Doncaster Sheffield Airport to reopen?

[Parjon]

If a private company can take over an airport, close it down, refuse to sell it to someone else as an airport, and subsequently flog it off as land for housing, it is entirely the government's fault and responsibility.

It appears harder to close a train station than an airport.

It's a national security nonsense that this can be allowed to happen without having to apply to the government for special permission, with a presumption of a big fat No without overwhelming evidence of necessity of closure.

In this case it's been a low numbers airport, but who is to say where next.

City infrastructure quite literally dismantled and liquidated for short term profit extraction.

 

[westv]

None, its not accepting public bookings. It's being used to house asylum seekers and has been for a good few months now

I have now read that the hotel has remained closed to bookings since March 20. As it's the only on site hotel, that couldn't have helped matters either even if only a little.

 

[Iskra]

You have Aer Lingus and Virgin Atlantic from Manchester....

I recently flew that Aer Lingus flight and got a row to myself and I'd say 20-30 seats were empty. I was very happy about the situation, but I don't think the accountants will have been...

I have now read that the hotel has remained closed to bookings since March 20. As it's the only on site hotel, that couldn't have helped matters either even if only a little.

Agreed, I looked to stay their before my October flight, in order to use public transport work in terms of getting there.

 

[Killingworth]

I have now read that the hotel has remained closed to bookings since March 20. As it's the only on site hotel, that couldn't have helped matters either even if only a little.

The hotel will have been little used by airport users so an alternative income stream will have been gratefully taken. Feeder buses were little used so services were withdrawn.

Large sums of public money were put into the link road. More money has been spent on plans for an ECML diversion to the airport.

Gradually it has been realised that without massive further support flights from DSA can't be financially viable. Peel's biggest faulti is that they ever thought it could fly as a commercial airport - and then convinced so many that it could.

The combination of Brexit and Covid has effectively scuppered any slim chance of success. The example of Teesside doesn't encourage further support.

 

[Lost property]

DSA could, and should, have become a prominent regional airport with the number of advantages it has. LBA is noted for inclement weather and the location is hardly conducive to runway extension. Sheffield Airport was severely restricted as to types that could be operated from the location and again, had restricted runway length. DSA benefitted from its previous incarnation as RAF Finningley in terms of space and runway.

If anybody wants to buy a Vulcan, plus hangar, now's your once in a lifetime opportunity because the aircraft won't be flying out of DSA due to some very complex airworthiness issues.

 

[Cloud Strife]

LBA is noted for inclement weather and the location is hardly conducive to runway extension.

Does it really need an extension? 2250m should be enough for most missions from a regional airport, and Liverpool is only slightly longer at 2285m. Both airports can handle fully loaded 737/A320s going to tourist islands (Madeira/Cyprus), so what more do they realistically need? With the LBA-Funchal flights, they also have to have enough fuel to divert to the Canary Islands if needs be and yet the runway is still adequate.

 

[Neptune]

Does it really need an extension? 2250m should be enough for most missions from a regional airport, and Liverpool is only slightly longer at 2285m. Both airports can handle fully loaded 737/A320s going to tourist islands (Madeira/Cyprus), so what more do they realistically need? With the LBA-Funchal flights, they also have to have enough fuel to divert to the Canary Islands if needs be and yet the runway is still adequate.

In the not too distant past LBA handled regular flights using 747’s with ease. The weather costs very few issues. I’ve taken off/landed in fog plenty of times. It’s just the usual anti-LBA lobby in full swing and finding any reason to rubbish a very decent regional airport.

 

[cactustwirly]

In the not too distant past LBA handled regular flights using 747’s with ease. The weather costs very few issues. I’ve taken off/landed in fog plenty of times. It’s just the usual anti-LBA lobby in full swing and finding any reason to rubbish a very decent regional airport.

It's a non issue, I don't see there being the need for LBA to handle 747s anymore.

 

[Neptune]

It's a non issue, I don't see there being the need for LBA to handle 747s anymore.

Precisely. But it goes to show that the runway is long enough despite what people want to think.

 

[Lost property]

In the not too distant past LBA handled regular flights using 747’s with ease. The weather costs very few issues. I’ve taken off/landed in fog plenty of times. It’s just the usual anti-LBA lobby in full swing and finding any reason to rubbish a very decent regional airport.

Fog isn't the issue at LBA...it's the wind speed / direction that is and always has been. As for runway length, even with now improved performance, the longer the better will always apply. LBA has improved, didn't have much choice in fact, but it will never become what it aspires to be even though it is classed as a regional airport.

 

[Neptune]

Fog isn't the issue at LBA...it's the wind speed / direction that is and always has been.

Can you tell me how many flights have been cancelled due to the weather in say the last 10 years at LBA? The way people talk on here it‘s made to sound like cancellations at LBA due to the weather is a weekly occurrence.

As for runway length, even with now improved performance, the longer the better will always apply.

It is long enough for its needs.

LBA has improved, didn't have much choice in fact, but it will never become what it aspires to be even though it is classed as a regional airport.

So what does it aspire to be? It’s absolutely fine for the mixture of flights it caters for and has in the past proved that it can take more flights using larger planes.

To the many millions of us who rely on it it’s perfectly fine. The mixture of flights to European cities and holiday destinations is absolutely fine and we can even connect into longer distance flights easily via Heathrow or Paris or Amsterdam. We obviously aren’t put off by those ‘issues’ that the haters love to reel out time after time.

 

[Iskra]

Can you tell me how many flights have been cancelled due to the weather in say the last 10 years at LBA? The way people talk on here it‘s made to sound like cancellations at LBA due to the weather is a weekly occurrence.

It is long enough for its needs.

So what does it aspire to be? It’s absolutely fine for the mixture of flights it caters for and has in the past proved that it can take more flights using larger planes.

To the many millions of us who rely on it it’s perfectly fine. The mixture of flights to European cities and holiday destinations is absolutely fine and we can even connect into longer distance flights easily via Heathrow or Paris or Amsterdam. We obviously aren’t put off by those ‘issues’ that the haters love to reel out time after time.

The flights don't get cancelled, they get diverted to East Midlands or Newcastle from experience.

I'm also no fan of LBA, but mainly because of its accessibility.

 

[william.martin]

Answer to title - already has

 

[tbtc]

Large sums of public money were put into the link road. More money has been spent on plans for an ECML diversion to the airport.

Gradually it has been realised that without massive further support flights from DSA can't be financially viable. Peel's biggest faulti is that they ever thought it could fly as a commercial airport - and then convinced so many that it could

No argument from me about the huge public sector subsidies that have been wasted trying to prop up Peel’s business - the plan was always for them to take all of the profits but get any losses paid for by the public sector - and no doubt that Peel would be free to find alternative uses for the land once it happened to have a link road and train station for services to London and Leeds

I just question the idea that Park ever thought it could fit as a commercial airport, I don’t think that they ever believed it had a long term future as a commercial airport, just that keeping it open for a few years would be a great way of sucking lots of subsidies out of government whilst the infrastructure was upgraded

They’re a bit like the dodgy blokes who used to be directors at football clubs which went into administration (in the era before the “fit and proper people” tests, which seemed to have weeded them out)
- failed businessmen who seemingly had the reverse Midas touch, the club seeing its assets stripped and stadium/ car parks sold to other companies whilst on the pitch they faced a points deduction for the inevitable administration caused by being so badly run… then the same guys would turn up at a new club the next season and you’d fear for the supporters of that team (better not mention any names for legal reasons though!)

As for better airport location, LBA’s location isn’t great, some distance from a suitable train station (and also the height difference from the nearest Harrogate Line station seems to preclude any “spur”), the wrong side of Leeds/ Bradford for most of the larger places in Yorkshire…

…but it’s close to the moneyed areas like Harrogate / Ilkley and (most importantly) it’s the established airport in the region, so it’ll continue to be busy for decades to come - any hopes of DSA usurping it are pointless

in hindsight we shouldn’t really have been encouraging the boom in “local” airports where councils pumped large sums into the equivalent of “putting Sheffield on the map”

(if we’d known the austerity to come then the idea of some of the sins that councils spent propping up “local” airports pre-Cameron seem even more obscene!)

But, we couldn’t just accept a situation where northern England had airports at Newcastle/ Leeds/ Manchester/ Liverpool (with public transport connections for East Midlands/ Luton/ Heathrow/ Gatwick etc) we had to ensure that Tees Valley/ Humberside/ Sheffield/ Doncaster Sheffield/ Blackpool etc all got one too, even though it wasn’t like a “free city centre bus” (which I mention as it was another thing that councils found the money to subsidise in the 2000s), spreading the air demand between twice as many airports means you lose the economies of scale

I’m not a huge fan of LBA but don’t particularly dislike it either (disclaimer, I used to go there once a year for the certification required to be a Fire Marshall, getting to play with powerful hoses in training areas away from the public was fun!) - it does its job - its efficient enough at processing passengers - you don’t need to fall in love with a business to find it convenient to use - the AztecBird buses up there offered something different to the Leeds bus scene at the time - but there’s no point in South Yorkshire people hoping that LBA was ever going to close because of the facilities at DSA (which, for a start, is the wiring side of Doncaster for pretty much all of Yorkshire!)

Maybe, in hindsight, we should have built a “Yorkshire” airport somewhere closer to the M62 (failing that, M1 or A1(M)) - plenty of flat land east of Leeds/Wakefield - I think someone on here explained to me that there was a former RAF base in that neck of the woods that sounded perfect, but I don’t have the details to hand. HOWEVER, we’re stuck with the sites we now have, I don’t think it’s realistic to talk of resiting LBA (I’m only saying that, in hindsight, if we assume that the airport serves an area east of the Pennines/ between the Tees to the north and the East Midlands to the south (i.e. Yorkshire… or the land not served do readily by airports at Newcastle/Manchester/East Midlands) then it’s not a great location in terms of nearest motorway/ dedicated train station etc, making people drive through the already congested single carriageway roads coming north out of Leeds and Bradford… given the combined populations of Wakefield/ Huddersfield/ Sheffield etc against places north of the airport like Harrogate/ Ilkley/ Skipton/ Ripon… too late to change anything now though

 

[Bantamzen]

DSA could, and should, have become a prominent regional airport with the number of advantages it has. LBA is noted for inclement weather and the location is hardly conducive to runway extension. Sheffield Airport was severely restricted as to types that could be operated from the location and again, had restricted runway length. DSA benefitted from its previous incarnation as RAF Finningley in terms of space and runway.

If anybody wants to buy a Vulcan, plus hangar, now's your once in a lifetime opportunity because the aircraft won't be flying out of DSA due to some very complex airworthiness issues.

It sounds to me that you are suggesting LBA should have been closed in favour of Doncaster. I would suggest to you that the respective fortunes of both say quite the opposite. If anything it seems that such a move would have killed off both. As for the runway length, what were you expecting to see? The current airlines at LBA are quite happy using mainly 737 and A320 variants, and the long haul carriers using heavies are perfectly happy with Manchester.

@tbtc The airport east of Leeds you mention was the former RAF Church Fenton, now known as Leeds East (even though it's in North Yorkshire). Its owners, plus a couple of Leeds councillors had a short lived aspiration to develop the field into a replacement LBA, along with it's own motorway and HS2 spur. It was for obvious reasons quickly kicked into touch. And whilst the flatlands along the rivers headed east from Leeds might seem like an ideal spot for a new airfield, the land is far from great in terms of drainage which will likely add a lot of cost to what would already be a lot of cost. Floodplains are not the best places to build anything, let alone brand new airports.

It is worth mentioning however that there is some speculation over on Forums4Airports from people plugged into the aviation industry in the area that work on the approved 2019 terminal extension may start soon. This along with the arrival of Wizz from DSA might just prompt another look at proposals for a better road link, which are currently on hold.

 

[tbtc]

@tbtc The airport east of Leeds you mention was the former RAF Church Fenton, now known as Leeds East (even though it's in North Yorkshire). Its owners, plus a couple of Leeds councillors had a short lived aspiration to develop the field into a replacement LBA, along with it's own motorway and HS2 spur. It was for obvious reasons quickly kicked into touch. And whilst the flatlands along the rivers headed east from Leeds might seem like an ideal spot for a new airfield, the land is far from great in terms of drainage which will likely add a lot of cost to what would already be a lot of cost. Floodplains are not the best places to build anything, let alone brand new airports.

Ah, thanks! I used to live/work in West Yorkshire but don’t know that side of Leeds very well, glad I didn’t guess at somewhere as I’d never have remembered Church Fenton!

There are obvious drawbacks, as you point out - but then the thing that means LBA will never flood is also a reason why it’ll never have motorways/ trains either

All hypothetical, I can’t see Leeds Bradford ever closing (or being overtaken by any airport anywhere East of Manchester), love them or hate them we are stuck with imperfectly sited airports in the way that we are stuck with imperfectly sited railway stations in city centres like Bristol/ Leicester etc, too late to change anything

 

[Cloud Strife]

we had to ensure that Tees Valley/ Humberside/ Sheffield/ Doncaster Sheffield/ Blackpool etc all got one too

There was/is some logic to Humberside, because it was/is an important route for oil/gas traffic. I believe that the key difference with Humberside over DSA is that Humberside is owned by Eastern Airlines, so they know how to manage it properly rather than going bankrupt trying to attract LCC flights.

Sheffield, DSA, Blackpool and Tees Valley on the other hand made very little sense.

 

[AlterEgo]

There was/is some logic to Humberside, because it was/is an important route for oil/gas traffic. I believe that the key difference with Humberside over DSA is that Humberside is owned by Eastern Airlines, so they know how to manage it properly rather than going bankrupt trying to attract LCC flights.

Sheffield, DSA, Blackpool and Tees Valley on the other hand made very little sense.

Humberside makes all its money from the helicopters to the rigs, it is extremely lucrative and a good example of an important airport serving a valuable niche. Unlike DSA, whose main job was to occupy a vast swathe of development land which should have been turned over to housing or industry when Finningley closed, and serving cheap flights which could very easily be flown from a number of good airports close by. LBA was mentioned upthread; a solid smaller airport which has no pretence, even if the public transport to it sucks.

 

[Cloud Strife]

and serving cheap flights which could very easily be flown from a number of good airports close by.

I think, in hindsight, the DSA experiment was fair enough. At the time, Ryanair were flying to all manner of random shacks, and the prediction was that the LLC model would lead to flights like Doncaster-Lappeenranta being normalised. It didn't turn out that way, but there was definitely a moment back during Ryanair's first big expansion (when they ripped off Boeing completely) that the airlines were falling over themselves to fly between random shacks.

I do wonder if the economics would be different if we could somehow go back to a lighter form of airport security. The current situation where you need to turn up ridiculously early in most airports (even at ones like Humberside) just because of endless interminable security delays is really a problem for these smaller airports.

 

[pug1]

Humberside makes all its money from the helicopters to the rigs, it is extremely lucrative and a good example of an important airport serving a valuable niche. Unlike DSA, whose main job was to occupy a vast swathe of development land which should have been turned over to housing or industry when Finningley closed, and serving cheap flights which could very easily be flown from a number of good airports close by. LBA was mentioned upthread; a solid smaller airport which has no pretence, even if the public transport to it sucks.

New here, so hello everyone.

I have to say having read this thread that it’s one of the more sensible threads I’ve seen on the subject - including some aviation forums! So I hope people don’t mind me adding my 2p worth.

Humberside - my local. I’ve watched it go from one of the fastest growing regional airports in the U.K. for a number of consecutive years, to become a bit of a backwater. This happened due to the operating of DSA and compounded by the financial crisis of 2007/8 which was a period of consolidation (and collapse) in the airline/tour operator sector. In 2005 and 2006, Thomson and Thomas Cook had a not insignificant number of year round destinations on offer from Humberside, including the use of 767 aircraft on flights to Palma and Dalaman, this was alongside Doncaster having been opened. In 2006 Excel based a 737 at Humberside, it was to become two in 2007, but financial trouble meant they scaled back their plans and sadly Humberside was dropped from their schedules. It was rumoured at the time that owners MAG actually had an offer from Jet2 but went in favour of Excel, but that cannot be verified. Ryanair have twice operated from Humberside, once to Dublin daily (in direct competition with their flight from Doncaster) and despite actually doing reasonably well, the flights attracted nowhere near enough passengers to sustain the daily frequency. They pulled Dublin to Doncaster shortly after too. In the last few years the airport has been under the ownership of Eastern Group, then Bristow. Now currently owned by Bristow, has KLM and Eastern as the only scheduled operators and TUI and Balkan Holidays run a much reduced schedule in the summer.

Doncaster….. Well it was approved at Public Enquiry by John Prescott, who admitted it wasn’t needed but ‘it’s investment in the area’. Ironically it qualified for significant EU Objective One funding. Ironic because Objective One funding was only available to areas of relative poverty, not really an ideal place to put an airport I would argue. That said, Peel had high hopes for it, they believed they could replicate the success of Liverpool east of the Pennines, itself successful because of the low cost boom and the willingness of those airlines to fly from peripheral secondary airports to cut costs. Sadly, by 2005 the major airports had widened up to this, Leeds had Jet2, East Midlands has secured a Ryanair base and Easyjet operated form Manchester and East Midlands. In its 17 year history, despite significant subsidies and financial incentives offered to airlines, only TUI and Wizzair managed to carve out a suitable market for themselves from Doncaster. EasyJet left after a few months due to insufficient support. Ryanair left and ended up setting up large bases at Leeds and East Midlands (which must have been a kick in the teeth to Peel) and Jet2 and KLM remained ambivalent to the existence of Doncaster.

So, what we have now is a closed airport that really was a gamble by Peel (who probably knew they could recoup their sunk costs by redeveloping the land if it didn’t work out) and one which is enjoying being a profitable business away from the bloodbath that is passenger aviation in the U.K.

Will a new buyer reopen Doncaster? Who knows, but if not I hope Humberside management are watching closely, as it is now the closest airport for almost 2 million people.

 

[Killingworth]

New here, so hello everyone.

I have to say having read this thread that it’s one of the more sensible threads I’ve seen on the subject - including some aviation forums! So I hope people don’t mind me adding my 2p worth.

Humberside - my local. I’ve watched it go from one of the fastest growing regional airports in the U.K. for a number of consecutive years, to become a bit of a backwater. This happened due to the operating of DSA and compounded by the financial crisis of 2007/8 which was a period of consolidation (and collapse) in the airline/tour operator sector. In 2005 and 2006, Thomson and Thomas Cook had a not insignificant number of year round destinations on offer from Humberside, including the use of 767 aircraft on flights to Palma and Dalaman, this was alongside Doncaster having been opened. In 2006 Excel based a 737 at Humberside, it was to become two in 2007, but financial trouble meant they scaled back their plans and sadly Humberside was dropped from their schedules. It was rumoured at the time that owners MAG actually had an offer from Jet2 but went in favour of Excel, but that cannot be verified. Ryanair have twice operated from Humberside, once to Dublin daily (in direct competition with their flight from Doncaster) and despite actually doing reasonably well, the flights attracted nowhere near enough passengers to sustain the daily frequency. They pulled Dublin to Doncaster shortly after too. In the last few years the airport has been under the ownership of Eastern Group, then Bristow. Now currently owned by Bristow, has KLM and Eastern as the only scheduled operators and TUI and Balkan Holidays run a much reduced schedule in the summer.

Doncaster….. Well it was approved at Public Enquiry by John Prescott, who admitted it wasn’t needed but ‘it’s investment in the area’. Ironically it qualified for significant EU Objective One funding. Ironic because Objective One funding was only available to areas of relative poverty, not really an ideal place to put an airport I would argue. That said, Peel had high hopes for it, they believed they could replicate the success of Liverpool east of the Pennines, itself successful because of the low cost boom and the willingness of those airlines to fly from peripheral secondary airports to cut costs. Sadly, by 2005 the major airports had widened up to this, Leeds had Jet2, East Midlands has secured a Ryanair base and Easyjet operated form Manchester and East Midlands. In its 17 year history, despite significant subsidies and financial incentives offered to airlines, only TUI and Wizzair managed to carve out a suitable market for themselves from Doncaster. EasyJet left after a few months due to insufficient support. Ryanair left and ended up setting up large bases at Leeds and East Midlands (which must have been a kick in the teeth to Peel) and Jet2 and KLM remained ambivalent to the existence of Doncaster.

So, what we have now is a closed airport that really was a gamble by Peel (who probably knew they could recoup their sunk costs by redeveloping the land if it didn’t work out) and one which is enjoying being a profitable business away from the bloodbath that is passenger aviation in the U.K.

Will a new buyer reopen Doncaster? Who knows, but if not I hope Humberside management are watching closely, as it is now the closest airport for almost 2 million people.

Good to hear about Humberside. It certainly was busier before DSA arrived on the scene. On my son's first day working for Smith & Nephew in Hull in 1997 he was off on a KLM flight to Amsterdam and was flying to Paris and elsewhere fairly often - once having to return via Aberdeen having missed his scheduled direct flight, but still got home on the same day!

I suspect Humberside may find DSA's demise rather a blessing. With TPE's current performance on South Pennine for Manchester Airport there'll be another incentive to hook into the Amsterdam hub. What's more I've just checked fare prices to Amsterdam from Manchester and Humberside and Humberside is often quite a lot cheaper.

 

[pug1]

Good to hear about Humberside. It certainly was busier before DSA arrived on the scene. On my son's first day working for Smith & Nephew in Hull in 1997 he was off on a KLM flight to Amsterdam and was flying to Paris and elsewhere fairly often - once having to return via Aberdeen having missed his scheduled direct flight, but still got home on the same day!

I suspect Humberside may find DSA's demise rather a blessing. With TPE's current performance on South Pennine for Manchester Airport there'll be another incentive to hook into the Amsterdam hub.

We can hope. I’m watching what happens at Doncaster with great interest, as it may not be over yet.

Problem at Humberside currently is that it is in a position to return a small profit to its shareholders. It’s largely built around offshore oil and gas (and renewables), and has what I believe to be the distinction of having two onsite hotels, rare for an airport if it’s size. BAe Systems have a large academy on site training the next generation of aircraft engineers. Eastern Airways still have their main hq at the airport. Bristow Search and Rescue helicopters are based there. It just needs to reclaim the holiday business it lost to Doncaster. However, costs of hosting such flights is significantly more than they were in 2005, so it might be that they leave well alone, at least whilst the airport is owned by Bristows anyway.

 

[Killingworth]

We can hope. I’m watching what happens at Doncaster with great interest, as it may not be over yet.

Problem at Humberside currently is that it is in a position to return a small profit to its shareholders. It’s largely built around offshore oil and gas (and renewables), and has what I believe to be the distinction of having two onsite hotels, rare for an airport if it’s size. BAe Systems have a large academy on site training the next generation of aircraft engineers. Eastern Airways still have their main hq at the airport. Bristow Search and Rescue helicopters are based there. It just needs to reclaim the holiday business it lost to Doncaster. However, costs of hosting such flights is significantly more than they were in 2005, so it might be that they leave well alone, at least whilst the airport is owned by Bristows anyway.

KLM currently offer one or 2 flights every day to Amsterdam which is a short hop and a good global hub. They say they may increase to 3 flights a day 7 days a week if demand is there.

I live at the South-west end of Sheffield and by road Humberside is as quick to reach as Manchester.

 

[edwin_m]

Attracting low-cost airline is all about charging them low fees. An airport with few flights has relatively high costs per flight, and little retail revenue to offset them, so will be unable to offer low fees unless subsidised.

 

[pug1]

Attracting low-cost airline is all about charging them low fees. An airport with few flights has relatively high costs per flight, and little retail revenue to offset them, so will be unable to offer low fees unless subsidised.

That is in essence the issue here. Peel over estimated the level of demand at Teesside and Doncaster. Their reasons for closing, namely the inability to attain critical mass, is correct. To build a sustainable, profitable business in the airport sector when dealing with low-cost airlines, you need a much increased footfall to break even. So really what you need to do is offer very low/no fees and/or offer significant financial incentives to attract airlines, in return you need those airlines to attract enough passengers to generate sufficient ancillary revenue streams (car parking, retail) to make it pay. Of course development land also falls within this, that is the one thing I have suspicions over Peel about, as it’s not clear which part of the overall Finningley land bank is actually incorporated into Doncaster Sheffield Airport Ltd.

Sadly, despite the facility being second to none, the airlines that have tried to establish themselves there and when looking at the likes of easyJet, passenger demand didn’t deliver. I’m hoping a new owner gets a shot at it, but I don’t see how they will change this fundamental problem. For Doncaster to work, at least Leeds or East Midlands would have to close.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Peel over estimated the level of demand at Teesside and Doncaster. Their reasons for closing, namely the inability to attain critical mass, is correct. To build a sustainable, profitable business in the airport sector when dealing with low-cost airlines, you need a much increased footfall to break even.

This is pretty much it.

Bristol has become a very important regional airport by doing this, but crucially Bristol doesn't have any local competition. Peel have had moderate success at Liverpool with a similar operating model, although Liverpool already had established links from as long ago as the 50s and is closely attached to a very large city, and even then the place is like a ghost town in winter.

DSA is miles out of both Doncaster and Sheffield, has LBA and East Midlands as close neighbours, and had no established links at all. Teesside, likewise.

Maybe, in hindsight, we should have built a “Yorkshire” airport somewhere closer to the M62 (failing that, M1 or A1(M)) - plenty of flat land east of Leeds/Wakefield

I'm also no fan of LBA, but mainly because of its accessibility.

This keeps getting repeated, as though LBA is in the middle of nowhere served by a dirt track.

LBA doesn't have fast roads to it from the south because it is right in the urban area. But from my parents' house near Halifax its a 30-45 minute drive to LBA, maybe 45-60 in peak time. It's a bit more annoying to get to from south of Leeds because you have to go through Leeds or round the ring road. From the north, though, it's about 20 minutes off the A1(M) and is handy for Harrogate and York.

As for public transport, it doesn't have a train but nor does Bristol or Liverpool. But as most people drive to airports anyway...

 

[pug1]

This is pretty much it. Bristol has become a very important regional airport by doing this, but crucially Bristol doesn't have any local competition. Peel have had moderate success at Liverpool with a similar operating model, although Liverpool already had established links from as long ago as the 50s and is closely attached to a very large city, and even then the place is like a ghost town in winter. DSA is miles out of both Doncaster and Sheffield, has LBA and East Midlands as close neighbours, and had no established links at all. Teesside, likewise. This keeps getting repeated, as though LBA is in the middle of nowhere served by a dirt track. LBA doesn't have fast roads to it from the south because it is right in the urban area. But from my parents' house near Halifax its a 30-45 minute drive to LBA, maybe 45-60 in peak time. It's a bit more annoying to get to from south of Leeds because you have to go through Leeds or round the ring road. From the north, though, it's about 20 minutes off the A1(M) and is handy for Harrogate and York. As for public transport, it doesn't have a train but nor does Bristol or Liverpool. But as most people drive to airports anyway...

This is pretty much it. Bristol has become a very important regional airport by doing this, but crucially Bristol doesn't have any local competition. Peel have had moderate success at Liverpool with a similar operating model, although Liverpool already had established links from as long ago as the 50s and is closely attached to a very large city, and even then the place is like a ghost town in winter. DSA is miles out of both Doncaster and Sheffield, has LBA and East Midlands as close neighbours, and had no established links at all. Teesside, likewise. This keeps getting repeated, as though LBA is in the middle of nowhere served by a dirt track. LBA doesn't have fast roads to it from the south because it is right in the urban area. But from my parents' house near Halifax its a 30-45 minute drive to LBA, maybe 45-60 in peak time. It's a bit more annoying to get to from south of Leeds because you have to go through Leeds or round the ring road. From the north, though, it's about 20 minutes off the A1(M) and is handy for Harrogate and York. As for public transport, it doesn't have a train but nor does Bristol or Liverpool. But as most people drive to airports anyway...

This is pretty much it. Bristol has become a very important regional airport by doing this, but crucially Bristol doesn't have any local competition. Peel have had moderate success at Liverpool with a similar operating model, although Liverpool already had established links from as long ago as the 50s and is closely attached to a very large city, and even then the place is like a ghost town in winter. DSA is miles out of both Doncaster and Sheffield, has LBA and East Midlands as close neighbours, and had no established links at all. Teesside, likewise. This keeps getting repeated, as though LBA is in the middle of nowhere served by a dirt track. LBA doesn't have fast roads to it from the south because it is right in the urban area. But from my parents' house near Halifax its a 30-45 minute drive to LBA, maybe 45-60 in peak time. It's a bit more annoying to get to from south of Leeds because you have to go through Leeds or round the ring road. From the north, though, it's about 20 minutes off the A1(M) and is handy for Harrogate and York. As for public transport, it doesn't have a train but nor does Bristol or Liverpool. But as most people drive to airports anyway...

Correct, LBA is less than ideally located, but it’s a fairly large immediate catchment area and so airlines can be more confident that any flights they put on will be supported.

Same cannot be said for DSA unfortunately. Just a shame they can’t uproot it and plonk is somewhere near Barnsley and just off the M1.

 

[daodao]

@thejuggler

The thread title should be changed as the airport has now closed, almost certainly for ever.

 

[Killingworth]

Correct, LBA is less than ideally located, but it’s a fairly large immediate catchment area and so airlines can be more confident that any flights they put on will be supported.

Same cannot be said for DSA unfortunately. Just a shame they can’t uproot it and plonk is somewhere near Barnsley and just off the M1.

And Humberside will be able to recover traffic from places like Doncaster towards the coast. For the last few years it hasn't had the critical mass to compete with such a well funded neighbour.

Where that funding came from and whether it was ever going to be good value for money is another story. We'll never know for sure how much, and opinions will differ, but Brexit, Covid and the war in Ukraine have all been unhelpful.

 

[westv]

TUI seemed to operate successfully from Doncaster so I wonder why others failed.