Double flashing lights at Merstham station. Normal?

[NaZzAtAzEr]

Merstham station going south has a signal at the end of the platform, and most of the time both orange lights are flashing (after going through red and orange static).

What does this mean and is it uncommon?

 

[headshot119]

Merstham station going south has a signal at the end of the platform, and most of the time both orange lights are flashing (after going through red and orange static).

What does this mean and is it uncommon?

There's no such aspect as orange or amber on the railways, only yellow.

Double flashing yellow will be followed by a single flashing yellow, followed by a steady yellow with a route set over a junction with a lower speed than the main route.

They're not exactly rare, but not hugely common either.

 

[Bromley boy]

Merstham station going south has a signal at the end of the platform, and most of the time both orange lights are flashing (after going through red and orange static).

What does this mean and is it uncommon?

Very common.

It’s an indication to the driver that, at a forthcoming complex junction, they will be taking the highest speed diverging route and will be followed with: single flashing yellow; single solid yellow with junction indicator; red (although the solid yellow willl likely step up to green on approach).

 

[NaZzAtAzEr]

Double flashing yellow will be followed by a single flashing yellow

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't go onto a single flashing yellow, and I've watched it quite frequently.

forthcoming complex junction

Redhill station is just down the line, wouldn't that signal be better at Redhill?

 

[Bromley boy]

There's no such aspect as orange or amber on the railways, only yellow.

Very true.

Woe betide anybody using the word “amber” on a rules course.

 

[Bromley boy]

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't go onto a single flashing yellow, and I've watched it quite frequently.

Trust me, it will do (as in the next signal, possibly out of your view, will be single flashing yellow, and so on).

Redhill station is just down the line, wouldn't that signal be better at Redhill?

Layout of signals is dependent on the location of junctions and linespeed, rather than location of stations (as not all trains stop at all stations).

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't go onto a single flashing yellow, and I've watched it quite frequently...

The earlier post meant while that specific signal is a double flashing yellow the next signal along the route will be a flashing single yellow.

 

[transmanche]

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't go onto a single flashing yellow, and I've watched it quite frequently.

I think headshot119 means that the next signal down the line (the next signal that the driver will see after passing the signal at Merstham station) will be a single flashing yellow.

Redhill station is just down the line, wouldn't that signal be better at Redhill?

The double flashing yellow is an advance warning, well before the junction in question.

 

[hexagon789]

Very true.

Woe betide anybody using the word “amber” on a rules course.

To be pedantic there's no such thing as a yellow aspect either, yellow is the colour but the aspect is a cautionary aspect

 

[Bromley boy]

To be pedantic there's no such thing as a yellow aspect either, yellow is the colour but the aspect is a cautionary aspect

To be even more pedantic. Are you sure about that?!

 

[hexagon789]

To be even more pedantic. Are you sure about that?!

View attachment 45254

Well that's what I was told by a former driver on another forum who corrected my use of "green aspect" by saying that green is the colour but it's a 'proceed' aspect just as yellow would be the colour but a 'cautionary' aspect. Unless the terminology has changed?

 

[Bromley boy]

Well that's what I was told by a former driver on another forum who corrected my use of "green aspect" by saying that green is the colour but it's a 'proceed' aspect just as yellow would be the colour but a 'cautionary' aspect. Unless the terminology has changed?

He’s talking out of his arris (I say that as a current driver).

A yellow/cautionary aspect is also a proceed aspect.

The rulebook also talks in terms of green, yellow, red aspects etc.

“Yellow aspect” is not a term anyone would misunderstand or query unlike “amber aspect”, “flashing ambers”, which would never be used and would raise a few eyebrows!

 

[snowball]

I've never had any professional connection to the railway, but even I know that a proceed aspect is any aspect that doesn't mean "stop here", so it can be green, single or double yellow, flashing or not flashing - anything but red.

 

[hexagon789]

He’s talking out of his arris (I say that as a current driver).

A yellow/cautionary aspect is also a proceed aspect.

The rulebook also talks in terms of green, yellow, red aspects etc.

“Yellow aspect” is not a term anyone would misunderstand or query unlike “amber aspect”, “flashing ambers”, which would never be used and would raise a few eyebrows!

Fair enough, I'm not a driver so I have to go on what others have told me and the unfortunate consequence of that is you don' know when you're being told a load of old tosh!

 

[Bromley boy]

I've never had any professional connection to the railway, but even I know that a proceed aspect is any aspect that doesn't mean "stop here", so it can be green, single or double yellow, flashing or not flashing - anything but red.

Fair enough, I'm not a driver so I have to go on what others have told me and the unfortunate consequence of that is you don' know when you're being told a load of old tosh!

Unfortunately there are lots of wannabes, dreamers and opinionated arm chair experts on this forum, and others, who don’t have the foggiest idea what they’re talking about.

If in doubt, always consult the rule book (none of it is exactly rocket science).

 

[sw1ller]

I've never had any professional connection to the railway, but even I know that a proceed aspect is any aspect that doesn't mean "stop here", so it can be green, single or double yellow, flashing or not flashing - anything but red.

I’m gonna be predantic here now too.... if it’s unlit you normally have to stop too ;0)

 

[edwin_m]

I've never had any professional connection to the railway, but even I know that a proceed aspect is any aspect that doesn't mean "stop here", so it can be green, single or double yellow, flashing or not flashing - anything but red.

A red with a subsidiary (two white lights) would also be a proceed aspect.

 

[infobleep]

With double flashing yellows does one need to slow down? I ask because i have seen them at the end of platform 1 at Berrylands when the gap between trains seems to me to be a reasonable distance. One would probably have to slow down into Surbtion anyway of course.

 

[whoosh]

News reaches me that a train was delayed there as the On Board Supervisor thought there was something wrong with the signal, and stood on the platform looking puzzled at it whilst the driver wanted to shut the doors as they were ready to go.
Which gives you an idea of how poor training is for new OBS's.

 

[infobleep]

Flashing double yellow means the junction ahead is set for the fastest diverging route, although in this case both diverging routes are same speed (30mph) and the route could be set for either. The next signal will be flashing single yellow and the following one after that will have the junction indicator ('feathers' or 'lunar lights') lit up. At this location it means you are coming off the Down Redhill (with no platform), into either the Down Loop (platform 3), or across to the Up Loop in the Down direction (platform 2) depending which junction indicator you get.

Thanks that answers my question.

 

[infobleep]

Can the junction ahead be set for the slowest diverging route and it so what would the colour lights show?

 

[whoosh]

You'd get brought down to a red, which, should the route be set and the section ahead be clear, would change up to a less restrictive aspect with a junction indicator on approach.

 

[Tim M]

Strictly flashing aspects occult, that is they darken, thus if the flasher unit fails it will cause the aspect to revert to a steady aspect and therefore a more restrictive state.

Mind when testing track circuits near Clapham Junction many years ago we had a flagman who called up to a driver of a stopped train, ‘hey man, you got two lemons, off you go’. He might have been from Brixton. So that’s limes, lemons and blood oranges in future?

 

[LAX54]

Very true.

Woe betide anybody using the word “amber” on a rules course.

Remember a Signaller talking to an attendent once, who asked the Signaller "Can I give the Driver an Orange" ? The Signaller replied, "Don't care mate, you can give him a banana if you want"

 

[MichaelAMW]

To be even more pedantic. Are you sure about that?!

View attachment 45254

I've just noticed what I would say is poor English here. Your diagram says "Double yellow aspects", i.e. in the plural, which is wrong. An aspect is a way something appears or is presented, among other similar definitions, so it's a double yellow aspect in the singular, because two yellows together provide a single indication, not two indications. A non exhaustive search of the forum seems to suggest this is the way the professionals here describe it. I wouldn't normally be quite so picky but I thought the rule book had the Plain English Campaigns so-called Crystal Mark...

 

[louis97]

Flashing yellows on the approach to Redhill in the down direction are fairly new and were commissioned under the same scheme as Platform 0. The flashing yellow indicates the train is routed into platform 2 or 3 at Redhill.

 

[DarloRich]

It’s an indication to the driver that, at a forthcoming complex junction, they will be taking the highest speed diverging route and will be followed with: single flashing yellow; single solid yellow with junction indicator; red (although the solid yellow willl likely step up to green on approach).

thanks for that - you learn something every day. I was told by a signaller that the flashing signal indicated a divergent route ahead. Perhaps I missed the highest speed part.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Very common. It’s an indication to the driver that, at a forthcoming complex junction, they will be taking the highest speed diverging route and will be followed with: single flashing yellow; single solid yellow with junction indicator; red (although the solid yellow willl likely step up to green on approach).

I saw a flashing double yellow signal at Clapton station on the down line a few months back and wondered what it meant. It makes sense to me now, as there is a junction half a mile or so down the line.

 

[snowball]

I've never had any professional connection to the railway, but even I know that a proceed aspect is any aspect that doesn't mean "stop here"

Fair enough, I'm not a driver so I have to go on what others have told me and the unfortunate consequence of that is you don' know when you're being told a load of old tosh!

When I said "even I know" I wasn't commenting on the fact that you didn't know, but on the fact that your former driver had got it wrong.

 

[Sunset route]

Merstham station going south has a signal at the end of the platform, and most of the time both orange lights are flashing (after going through red and orange static).

What does this mean and is it uncommon?

I hope this explains all.