Driving large vehicles over the white line

[johncrossley]

If you drive a large vehicle, such as a bus or HGV, inevitably you are going to cross the white line in the middle of the road on single carriageways, especially on bendy roads. Even solid white lines, when it is usually illegal, because of the sheer width of your vehicle. How is this covered in training? What happens if another bus or HGV comes the other way? What should smaller vehicles do when you cross the white line?

 

[Dai Corner]

If you drive a large vehicle, such as a bus or HGV, inevitably you are going to cross the white line in the middle of the road on single carriageways, especially on bendy roads. Even solid white lines, when it is usually illegal, because of the sheer width of your vehicle. How is this covered in training? What happens if another bus or HGV comes the other way? What should smaller vehicles do when you cross the white line?

Is this any different to two cars meeting on a narrow road? One pulls in to allow enough space to pass or if that's not possible reverses to a wider section.

 

[johncrossley]

Is this any different to two cars meeting on a narrow road? One pulls in to allow enough space to pass or if that's not possible reverses to a wider section.

It is slightly different because on a narrow road vehicles are usually driving at a low speed so they can stop if something is coming the other way. I'm thinking of a single carriageway road that is only slightly narrower than average. A road that most cars would be travelling at over 50 mph on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If one needs to cross the centreline for whatever reason (either because there's an obstruction or because one's vehicle doesn't fit left of it), one must give way to traffic on the other side of it.

In reality, though, most drivers are reasonable (ha!) and will move over if they can.

Is this any different to two cars meeting on a narrow road? One pulls in to allow enough space to pass or if that's not possible reverses to a wider section.

No, it's exactly the same.

 

[johncrossley]

one must give way to traffic on the other side of it.

But a lot of the time the HGV or bus won't give way, meaning that if you are coming the other way you have to move to the extreme left of the road, and slow down, if you are cautious like me. That's a problem if you are being tailgated. Understandable that they won't stop or almost stop, because they won't get anywhere if they are constantly crossing the line. I'm probably more cautious than average, because most drivers don't seem to slow down much in that situation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But a lot of the time the HGV or bus won't give way, meaning that if you are coming the other way you have to move to the extreme left of the road, and slow down, if you are cautious like me. That's a problem if you are being tailgated. Understandable that they won't stop or almost stop, because they won't get anywhere if they are constantly crossing the line. I'm probably more cautious than average, because most drivers don't seem to slow down much in that situation.

If they don't, then they are not driving correctly.

If you are being tailgated and are intimidated by it, the correct answer is to lift off the accelerator and slowly slow down. One of two things will then happen - the person doing the tailgating will get cross and overtake, or the speed will reduce to one where the close spacing becomes safe.

However if you find road positioning difficult you might want to take some tuition or similar specifically on that area. Roads do work better when people co-operate and are confident enough to do so.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

But a lot of the time the HGV or bus won't give way, meaning that if you are coming the other way you have to move to the extreme left of the road, and slow down, if you are cautious like me. That's a problem if you are being tailgated. Understandable that they won't stop or almost stop, because they won't get anywhere if they are constantly crossing the line. I'm probably more cautious than average, because most drivers don't seem to slow down much in that situation.

Not understable that they break the law and try to bully others!

Oftentimes they cross the lines only because they can not be bothered to steer.

 

[skyhigh]

Oftentimes they cross the lines only because they can not be bothered to steer.

Do you really think that's true?

 

[Cowley]

Not understable that they break the law and try to bully others!

Oftentimes they cross the lines only because they can not be bothered to steer.

What absolute nonsense. HGV drivers are among the best on the road and perhaps you should try sitting in the cab of one to understand the difficulties they face delivering goods on an imperfect road system.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Do you really think that's true?

Yes, they often cut corners at junctions and go too close to vehicles waiting to turn out.

 

[skyhigh]

Yes, they often cut corners at junctions and go too close to vehicles waiting to turn out.

Have you ever driven a large vehicle? You honestly think it's lazy drivers?

 

[edwin_m]

What absolute nonsense. HGV drivers are among the best on the road and perhaps you should try sitting in the cab of one to understand the difficulties they face delivering goods on an imperfect road system.

Often but certainly not always. Memories of being tailgated through the 20-mile 50mph roadworks on the M1 a few years back, where the HGV behind gained absolutely nothing by getting me out of the way - I eventually sped up to put a few other vehicles between us and it never caught up with me.

I imagine a large vehicle driver would have to be absolutely sure the other side was clear before crossing the white line, stopping if necessary to do so.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Often but certainly not always. Memories of being tailgated through the 20-mile 50mph roadworks on the M1 a few years back, where the HGV behind gained absolutely nothing by getting me out of the way - I eventually sped up to put a few other vehicles between us and it never caught up with me.

Lorries and coaches do tailgate on motorways - I'd say the majority do. This is one of the few areas where poor driving is the norm with such vehicles.

I imagine a large vehicle driver would have to be absolutely sure the other side was clear before crossing the white line, stopping if necessary to do so.

All non-solid white lines are de-facto give way markings. Crossing solid ones is technically an offence but in practice large vehicles sometimes have to disregard that.

 

[ABB125]

Lorries and coaches do tailgate on motorways - I'd say the majority do. This is one of the few areas where poor driving is the norm with such vehicles.

Though to be fair they probably have a better view of the road ahead than you do in your car, so unlike a tailgating car where the driver can't see anything other than the numberplate of the car in front, the lorry/coach driver can see far ahead and anticipate hazards.
Doesn't mean it's good practice though!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though to be fair they probably have a better view of the road ahead than you do in your car, so unlike a tailgating car where the driver can't see anything other than the numberplate of the car in front, the lorry/coach driver can see far ahead and anticipate hazards.
Doesn't mean it's good practice though!

It's indeed not good practice, because there are reasons for the vehicle in front to stop that isn't related to the vehicle in front of them, e.g. a mechnical failure or medical emergency.

 

[Towers]

Lorries tailgating one another on motorways is often said to be due to them wishing to travel in the 'slipstream' of the wagon in front, although it leaves them with practically zero chance of stopping if that wagon hits the brakes hard.

The tailgating through 50mph roadworks is a depressingly well known issue, and happens because lorries are limited by law to 56mph. This happens to be about the speed you'll get away with in a 50 without being ticketed, and so leads to less professional drivers choosing to steam through with their foot hard down (the lorry won't go any faster once it tops out at 56), taking offence at motorists who choose to stick to the limit. It's an appaling driving habit with real potential to kill people, any anybody caught doing it in a 44 ton lorry deserves removal of their licence!

 

[Bald Rick]

If this concerns you, don’t drive up the A82 up the west shore of Loch Lomond!

 

[edwin_m]

Lorries tailgating one another on motorways is often said to be due to them wishing to travel in the 'slipstream' of the wagon in front, although it leaves them with practically zero chance of stopping if that wagon hits the brakes hard.

The tailgating through 50mph roadworks is a depressingly well known issue, and happens because lorries are limited by law to 56mph. This happens to be about the speed you'll get away with in a 50 without being ticketed, and so leads to less professional drivers choosing to steam through with their foot hard down (the lorry won't go any faster once it tops out at 56), taking offence at motorists who choose to stick to the limit. It's an appaling driving habit with real potential to kill people, any anybody caught doing it in a 44 ton lorry deserves removal of their licence!

I suppose if you're going to travel too close to the vehicle in front, you're actually slightly safer if you travel very close, because if the driver in front hits the brakes, the truck won't have slowed down much before impact so the relative speed of impact will be less than for a greater separation.

I believe the types of roadworks formerly restricted to 50mph are now 60mph, which should remove the 56mph issue.

 

[Dai Corner]

I believe the types of roadworks formerly restricted to 50mph are now 60mph, which should remove the 56mph issue.

Possibly. I'm not sure. But the Welsh Government have imposed permanent 50mph limits on some of their motorways so the issue will continue there.

The NSL on single carriageway roads is 50mph for HGVs (effectively 56 for those who drive on the limiter) and 60mph for cars which leads to another type of conflict.

 

[Bald Rick]

The NSL on single carriageway roads is 50mph for HGVs (effectively 56 for those who drive on the limiter) and 60mph for cars which leads to another type of conflict.

Except in Scotland, where it’s 40 (except on parts of the A9, where it is 50!)

Albeit routinely ignored by most HGV drivers in Scotland who travel at 56 regardless.

 

[elmogrouchland]

If they don't, then they are not driving correctly.

If you are being tailgated and are intimidated by it, the correct answer is to lift off the accelerator and slowly slow down. One of two things will then happen - the person doing the tailgating will get cross and overtake, or the speed will reduce to one where the close spacing becomes safe.

However if you find road positioning difficult you might want to take some tuition or similar specifically on that area. Roads do work better when people co-operate and are confident enough to do so.

The days of HGV drivers being the 'Knights Of The Roads' are long gone.

These days they are almost as bad as that other paragon of professional driving, the taxi driver!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The days of HGV drivers being the 'Knights Of The Roads' are long gone.

These days they are almost as bad as that other paragon of professional driving, the taxi driver!

I don't think I'd go that far. Minicab drivers (and I think it's worth differentiating) are the worst drivers in the UK. It is very rare indeed to see one drive safely and competently.

 

[elmogrouchland]

I don't think I'd go that far. Minicab drivers (and I think it's worth differentiating) are the worst drivers in the UK. It is very rare indeed to see one drive safely and competently.

I did say 'almost'!

In Edinburgh the black cab drivers could give the minicab drivers a run for their money any day of the week!

 

[Bikeman78]

Though to be fair they probably have a better view of the road ahead than you do in your car, so unlike a tailgating car where the driver can't see anything other than the numberplate of the car in front, the lorry/coach driver can see far ahead and anticipate hazards.
Doesn't mean it's good practice though!

How far do you think that defence would go in court? I had a tailgating HGV prat behind me on Rover Way the other week. At one point the traffic ground to a halt so when it moved again I drove along at 5 mph. He must have sounded his horn constantly for about 45 seconds. Very professional. Nothing he could do because there was a constant queue of traffic going the other way. After a while I got bored and accelerated away and caught up the queue 30 seconds later.

 

[dgl]

We've witnessed some shocking driving by HGV's, one who was constantly trying to overtake us despite going faster than he was legally allowed to do, then proceeded to flash his lights aggressively when we wouldn't slow down to let him pass.
Also one the other day who must have made a run up to get up a hill (that is just outside a 30 zone, so probably had to break the speed limit at some point, met us trying also get get up said hill and at that point going slower than he was, so must have had to slow down and as such beeped at us.
What really annoys me is it's idiots like that who make my sister think that she is doing something wrong driving and makes her worry, something that really pi***s me off!
Of course a national HGV driver shortage will mean that you are more likely to get drivers who are not the best as you simply don't have the drivers to pick and choose from.

As for tailgating I wonder how much attention a tailgating HGV driver is actually paying to the road ahead? and as such is more likely to get into an accident that will be much worse because of the tailgating.

 

[Ted633]

We've witnessed some shocking driving by HGV's, one who was constantly trying to overtake us despite going faster than he was legally allowed to do, then proceeded to flash his lights aggressively when we wouldn't slow down to let him pass.

Just going to pick up on this bit. Yes, you are absolutely correct that the HGV driver was driving in a very dangerous manner. However, if someone is driving like that behind you, it really is best just to get out of there way (when safe) and let them past. I know that's very irritating and I hear the 'why should do that, they're the one in the wrong', but it's going to cost you a matter of seconds to let them past. If they stay behind you, the risk of an accident is greatly increases and unfortunately a car comes off much worse in a collision than an HGV. It's not all that good being able to say 'I was in the right' whilst laying in hospital, or worse.
Defensive driving is key.

 

[ABB125]

How far do you think that defence would go in court? I had a tailgating HGV prat behind me on Rover Way the other week. At one point the traffic ground to a halt so when it moved again I drove along at 5 mph. He must have sounded his horn constantly for about 45 seconds. Very professional. Nothing he could do because there was a constant queue of traffic going the other way. After a while I got bored and accelerated away and caught up the queue 30 seconds later.

I wouldn't expect it to go anywhere in court. However that doesn't change the fact that it's true.

 

[43021HST]

If you drive a large vehicle, such as a bus or HGV, inevitably you are going to cross the white line in the middle of the road on single carriageways, especially on bendy roads. Even solid white lines, when it is usually illegal, because of the sheer width of your vehicle. How is this covered in training? What happens if another bus or HGV comes the other way? What should smaller vehicles do when you cross the white line?

Like all things on the road there is a bit of lee-way in the rules.

(Despite my location saying other wise) I recently moved to Somerset where you have plenty of roads with hard white lines, however the roads are so twisty it's fairly frequent for buses and lorries to cross over the line slightly. especially as a good deal of the hedgerows and things are very overgrown. My responsibility as a car driver is to anticipate something like a bus or lorry coming from the other direction, hanging into my side of the road a bit, so any blind corners you take it easy.

Regarding the comment about tail-gaters, I don't like them either, but best thing is to slow down a bit.
Although a pet peeve of mine are folks who insist on doing 40mph in a national, (and then carry on doing 40mph through a 30mph village) if your judgement is that impaired that you need to do 20mph below the speed limit, should you be driving?

 

[Bletchleyite]

We've witnessed some shocking driving by HGV's, one who was constantly trying to overtake us despite going faster than he was legally allowed to do, then proceeded to flash his lights aggressively when we wouldn't slow down to let him pass.

You didn't speed up to prevent a pass then slow down when he pulled back in, did you? A lot of people do that, seemingly without realising, and it really grates.

 

[johncrossley]

Although a pet peeve of mine are folks who insist on doing 40mph in a national, (and then carry on doing 40mph through a 30mph village) if your judgement is that impaired that you need to do 20mph below the speed limit, should you be driving?

Someone doing that is not interested in speed limits and just does their own thing. They don't seem to worry about the possibility of a police speed trap.