Double deckers on HS2

[Mgameing123]

Hi guys, I just realised that since HS2 is going to be built using European loading gauge, doesn’t that mean we could run double decker trains on HS2?

 

[AM9]

Yes we could, but there would be no value in a marginal increase in route capacity which would prevent level boarding and requir modification to all station platforms along the line
Average passenger journey times would also increase by a small amount.

 

[MatthewHutton]

Also seems unlikely that even if HS2 is extended to Crewe that it won’t use the legacy tracks after that.

Perhaps maybe also the Picc-Vic tunnel will be done.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes we could, but there would be no value in a marginal increase in route capacity which would prevent level boarding and requir modification to all station platforms along the line
Average passenger journey times would also increase by a small amount.

Double decker stock doesn’t necessarily preclude level boarding.

 

[Snow1964]

The original plan was two batches of trains, the first batch (already ordered) to current uk gauge so they can continue off the line to Manchester, Glasgow etc.

Then a second batch for once the line was completed to Manchester which would be high capacity trains, probably double deck, which would take over the core services, freeing the others for more destinations eg the then proposed Eastern branch with services to Yorkshire etc

There was recently a question of using double deck TGV style trains on the Channel tunnel services, there is currently a compliance question of level boarding, ramps and lifts due to the 300mm above rail lower floor height, vs 550mm or 760mm standard platform heights. Link is quite a detailed article with diagrams and photos to explain it (probably needs to be viewed on big screen by those with sight issues)

The accessibility problems with Alstom's new TGV-M train - with implications for future Channel Tunnel operators - #CrossBorderRail

There is no way to sweeten this: my original conclusion that Alstom’s Avelia Horizon (known as TGV-M with SNCF) is not legal at higher station platforms outside France was incorrect. Because transparency and correcting my errors matters to me, you can read the original blog entry in full here – […]

crossborderrail.trainsforeurope.eu

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Alstom have done great things with their Double Deck TGVs but do bear in mind that even 'Continental' loading gauge has limitations: yes, you can comfortably stand up on both decks but they are still somewhat cramped and the toilets particularly so. The incremental seat numbers do come up at a cost.

The various Swiss double deck trains are probably the most comfortable to travel in and have wide doors and reasonably good level boarding. Their seat capacity is only marginally higher than those of an IEP in practice (although the door/saloon entry widths into the C800s are very constrained and lead to slower boarding than SBB manage).

Obviously, where HS2 trains run 'off-route', eg. to anywhere in the NW and Scotland Double Decks are non-runners.

If the Continental loading gauge was about 25cm larger in both width and height that would have been brilliant (see eg Finland!)

 

[Mgameing123]

Alstom have done great things with their Double Deck TGVs but do bear in mind that even 'Continental' loading gauge has limitations: yes, you can comfortably stand up on both decks but they are still somewhat cramped and the toilets particularly so. The incremental seat numbers do come up at a cost.

The various Swiss double deck trains are probably the most comfortable to travel in and have wide doors and reasonably good level boarding. Their seat capacity is only marginally higher than those of an IEP in practice (although the door/saloon entry widths into the C800s are very constrained and lead to slower boarding than SBB manage).

Obviously, where HS2 trains run 'off-route', eg. to anywhere in the NW and Scotland Double Decks are non-runners.

If the Continental loading gauge was about 25cm larger in both width and height that would have been brilliant (see eg Finland!)

The IEP also has TERRIBLE seats that are crammed together meanwhile the Swiss might be focusing more on comfort so that can explain quite a bit.

 

[stuu]

The IEP also has TERRIBLE seats that are crammed together meanwhile the Swiss might be focusing more on comfort so that can explain quite a bit.

They have terrible seats but they are absolutely not crammed together, they have more legroom in airline seats than anything else I'm aware of (GWR ones anyway, never been on any of the other variants)

 

[zwk500]

Hi guys, I just realised that since HS2 is going to be built using European loading gauge, doesn’t that mean we could run double decker trains on HS2?

AIUI the HS2 platforms will not be UIC gauge compliant in either height or distance from the rail to provide level boarding with UK gauge ("classic-compatible") trains. So double-deckers would still face a lower deck width restriction.

 

[stuu]

AIUI the HS2 platforms will not be UIC gauge compliant in either height or distance from the rail to provide level boarding with UK gauge ("classic-compatible") trains. So double-deckers would still face a lower deck width restriction.

I would hope they have had the sense to design them so they can be easily adjusted later, with gap fillers fitted to platforms for classic compatible stock

 

[zwk500]

I would hope they have had the sense to design them so they can be easily adjusted later, with gap fillers fitted to platforms for classic compatible stock

Given the likelihood of captive HS2 stock ever running now, I don't think it'd make too much difference.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The IEP also has TERRIBLE seats that are crammed together meanwhile the Swiss might be focusing more on comfort so that can explain quite a bit.

I agree the seats are terrible but the legroom is excellent, in part as a result of the seats being quite thin.

 

[NCT]

Aren't the HS2 full height platforms just 760mm EU-standard platforms 'extruded upwards'? Lower sector gauge clearance shouldn't be an issue surely?

 

[Yew]

AIUI the HS2 platforms will not be UIC gauge compliant in either height or distance from the rail to provide level boarding with UK gauge ("classic-compatible") trains. So double-deckers would still face a lower deck width restriction.

Isn't this a problem that has already been solved, for the Class3 373 with their folding steps?