Doors failed to open at Waterloo (1A20)

[Edsmith]

I was on a train with a similar issue. At Waterloo the guard shut the doors, gave the signal and the driver went to take power and train died.

Guard could not reopen doors and PA would not function. Took about 15 minutes to resolve including completely switching it off leaving a full and standing train illuminated by a few emergency lights. If I recall correctly, even these went out for a bit.
In that case, everyone just shrugged and waited. No one was bothered. I was in the front coach and you could see up platform 15 to see it was the whole train.

That's a bit different, people are on the train wanting to go somewhere and probably anticipated just a few minutes delay but if the train has pulled into the station and people just want to get off I'm surprised nobody took it upon themselves to use the emergency door release.

 

[Chris M]

That's a bit different, people are on the train wanting to go somewhere and probably anticipated just a few minutes delay but if the train has pulled into the station and people just want to get off I'm surprised nobody took it upon themselves to use the emergency door release.

This is exactly the same as what happens regarding self-detrainment outside of stations - every passenger who is physically capable of doing so will self detrain at some point. The only things the railway can do is to either (a) get them to their destination before that point, or detrain them in a proper manner before that point. There are many factors that influence what that point is, but the most relevant one for this situation is that passengers will not self-detrain if they believe it that remaining on the train will get them to their destination quicker and easier than finding an alternative route would. This means that the railway has much longer before passengers self-detrain on departure than arrival - note for example that all the trains from which passengers seld-detrained at Lewisham a few years ago were those approaching the station.

More generally, passengers who believe they are being kept informed will wait much longer before self-detraining than those who believe otherwise - this means that announcements that convey, relevant, useful information in an honest and non-patronising manner will give the railway longer (sometimes significantly longer) to resolve the issue than either no or bad announcements.

 

[Runningaround]

More generally, passengers who believe they are being kept informed will wait much longer before self-detraining than those who believe otherwise - this means that announcements that convey, relevant, useful information in an honest and non-patronising manner will give the railway longer (sometimes significantly longer) to resolve the issue than either no or bad announcements.

This is where the railway needs to communicate effectively, as it is 90% of announcements are just background noise to ignore.
At what point do you take action to release yourself at a safe place like the train at a platform?
5 - 10mins if nothings been announced and train isn't moving?
3 - 5mins if doors don't open and train moves off without anyone saying why?
10 - 15 min if staff say why you are stuck and it will be resolved soon?
Instantly if you spot an incident and need to exit ASAP?
If staff say ''we cannot operate the doors use the release handle on the platform side''.

There will be enough passengers onboard who'll be listening out for ''important information'' that can be trusted to open the doors themselves if its the instruction and will be helping the one who may try to open and exit the wrong one side.

 

[Edsmith]

This is exactly the same as what happens regarding self-detrainment outside of stations - every passenger who is physically capable of doing so will self detrain at some point. The only things the railway can do is to either (a) get them to their destination before that point, or detrain them in a proper manner before that point. There are many factors that influence what that point is, but the most relevant one for this situation is that passengers will not self-detrain if they believe it that remaining on the train will get them to their destination quicker and easier than finding an alternative route would. This means that the railway has much longer before passengers self-detrain on departure than arrival - note for example that all the trains from which passengers seld-detrained at Lewisham a few years ago were those approaching the station.

More generally, passengers who believe they are being kept informed will wait much longer before self-detraining than those who believe otherwise - this means that announcements that convey, relevant, useful information in an honest and non-patronising manner will give the railway longer (sometimes significantly longer) to resolve the issue than either no or bad announcements.

Self detrainment outside of stations is obviously different but whenever I've experienced any delays with doors opening at stations there's been an announcement that doors will open shortly etc and if passengers are not kept informed they're likely to take their own course of action.

 

[Krokodil]

Assuming of course that the PA is working in a failure scenario.

 

[guilbert]

Something similar happened to me some years ago on a busy 365 at King's Cross. After about a minute there was a slightly stroppy announcement from the driver acknowledging the problem but rather non-committal about how much longer it would be. After about another minute there was a very stroppy announcement saying someone had pulled the egress and it would now take much longer to release the other doors. At that point somebody in my carriage used the emergency release and we all got off, I think the same happened elsewhere.

I do find the contrast in attitude between railway staff and everyone else on these sorts of thread interesting.

 

[Lucan]

The big difference with slam doors is that you had to lean out of the window to operate the handle

Not with all stock. Most (all?) the slam door stock on the ex-Southern suburban lines had internal handles.

 

[Krokodil]

Not with all stock. Most (all?) the slam door stock on the ex-Southern suburban lines had internal handles.

I've seen the internal clasp things on DMMUs (you need a strong grip for those) but was only familiar with CIGs from the Southern. Needless to say, the old days are not an example of best practice where safety is concerned.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Something similar happened to me some years ago on a busy 365 at King's Cross. After about a minute there was a slightly stroppy announcement from the driver acknowledging the problem but rather non-committal about how much longer it would be. After about another minute there was a very stroppy announcement saying someone had pulled the egress and it would now take much longer to release the other doors. At that point somebody in my carriage used the emergency release and we all got off, I think the same happened elsewhere.

I do find the contrast in attitude between railway staff and everyone else on these sorts of thread interesting.

Sounds like it ma have been their last train of the day, usually the one which goes t*ts up!

Totally agree though, the right tone to an announcement can make a huge difference to the outcome.