Does Ticket cover for Manchester metro?

[northernrail2009]

I have booked a Advance Ticket with FTP from Manchester to York tomorrow sunday and as there are works on the Line they are going from Man Vic not Man Picc so wanted to know does that ticket cover me to use the Metro to get from Man Picc to Vic?

When i looked up the times online it gave the times with the metro as well.

 

[175001]

No, you'll have to buy a single which is 90p IIRC.

Only tickets that cover the Tram are MANCHESTER CTLZ and Rail Rangers, on top of the Train and Tram ticket

 

[northernrail2009]

No, you'll have to buy a single which is 90p IIRC.

Only tickets that cover the Tram are MANCHESTER CTLZ and Rail Rangers, on top of the Train and Tram ticket

Many thanks for that.

How long do you think it takes to walk from Man Picc to Man Vic?

 

[Lampshade]

Many thanks for that.

How long do you think it takes to walk from Man Picc to Man Vic?

It takes me 8 minutes to sprint it, it's a reasonable 20 minute walk.

 

[TAG Manchester]

Many thanks for that.

How long do you think it takes to walk from Man Picc to Man Vic?

The free shuttle buses will get you there, albeit a little round the houses.

The number 1 or 3 both link with the 2 on Deansgate, the 2 drops you right outside Victoria; the 1 will drop you on King St which is about half the walking distance than from Piccadilly, the 1 will also (after a scenic route) drop you at Marks & Spencers, less than 5 mins walking distance.

Wont save you much, if anyting, on time (vs walking - the 20 minutes already suggested is about right) but will help if carrying luggage.

 

[gnolife]

Tickets that state route "Metrolink (GM)" are valid by Metrolink as well, but that stands to reason

and the 3 doesnt stop at M&S, it goes via Quay street, Spinningfields and Princess St

 

[Greenback]

If the free buses run on Sundays I would definitely use them! They weren't all running on Good Friday this year IIRC.

 

[Olympian]

No, you'll have to buy a single which is 90p IIRC.

Only tickets that cover the Tram are MANCHESTER CTLZ and Rail Rangers, on top of the Train and Tram ticket

That's my understanding too, and I know this has been discussed several times previously, but all the rail booking engines still give itineraries that include Metrolink between Piccadilly and Victoria, are presented in the same way as for travel on London Underground, and make absolutely no mention of the ticket not being valid on Metrolink.

Example is Manchester Piccadilly to York tomorrow, probably very similar to what the OP saw:

Journey: MANCHESTER PICCADILLY to YORK £23.40 Journey DetailsOutward - Sunday 25th September 2011 Depart Arrive Seating Travel by
13:38Manchester Piccadilly 14:05Manchester Victoria n/a Metro
14:05Manchester Victoria 15:41York Coach A, Seat 25A (Aisle) Transpennine Express

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25 September 2011

Manchester Piccadilly To York

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Ticket details ANYTIME DAY SINGLE £23.40 1 Adult(s) Full Fare @ £23.40
This ticket allows travel on any permitted route.
Flexible ticket with no time restrictions on when you can travel.
Journey price £23.40

Outward journey25 Sep 2011
Depart:
Manchester Piccadilly
Metro

Please check operating hours for this servicemore info .Change at:
Manchester Victoria dep. 14:05.
Arrive:
York, 15:41

Changes: 1 Duration: 2h 3m

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Passengers
1 Adult

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anytime Day Single£23.40

valid via: Via Any Permitted Route

Valid on all services by the route and Train Operator shown. Valid 1 day only.

By coincidence I've bought a ticket online for Monday from Crewe to Manchester Victoria and, although the ticket is printed Crewe to Manchester Stations, my booking confirmation includes Metrolink between Piccadilly and Victoria.

So, despite my booking confirmation, I'm supposed to somehow know that my ticket isn't actually valid for the itinerary it's given me?! I wonder how many passengers have been caught out by this and charged the "standard fare" on Metrolink despite buying a rail ticket that supposedly covers travel on it according to their itinerary?

Will this error ever be corrected?

 

[snail]

So, despite my booking confirmation, I'm supposed to somehow know that my ticket isn't actually valid for the itinerary it's given me?!

The National Rail journey planner gives a warning:

Train tickets validity on Metrolink services.
Train tickets may not be valid on some Metrolink services and an additional fare may be payable for the Metrolink part of the journey.

I would be surprised if you hadn't received a similar message somewhere in the booking process.

@NorthernRail2009: One thing you haven't told us is why you want to travel from Piccadilly? Are you getting there by train or some other way?

 

[tony_mac]

I would be surprised if you hadn't received a similar message somewhere in the booking process.

You don't; NationalRail only put their message up quite recently after they were nagged about it.

 

[Olympian]

The National Rail journey planner gives a warning:

I would be surprised if you hadn't received a similar message somewhere in the booking process.

I've seen the warning on NRE, and even that's surprisingly ambiguous for a supposedly definitive source - "may not be valid", "some Metrolink services" and "may be payable". Surely an unambiguous and correct warning could be displayed based on the actual journey being displayed. Are there any other comparative journeys disaplyed on NRE where an itinerary includes a journey leg on another mode of transport on which the rail ticket isn't actually valid?

I've also repeated the booking process for my Crewe - Mancheste Victoria journey on Monday and there's no message that I can see at any stage saying that my ticket won't be valid on Metrolink. Also there's no mention of this on my actual booking confirmation email from East Coast.

 

[Mr Spock]

I've seen the warning on NRE, and even that's surprisingly ambiguous for a supposedly definitive source - "may not be valid", "some Metrolink services" and "may be payable". Surely an unambiguous and correct warning could be displayed based on the actual journey being displayed. Are there any other comparative journeys disaplyed on NRE where an itinerary includes a journey leg on another mode of transport on which the rail ticket isn't actually valid?

I've also repeated the booking process for my Crewe - Mancheste Victoria journey on Monday and there's no message that I can see at any stage saying that my ticket won't be valid on Metrolink. Also there's no mention of this on my actual booking confirmation email from East Coast.

If you click on the "i" or the status icon you will receive the message about Metrolink. There is also a message on the page with the times that says that Virgin only offer fares to Piccadilly but Northern offer fares to Oxford Road, Piccadilly or Victoria - this is alongside the "Buy" button.

 

[185]

This was a cause of chaos on many a Sunday.

-Useless FTPE are mostly to blame for not providing a suitable method of travel for customers travelling from say, Yorkshire to Stoke.

-Metrolink added insult to injury last time by sending hoardes of APSRs (Revenue Inspectors) into the city to hammer trams for penalty fares.

It was always an embarrasment to arrive at Man Vic and have to announce "the quickest method of travel across to Piccadilly is by tram, costing 70 pence".

GMPTE, Metrolink, Notwork Fail, and TinPot Express are all to blame here. There really needs to be an easement for National Rail tickets. I wish Metrolink was made a TOC and fully integrated into National Rail ticketing.

 

[Olympian]

If you click on the "i" or the status icon you will receive the message about Metrolink. There is also a message on the page with the times that says that Virgin only offer fares to Piccadilly but Northern offer fares to Oxford Road, Piccadilly or Victoria - this is alongside the "Buy" button.

Yes I know how to get the message on NRE, and exactly the same ambiguous message is displayed for journeys wholly within Greater Manchester where the ticket is valid on Metrolink eg Bolton to Manchester Piccadilly via Victoria.

The message about "Fare information" on NRE appears to purely list who prices fares for the journey being displayed and doesn't really help define whether a ticket is valid on Metrolink or not.

There's nothing similar to either of these messages on East Coast.

 

[Lampshade]

They should follow London and make some tickets +MANCHESTER to allow for Metrolink use.

That said, people do have the option of changing at Salford Crescent.

 

[gnolife]

They should follow London and make some tickets +MANCHESTER to allow for Metrolink use.

That said, people do have the option of changing at Salford Crescent.

Is Salford Crescent always allowed for say (for example) Manchester Airpt. to Littleborough, or Birchwood to Mossley Mancr?

 

[Lampshade]

Is Salford Crescent always allowed for say (for example) Manchester Airpt. to Littleborough, or Birchwood to Mossley Mancr?

I believe so.

 

[snail]

Is Salford Crescent always allowed for say (for example) Manchester Airpt. to Littleborough, or Birchwood to Mossley Mancr?

Yes, it's part of the Manchester Stations routeing group and doubling back via Salford Crescent to swap city centre stations is provided for via an easement.

 

[northernrail2009]

The National Rail journey planner gives a warning:

I would be surprised if you hadn't received a similar message somewhere in the booking process.

@NorthernRail2009: One thing you haven't told us is why you want to travel from Piccadilly? Are you getting there by train or some other way?

I am getting the train from Macclesfield to Picc and then got a Advance single from Manchester to York.

 

[TAG Manchester]

If the free buses run on Sundays I would definitely use them! They weren't all running on Good Friday this year IIRC.

The 1 & 2 run on Sundays and public hols:
http://www.tfgm.com/buses/metroshuttle.cfm

 

[John @ home]

I am getting the train from Macclesfield to Picc and then got a Advance single from Manchester to York.

Then your "journey" is from Macclesfield to York, your combination of tickets "cover the whole of your journey" and it is permitted for you to use this combination to travel via Salford Crescent but not via Metrolink. See National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Then your "journey" is from Macclesfield to York, your combination of tickets "cover the whole of your journey" and it is permitted for you to use this combination to travel via Salford Crescent but not via Metrolink. See National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

Does a ticket to or from Manchester Stations cover the route between Piccadilly and Victoria? That's the first I have heard of it!

 

[gnolife]

Condition 19 is what John's getting at here, I think
northernrail2009 is splitting tickets at the Manchester stations therefore he is covered for his entire journey, which , in this case involves going Picc-Vic via Salford Crescent. Thats the way I interpret this anyway, so may or may not be accurate.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Condition 19 allows you to make a journey with a combination of tickets provided the entire journey is covered by them. It does not make any tickets valid for a journey that it would otherwise not be valid for.

If I had a Salisbury-London Terminals ticket and a London Terminals-York ticket, could I use the Underground to cross London for free purely because I have two tickets to go from Salisbury to York? No, I couldn't.

So unless a ticket is valid via Salford Crescent, the entire journey is not valid via Salford Crescent.

 

[Olympian]

Does a ticket to or from Manchester Stations cover the route between Piccadilly and Victoria? That's the first I have heard of it!

According to the booking engines, yes, either by rail via Salford Crescent or by Metrolink. Some direct TP services between Piccadilly and Victoria today.
Validity on Metrolink subject to discussion above as the booking engines are apparently all incorrect.

It's not the same as London, perhaps the difference is "Stations" as the destination for Manchester rather than "Terminals" in London?

 

[John @ home]

Does a ticket to or from Manchester Stations cover the route between Piccadilly and Victoria?

The journey is not to and from Manchester Stations. The journey is from Macclesfield to York, using a combination of tickets in accordance with NRCoC 19. In these circumstances, NRG Instructions page 6 gives a passenger the right to travel via any station in Manchester Group. The list of Group Stations tells us that Manchester Piccadilly, Salford Crescent and Manchester Victoria are all members of Manchester Group.

 

[yorkie]

I am getting the train from Macclesfield to Picc and then got a Advance single from Manchester to York.

What ticket (s) do you plan to use for Macclesfield - Manchester?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The journey is not to and from Manchester Stations. The journey is from Macclesfield to York, using a combination of tickets in accordance with NRCoC 19....

Condition 19 says that you can use two tickets to make a longer journey provided the tickets cover the entire journey being made.

If I have tickets from Manchester to Newton-le-Willows and Newton-le-Willows to Liverpool and my journey is Manchester to Liverpool, I can't get an EMT train between Manchester and Liverpool via Warrington, because the entire journey is not covered by my tickets! But what you seem to be saying is that because my journey is Manchester-Liverpool I should be fine because the Routeing Guide (and hence the NRCoC) says Manchester-Liverpool via Warrington is fine. You're talking rubbish I'm afraid!

....In these circumstances, NRG Instructions page 6 gives a passenger the right to travel via any station in Manchester Group....

Page 6? So that'll be group stations then?

GROUP STATIONS
Some stations are grouped together to improve interchange between trains
by offering customers access to a wider choice of train services and station
facilities. A customer may travel via any station in such a group, including
doubling back, provided that the group is on one of the permitted routes
between their origin and destination stations. This extended availability is for
interchange purposes only and does not apply where the origin or destination
stations are part of a group.

The origin and/or destination of the ticket(s) is/are Manchester Stations which is within Manchester Group. So you cannot go via Salford Crescent because Salford Crescent is within Manchester Group!

The Routeing Guide applies to tickets, not journeys.

In your opinion, if you had a ticket from London to Norwich and another from Norwich to Peterborough, could you catch a train From Kings Cross direct to Peterborough without buying another ticket?

 

[OwlMan]

If he has a "Virgin Only" (the cheapest from Macclesfield) ticket it will not be valid to Victoria

 

[Lampshade]

The origin and/or destination of the ticket(s) is/are Manchester Stations which is within Manchester Group. So you cannot go via Salford Crescent because Salford Crescent is within Manchester Group!

Yes you can, for instance I've bought a Manchester - Stalybridge return from Oxford Road, caught the Northern service back to Victoria and gone via Salford Crescent to get back to Oxford Road; this has been accepted by guards and barrier staff alike.

If he has a "Virgin Only" (the cheapest from Macclesfield) ticket it will not be valid to Victoria

I concur.