Driverless Cars - the future?

[ralphchadkirk]

And given that the police are suffering cuts at the moment, just how many officers will consider it to be a valuable use of their time to prosecute someone who's done a **** in a car?

 

[Zoe]

I pay £350 a year on a car with a 2.5ltr turbocharged engine. I don't see that as expensive at all. The £240 VED isn't that much* either (except I do very low mileage, so it works out more per-mile than for someone using a car every day). However, the £1.49 I paid last week for Super Unleaded IS a lot.

Insurance is NOT the reason people will get rid of their cars!

For you maybe but for new drivers the cost is getting to be unaffordable. I doubt many can afford £4000 for a 1.25 Fiesta.

And if the person fined denies any involvement?

It wouldn't be possible to deny when a log of the journey is made.

And if the robotically moving child seat malfunctions, or doesn't lock into place properly?

In fact, if anything at all goes wrong with the vehicle - how does the person(s) report this fact? Will it have voice recognition (Siri or HAL style) to respond instantly, or will it require making a phone call or using a smartphone app.. and then what, waiting for a replacement vehicle to turn up?

There would a failsafe system to detect any failure and stop the car safely.

How many vehicles do you envisage being needed nationally, of different types, for every eventuality?

That will depend on the demand at the time.

 

[jon0844]

If they are electric, they'd need to be charged sufficiently - so you've now got that huge fleet standing by all over the country, and now need to make sure they're all topped up!

What about more than one company wanting to build these? Who will check the interoperability of them? Will the tax payer get a good deal if the Government buys them all?

If a car locked the occupants in while driving to a police station (which it knows is open and staffed, and there's enough fuel to get to) then I am sure we'll see the operator (maybe the Government) sued for false imprisonment. And what if someone is sick in the car due to illness - they'll get thrown in jail?

Finally, the customer now has to predict demand and book in advance to pop out and get some more nappies, milk, bread or whatever? Just to be on the safe side...

And, whoops, seems like you forgot to answer my question about how much you pay for car insurance and what car you drive! I'd love to know how you keep thinking insurance will force everyone off the road one day. New drivers can get affordable insurance if they don't mind not owning their dream car from day one. We were ALL new drivers once you know.

 

[Zoe]

I'd love to know how you keep thinking insurance will force everyone off the road one day. New drivers can get affordable insurance if they don't mind not owning their dream car from day one. We were ALL new drivers once you know.

If new drivers can't afford insurance then it's inevitable that eventually no-one will be driving at all. I doubt many would consider a 1.25 Fiesta to be a dream car or £4000 to be affordable.
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Finally, the customer now has to predict demand and book in advance to pop out and get some more nappies, milk, bread or whatever? Just to be on the safe side...

People wouldn't need to go out for that, the items could be delivered.
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If a car locked the occupants in while driving to a police station (which it knows is open and staffed, and there's enough fuel to get to) then I am sure we'll see the operator (maybe the Government) sued for false imprisonment. And what if someone is sick in the car due to illness - they'll get thrown in jail?

Not if they are ill and sick, this situation would be more likely if someone was seen deliberately urinating in the car.

 

[jon0844]

If new drivers can't afford insurance then it's inevitable that eventually no-one will be driving at all. I doubt many would consider a 1.25 Fiesta to be a dream car or £4000 to be affordable.

But what do YOU pay? Is it £4,000? If so, I presume you don't drive a 1.25 Fiesta, because I owned a S-reg 1.25 Zetec Fiesta (my wife called it Bluey; guess what colour it was) and it was a lovely car. Small, yes, but nimble and very quick to 30 (great for town driving). Lovely Yamaha engine.

Most new drivers would love to own a car like that as their first car and wouldn't pay anywhere near £4000.

Now I paid a silly figure not far off that amount when I got my Escort RS Cosworth. A group 20U car (with the groupings at the time). U, by the way is bad. E was good (exceeds the requirements, meaning it has been taken down a group number). U meant high-risk, the highest possible group at the time. I happened to be earning quite a lot of money back then, and my car had been modified to bring the premiums up even more. I was 23, which I can assure you was not a good age for this car - especially the big turbo model with the whale tale!

I'll admit I don't fully know the new groupings (which has changed since I bought my latest car) but I do assume it has made more cars affordable to insure for youngsters by reducing the number of cars lumped together in the same group. My first car was a a sub-1 litre Fiesta. 0-60 in, erm, well I got the car in around 1991 so when it gets to 60mph, I'll let you know...

I am sure some car makers even do special deals on a new car with insurance for the first year, including young drivers. In fact, aimed specifically AT young drivers. What evidence do you have that the car industry will stop this, to stop anyone ever buying a car in the first place? Does the car industry want to become obsolete overnight - and who pays the unemployment benefit when tens of thousands of people are put on unemployment?

People wouldn't need to go out for that, the items could be delivered.

These cars can go shopping too? Wow.

Not if they are ill and sick, this situation would be more likely if someone was seen deliberately urinating in the car.

How will a sensor know what is deliberate and what isn't? And can I be the first to suggest that these driverless cars should concentrate more on what's going on OUTSIDE the vehicle than inside?!

 

[Zoe]

These cars can go shopping too? Wow.

No, a vehicle would be dispatched to you with your order.

How will a sensor know what is deliberate and what isn't? And can I be the first to suggest that these driverless cars should concentrate more on what's going on OUTSIDE the vehicle than inside?!

As I have said above, look how far technology has advanced to the way things are today. What may seem difficult now likely won't be in the future.
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Most new drivers would love to own a car like that as their first car and wouldn't pay anywhere near £4000.

Even if you halve that to a £2000 quote which I know quite a few people have had, it's still not going to be very affordable for 17 year olds. Quotes of over £4000 for small cars do occur, see http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jun/19/teenage-car-insurance

 

[jon0844]

No, a vehicle would be dispatched to you with your order.

Who gets the order? It's driverless. Who gets out to go and get the items? Or does it drive in to the store and pick the items off the shelf with the same robotic arms that put the child seats in place?

I live near Ocado, and they have robots to pick items from what I've read. Maybe the driverless car can go there to pick up goods? Shame these depots aren't exactly plentiful (one central location for a large part of the South East in the case of Ocado).

OMG, it's time for me to call it a day on this.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

OMG, it's time for me to call it a day on this.

I would like to hear more about these sensors that can distinguish between malicious vomit and ill vomit personally!

 

[90019]

You may well think that but the reality of the situation is that it is not a problem in general, just a personal inconvenience to some people.

You just don't get it, do you?

This would be offset by the number of cars in total that would need to be produced and maintained.

So, you would have to scrap every single car on the roads, and produce millions of new ones, wasting an obscene amount of resources in the process.

It could be detected by sensors and reported automatically. It would also be a possibility to have the doors lock and the car drive the offenders straight to the police station.

And what about when the sensors fail?
How exactly would it detect when a car has been soiled? How could it tell the difference between, say, someone peeing in one and someone spilling some juice in one? I doubt the police would be too happy to have one of these cars turn up because someone had spilt their juice inside.
I think lawyers would have a field day with that one, when the car had locked itself, trapping their clients, taking them to a police station against their will and wasting police time.
That's another point - what if the locking system fails? What would happen when they got stuck on locked, trapping the passengers?

There would be enough vehicles to meet the demand but this would still be less vehicles in total than everyone having their own. There would be times when demand is exceptionally high that the wait could be longer, in which case you should book in advance.

So, you're planning on there not being enough capacity to meet the needs of everyone at peak time.
Sounds like a real great system that. :roll:

I don't expect the investment to be from a single source but considering the clear safety and environmental benefits I would expect some government investment. The developers of the technology are also likely to invest as they are set to benefit from its use.

In other words, you don't know where the money would come from.

It would be automatically reported and responded to.

And when the sensors and/or reporting system fails?
What do you do then?

It wouldn't be a single computer system. You would have several computers working with each other and if there is an error in one then the remaining computers can vote it out. The chances of all of the computers failing at the same time would be extremely low.

There's still the possibility.
In a vehicle with no manual control, and no override system? No thanks, I'll drive my own car.

The vehicles are not likely to run our of fuel just like that as when you call one you would request it for a specific journey and it would ensure that it was had the fuel for the journey before it arrived.

What if you're doing a really long journey that will require more fuel than the car can hold?

Humans are certainly not infallible and it's likely in the future that computers will be much more reliable and able to deal with the situation better than a human driver could.

Computers do not have the same decision making ability as a human. They can only make their judgements based on what you tell them, they can't react to a developing situation other than how they have been told to.

 

[Zoe]

Who gets the order? It's driverless. Who gets out to go and get the items? Or does it drive in to the store and pick the items off the shelf with the same robotic arms that put the child seats in place?

I live near Ocado, and they have robots to pick items from what I've read. Maybe the driverless car can go there to pick up goods? Shame these depots aren't exactly plentiful (one central location for a large part of the South East in the case of Ocado).

An order would be placed and a drivlerless vehicle could be dispatched from a distribution centre after robots have loaded it.
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There's still the possibility.
In a vehicle with no manual control, and no override system? No thanks, I'll drive my own car.

The possibility of an accident due to all of the computers failing at the same time would be much lower than if a human was driving the car.

Computers do not have the same decision making ability as a human. They can only make their judgements based on what you tell them, they can't react to a developing situation other than how they have been told to.

At this time yes but in the future it may well be that computers will be more able to deal with the situation than humans can.

 

[90019]

And, whoops, seems like you forgot to answer my question about how much you pay for car insurance and what car you drive.

Clearly, Zoe doesn't even have a driving licence, let alone a car.

People wouldn't need to go out for that, the items could be delivered.

So you would need even more cars to deliver people's shopping?

Not if they are ill and sick, this situation would be more likely if someone was seen deliberately urinating in the car.

How would that work then? Would you have people sitting at a bank of screens watching every single person using one of these cars?

 

[jon0844]

Zoe, what do you drive, what group and how much to insure it?

Please answer.

 

[90019]

Zoe, what do you drive, what group and how much to insure it?

Please answer.

There's still been no answer as to whether Zoe has a driving licence or not.
So clearly it's a no, and he/she/it doesn't own a car either.

 

[Zoe]

Clearly, Zoe doesn't even have a driving licence, let alone a car.

I have never said anything on this subject.

So you would need even more cars to deliver people's shopping?

No, these would be vans. They wouldn't just drive to one person with an order and then back.

How would that work then? Would you have people sitting at a bank of screens watching every single person using one of these cars?

Sensors could detect any soiling of the car and alert operators to monitor the car and take action if needed in the short term. In the long term computers may even be able to reliably judge what the person has done.
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Zoe, what do you drive, what group and how much to insure it?

Please answer.

The issue here is a general one. Insurance is getting to be unaffordable for new drivers.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Oh. My. God.


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

 

[starrymarkb]

Here's an example. About once a year around Halloween we go to Whitby. And we take a lot of stuff. (Goths do not travel light as anyone who has travelled on the Coastliner bus from York at Halloween weekend can testify).

So questions about this journey.

• What sort of cost would I be looking at for a 330 mile journey? Would I be charged per mile or by the hour
• It is about a 7 hour drive, how would comfort stops be accounted for... Would I be charged for the time spent getting food or would I be expected to unload the car and
• Would the vehicle have to be repatriated to its home area or would it be one nationwide pool. How would you deal with honeypot areas without leaving others short. Would vehicles return empty or look for journeys heading back to their home area?
• If Electric cars are used how would you arrange any en-route recharges that might be needed

 

[90019]

I have never said anything on this subject.

Exactly.
Clearly you have neither.

No, these would be vans. They wouldn't just drive to one person with an order and then back.

What about all the people whose jobs you are taking away?

The issue here is a general one. Insurance is getting to be unaffordable for new drivers.

And yet, new drivers are still driving.
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Oh. My. God.

Quite.

 

[Zoe]

What about all the people whose jobs you are taking away?

Would there even be any jobs at all in the future with extensive automation?

And yet, new drivers are still driving.

But may not be for much longer if the cost of insurance continues to increase.
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Exactly.
Clearly you have neither.

There's nothing clear about it at all.
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What sort of cost would I be looking at for a 330 mile journey? Would I be charged per mile or by the hour
[*]It is about a 7 hour drive, how would comfort stops be accounted for... Would I be charged for the time spent getting food or would I be expected to unload the car and
[*]Would the vehicle have to be repatriated to its home area or would it be one nationwide pool. How would you deal with honeypot areas without leaving others short. Would vehicles return empty or look for journeys heading back to their home area?
[*]If Electric cars are used how would you arrange any en-route recharges that might be needed

I would expect that you would request a journey and you would then be transported to a transfer node likely on the edge of a town where you and other people would transfer to a larger form of transport for the intercity part of your journey. There wouldn't be any need for separate cars to travel to the same location when a more efficient alternative is available. This intercity part could even be by rail. You would be billed for the entire journey.

 

[90019]

But may not be for much longer if the cost of insurance continues to increase.

They've been saying that for years, but young drivers are still finding ways round it. Not to mention the ones who just don't bother about insurance because it's too expensive.

There's nothing clear about it at all.

Your silence on the matter says it all.

 

[Zoe]

They've been saying that for years, but young drivers are still finding ways round it.

Like "fronting" which is illegal.

 

[AlterEgo]

This is absolute gold. I wish I could bottle this thread. I've laughed non-stop since page one.

Zoe, you don't drive, do you?

 

[90019]

Like "fronting" which is illegal.

The fact it's illegal doesn't stop people doing it, though.

 

[starrymarkb]

I would expect that you would request a journey and you would then be transported to a transfer node likely on the edge of a town where you and other people would transfer to a larger form of transport for the intercity part of your journey. There wouldn't be any need for separate cars to travel to the same location when a more efficient alternative is available. This intercity part could even be by rail. You would be billed for the entire journey.

Per person or per pod load? Don't forget the large amount of luggage

 

[Zoe]

Per person or per pod load?

You would state your load when you place the order so a suitable vehicle can be dispatched to you and space reserved on intercity transport. A charge could then be calculated based on that.
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The fact it's illegal doesn't stop people doing it, though.

Until they are caught.

 

[starrymarkb]

And presumably the jumbo pods/trains that run from hub to hub will work 24/7? Another common mission for my car is gig trips to nearby cities with a late drive back after the show.... I take a car full of friends and it works out as £2-3 each! Is charging groups more going to work when the current marginal cost of an extra car passenger is tiny. I don't fancy shelling out an extra £30-£50 for an overnight stop

 

[90019]

Zoe - what about scooters and motorbikes?
Will they be banned?
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Until they are caught.

Clearly, as the chances of being caught are so low, it's considered to be worth taking the risk.

 

[Zoe]

I take a car full of friends and it works out as £2-3 each! Is charging groups more going to work when the current marginal cost of an extra car passenger is tiny. I don't fancy shelling out an extra £30-£50 for an overnight stop

I doubt the cost would increase significantly until you start having to request a larger vehicle. It wouldn't be a case of five people travelling costing five times as much as one person. The overall costs would be set to encourage groups of people to travel.

 

[starrymarkb]

But as you said you would expect people to transfer to a larger vehicle (a train or coach) for intercity trips, would those be charged per person?

And would these trains/coaches run 24/7 and would there be the capacity if all intercity motorists switched...

 

[Zoe]

But as you said you would expect people to transfer to a larger vehicle (a train or coach) for intercity trips, would those be charged per person?

And would these trains/coaches run 24/7 and would there be the capacity if all intercity motorists switched...

To encourage group travel it may well be that there would be a fixed price for up to five people to travel or only a small charge for each additional person (up to five) in the group to travel. The transport would run when there is demand which I think would be there if there were no private cars on the road. Capacity would of course need to be provided for this.
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Zoe - what about scooters and motorbikes?
Will they be banned?

It could be an idea to provide single seated automated vehicles.

Clearly, as the chances of being caught are so low, it's considered to be worth taking the risk.

This would suggest that there is a case for better enforcement.

 

[90019]

It could be an idea to provide single seated automated vehicles.

Yet another type of vehicle that will have to be bought to add to fleet. :roll:

This would suggest that there is a case for better enforcement.

By whom?