the 'little Hitlers enforcing silly ban' etc will you?

Delays have to be kept to a minimum and enforcing this ban simply isnt going to happen (on the trains), now if they are going to stop them getting on the platforms at Waterloo with their non foldings bikes (where are the cycle storage areas again?) then they will have half a chance, but it aint gorna happen anytime soon because people want all the rules enforced as long as it doesnt delay them!

It's actually at Waterloo it needs to be enforced. It needs to be dealt with at the barriers. SWT say they wish to enforce the policy, not me. They could have decided to get rid of it.

I wonder how many trains get delayed due to fare evasion? I don't actually know the answer. It may be none.

A SWT service from Portsmouth Harbour was once delayed because a member of platform staff came on board to tell me I wasn't allowed to take photos. I needed permission from the station manager first. Should he have delayed the train to tell me that? Will he did. It wasn't a massive delay but a delay none the less. The train guard wasn't aware I couldn't take photos either.

Turns out the member of platform staff was wrong, I could take photos. Either that or stuff I've read in newspapers and on here is wrong. At the time I didn't raise the matter with SWT.

 

[455driver]

So platform/gateline staff are to prevent people accessing the platforms with non-folding bikes, do you know where the main cycle storage areas are at Waterloo? On the platforms so how is that going to work?

 

[infobleep]

So platform/gateline staff are to prevent people accessing the platforms with non-folding bikes, do you know where the main cycle storage areas are at Waterloo? On the platforms so how is that going to work?

I hasn't realised that. Well some South West Trains staff will have to figure that one out as I didn't make up the rules, they did and after the review someone or some people working there decided the rules need to be enforced.

Unless or course they have no intention of enforcing them despite saying they are going to of course.

Alternatively they, as in those who approved the reviews outcomes might have an intention to enforce it but the staff on the ground might actually not enforce as they are to busy doing other things.

I don't actually know. I only know what I read in a letter to my local MP from Tim Shoveller, the area manager at South West Trains. I don't have the letter to hand right now.

 

[infobleep]

Very timely, given the discussions on here, but the 8.02 from Basingstoke had 2 non folding bicycles on it. Then a passenger from Woking got on with a bike. Now I think from pass experience, one of them gets off before Surbiton, which is where it starts to get fairly busy.

And then usually two got off and another joined. She moaned that recently a bloke was sitting in the bike area seats and wouldn't move despite lots of others being free. I decided best not join the discussion but I was thinking if it was in the morning you should be grateful you've got on board. Just as I would be grateful if I was allowed on a different service with an advanced purchase ticket due to my own mistake.

 

[cjp]

I hasn't realised that. Well some South West Trains staff will have to figure that one out as I didn't make up the rules, they did and after the review someone or some people working there decided the rules need to be enforced.

Unless or course they have no intention of enforcing them despite saying they are going to of course.

Alternatively they, as in those who approved the reviews outcomes might have an intention to enforce it but the staff on the ground might actually not enforce as they are to busy doing other things.

I don't actually know. I only know what I read in a letter to my local MP from Tim Shoveller, the area manager at South West Trains. I don't have the letter to hand right now.

Where can I find the review results.?

I have to admit I have been on a SWT banned train for bikes and, with a normal service, there have been seats when I got on and seats when I got off and a bike would not be a problem. Mind you where I got off it went from civilised to being full and standing in seconds.
The trouble is TOCs have adopted a simplistic one size fits all poilicy which suits them and if they chose to it would be simple to police. However guards have common sense about such matters and, save the jobs worth, where there are still spare seats I do not think they would argue it was busy train, you are breaking a rule so get off.
This morning the train arrived full and left fuller still simply because it was running late and collecting those extra people who would usually be on the next train - probably even a folding bike would be unwelcome. Although if passengers thought to put their bags in the luggage racks everyone could have more room.

 

[infobleep]

I don't know if the review findings were made public. I just got a paragraph sent to my local MP, who circulated it round to constituents who had previously contacted them.

I've been on trains where people are standing due to bikes but all the people this morning got off before it was too busy.

Guards are sensible. Could SWT as a whole be sensible? Would it actually be possible to create a flexible policy for peak rush hour?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Simple solution.

NO Bikes carried anywhere, other than folding ones between the hours of:

0600 - 1000 & 1600 - 2000.

Outside of those hours a bike surcharge of 33% on top of your fare (which would compensate for the amount of space taken which is ~3 seats) minimum fare £10, penalty fares apply for non compliance £20 or double the owners fare.

All services are compulsory reservation.

All cycles to be labelled with owners details, no label, no transit (Don't like it? Well, you've got wheels, use them!). And may I point out that was the ruling under BR and the number of bikes that were barred for non compliance was more then than now.