Driving large vehicles over the white line

[Bletchleyite]

Someone doing that is not interested in speed limits and just does their own thing. They don't seem to worry about the possibility of a police speed trap.

Known as the 40mph club, or the "FART" club (Forty All the Ruddy Time), also emphasizing that these people are generally older and lacking awareness and attention perhaps as a result of their extended years, and perhaps it's time to hand in their licence and stick to their ENCTS or equivalent instead.

 

[Towers]

Someone doing that is not interested in speed limits and just does their own thing. They don't seem to worry about the possibility of a police speed trap.

I'm very firmly of the view that a significant proportion of the UK's motorists have absolutely no idea what the National Speed Limit is, or what the relevant signage means. Hence they bimble along at 45ish, accepting that the limit probably isn't 30 but not knowing what it actually is. I agree it's utterly infuriating! Sadly it's all part of the decline in driving standards, just the same as the morons who sit aimlessly in the middle lane of a motorway for an entire journey, demonstrating their hopeless incompetence to everybody else trying to use the road. Grrr!

 

[dgl]

You didn't speed up to prevent a pass then slow down when he pulled back in, did you? A lot of people do that, seemingly without realising, and it really grates.

We were doing as close to the speed limit as the car could muster and was very much above the speed limit that the truck was allowed to do, even accounting for inaccuracies in the cars speedo.
My sister is not a driver who uses dangerous tactics to prevent overtakes and usually slows down to let people pass.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We were doing as close to the speed limit as the car could muster and was very much above the speed limit that the truck was allowed to do, even accounting for inaccuracies in the cars speedo.
My sister is not a driver who uses dangerous tactics to prevent overtakes and usually slows down to let people pass.

Fair enough. I just find a lot of people do do that. I tend to drive on motorways on cruise control which gives a very precise constant speed, and I've lost count of the number of overtakes when it happens and I have to briefly add power to get past then drop back to the speed I was doing and they disappear into the distance. It's like they take offence.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Just going to pick up on this bit. Yes, you are absolutely correct that the HGV driver was driving in a very dangerous manner. However, if someone is driving like that behind you, it really is best just to get out of there way (when safe) and let them past. I know that's very irritating and I hear the 'why should do that, they're the one in the wrong', but it's going to cost you a matter of seconds to let them past. If they stay behind you, the risk of an accident is greatly increases and unfortunately a car comes off much worse in a collision than an HGV. It's not all that good being able to say 'I was in the right' whilst laying in hospital, or worse.
Defensive driving is key.

In practice there is oftentimes no way to let them past. Or you let one past and a few seconds later another appears in the mirror doing just the same.

Examples of bad truck driving have been mentioned, what about examples of good driving? Reversing exactly into a loading bay might be one.

Plenty of car drivers follow too close behind larger vehicles, are they trying to hide, or to save energy?

 

[43021HST]

You didn't speed up to prevent a pass then slow down when he pulled back in, did you? A lot of people do that, seemingly without realising, and it really grates.

Agreed, only time I've ever done 90 is from someone doing this.

 

[Towers]

Plenty of car drivers follow too close behind larger vehicles, are they trying to hide, or to save energy?

They're usually just completely oblivious and simply can't comprehend doing anything other than sticking to the back bumper of whatever is in front of them!

 

[Bald Rick]

Bit surprised at some of the recent comments. I’ve never had an HGV tailgate me, in well over 3 decades of driving. Perhaps I’m lucky.

 

[stuu]

The only times it has happened to me was in 50mph average speed zones, as repeatedly mentioned above. The M3 smart motorway works were terrible for that. On more than one occasion I moved to a further out lane to let a truck undertake me rather than have it sitting 5m from my back bumper

In their (slight) defence though, if they didn't have such ludicrously tight schedules they wouldn't need to be so determined to make the maximum possible progress

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bit surprised at some of the recent comments. I’ve never had an HGV tailgate me, in well over 3 decades of driving. Perhaps I’m lucky.

I get it all the time in 50s, particularly if overtaking in lane 2, as obviously I won't exceed 50 but they want to. I believe we calll it "a taste of their own medicine"

 

[tomuk]

I get it all the time in 50s, particularly if overtaking in lane 2, as obviously I won't exceed 50 but they want to. I believe we calll it "a taste of their own medicine"

Is that 50mph on you speedo? You'll be going less than 50mph as would a truck will not be doing exactly 56mph on its limiter.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is that 50mph on you speedo? You'll be going less than 50mph as would a truck will not be doing exactly 56mph on its limiter.

No, I usually set my cruise control or limiter to 52 which according to GPS is actual 50 or very close to it, probably 0.5mph over if anything.

But even so, there is no excuse for tailgating, ever, even if I was doing 20.

My observation is that in 50s most lorry drivers just run on the limiter (56) and rely on that being under the usual 10% + 2mph discretion used by most forces.

I think this issue may actually be a big driver of why roadworks speeds are now set to 60 in the most part, which apparently causes fewer accidents. The risk to workers is mitigated by using concrete barriers in preference to cones.

 

[tomuk]

No, I usually set my cruise control to 52 which according to GPS is actual 50 or very close to it, probably 0.5mph over if anything.

But even so, there is no excuse for tailgating, ever, even if I was doing 20.

My observation is that in 50s most lorry drivers just run on the limiter (56) and rely on that being under the usual 10% + 2mph discretion used by most forces.

If you were doing 20 and I was the fuzz I'd give you a ticket for driving without due care and attention.

Inspector Gareth Jones of the Roads Policing Unit at North Wales Police said: “Driving too slowly on any road can result in the motorist being penalised for careless driving which carries a fine and penalty points on a licence.

"Each case has to be dealt with on its own merit, however, we would advise anybody who witnesses driving too slow and who has dash cam footage that it can be submitted to us via our #OpSnap campaign.”

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you were doing 20 and I was the fuzz I'd give you a ticket for driving without due care and attention.

HOWEVER, tailgating would still be unacceptable. Two wrongs and all that.

 

[tomuk]

HOWEVER, tailgating would still be unacceptable. Two wrongs and all that.

No if your doing 20 for no good reason you are in the wrong.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No if your doing 20 for no good reason you are in the wrong.

However dangerous behaviour in response to dangerous behaviour is unacceptable. In such cases both should be convicted of their respective offence of DWDCAA.

If you feel that tailgating someone who is driving excessively slowly is acceptable, please hand in your licence before you kill someone.

 

[tomuk]

If you feel that tailgating someone who is driving excessively slowly is acceptable, please hand in your licence before you kill someone.

At 20 mph!! What absolutist nonsense.

 

[Bald Rick]

No if your doing 20 for no good reason you are in the wrong.

I agree that if you are doing 20 for no good reason then it is wrong / bad driving, but that does not mean it is acceptable for someone behind to tailgate. Just overtake them if safe to do so and be done with it.

 

[edwin_m]

There will occasionally be reasons for driving at 20mph on a motorway, for example limping to an emergency bay rather than stopping in Lane 1 where there is no hard shoulder. That would be stressful enough without a HGV filling your rear window.

 

[MotCO]

There will occasionally be reasons for driving at 20mph on a motorway, for example limping to an emergency bay rather than stopping in Lane 1 where there is no hard shoulder. That would be stressful enough without a HGV filling your rear window.

But presumably you would have your hazard warning lights on. (I know that yu should move with your hazard lights on, but how else do you indicate a problem like limping?).

I also wonder whether some drivers are distracted by having the radio on too loud. Do they get carried away listening to the music and become less aware of their surroundings?

 

[Bletchleyite]

At 20 mph!! What absolutist nonsense.

Yes, absolutist. It is NEVER acceptable to commit a road traffic offence in response to another driver committing one (before you say it's not like self defence because the best self defence on a road is to drive defensively, i.e. get yourself as far as possible away from anyone driving erratically). It is the total opposite of defensive driving. Please hand in your licence before you kill someone; this sort of aggression (and that is what it is) has no place on our roads.

I agree that if you are doing 20 for no good reason then it is wrong / bad driving, but that does not mean it is acceptable for someone behind to tailgate. Just overtake them if safe to do so and be done with it.

...is the correct answer.

 

[Lucan]

If you were doing 20 and I was the fuzz I'd give you a ticket for driving without due care and attention.

My car is deliberately programmed to go into "limp mode" if certain fault conditions arise. It has never happened to me but I am on a car forum and have read some stories about it happening, and I gather it limits you to about 30mph. I was however once driving a company van for a one-off trip and it started limping during a road-works stretch on a motorway. If someone is driving at 20 mph there may be a good reason for it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My car is deliberately programmed to go into "limp mode" if certain fault conditions arise. It has never happened to me but I am on a car forum and have read some stories about it happening, and I gather it limits you to about 30mph. I was however once driving a company van for a one-off trip and it started limping during a road-works stretch on a motorway. If someone is driving at 20 mph there may be a good reason for it.

It's generally a rev limit to 2000rpm or so so depends on what the gearing will get from that.

However, I think all of this is a bit moot. @tomuk seems to think it is OK to take his frustration out on another errant vehicle by tailgating them. It isn't; it's never, under any circumstances whatsoever, acceptable to wilfully increase the collision risk with another vehicle to satisfy your anger, not least because an accident caused by that could cause issues for others not involved in the situation. Two wrongs do not make a right, and someone else committing an offence (or just annoying you) doesn't justify him also committing one.

 

[Dai Corner]

If you were doing 20 and I was the fuzz I'd give you a ticket for driving without due care and attention.

I believe those driving excessively slowly on some motorways during their 'fuel protest' were given tickets. I'm not sure what the exact offence was.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe those driving excessively slowly on some motorways during their 'fuel protest' were given tickets. I'm not sure what the exact offence was.

There's a few options - "obstructing the Queen's highway" or just "driving without due care and attention"/"dangerous driving", depending exactly what was being done.

However the key point here is that one person committing DWDCAA/DD doesn't justify another person responding by also committing it. If that happens both should be charged, but really @tomuk should, unless he's trolling, modify his behaviour or give up driving before he kills someone.

If someone does want to get involved in helping road policing, the best way is to fit a dashcam and submit footage to Police if a potential offence is witnessed. They do pay attention to it.

 

[MotCO]

There's a few options - "obstructing the Queen's highway" or just "driving without due care and attention"/"dangerous driving", depending exactly what was being done.

However the key point here is that one person committing DWDCAA/DD doesn't justify another person responding by also committing it. If that happens both should be charged, but really @tomuk should, unless he's trolling, modify his behaviour or give up driving before he kills someone.

If someone does want to get involved in helping road policing, the best way is to fit a dashcam and submit footage to Police if a potential offence is witnessed. They do pay attention to it.

I thought that there was a minimum speed limit on Motorways of 30 mph - or is that old hat. (It would be a blue* and white speed limit sign, rather than a red white and black)

*It's not blue because it's a motorway sign; it's just the colour it is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought that there was a minimum speed limit on Motorways of 30 mph - or is that old hat. (It would be a blue* and white speed limit sign, rather than a red white and black)

*It's not blue because it's a motorway sign; it's just the colour it is.

With motorways it's that to use one your vehicle must be capable of 40mph. Minimum limits do exist but are rare, the Mersey Tunnel is one example.

But again, it doesn't provide an excuse to tailgate. One crime does not excuse another.

 

[tomuk]

However, I think all of this is a bit moot. @tomuk seems to think it is OK to take his frustration out on another errant vehicle by tailgating them.

I don't think it is ok.

However the key point here is that one person committing DWDCAA/DD doesn't justify another person responding by also committing it. If that happens both should be charged, but really @tomuk should, unless he's trolling, modify his behaviour or give up driving before he kills someone.

I'm sorry but you're posting more nonsense. I don't need to modify my behaviour or hand my license in because I don't tailgate people.

Maybe you need to modify your behaviour and 'make progress'* as you seem to be them one who falls foul of tailgaters and undertakers on a frequent basis

* I refer to section 20 of the driving test -
https://www.learnerdriving.com/driving-test/marking/progress

As regards 'limp home mode' this is a misnomer this is to allow you to pull over at a safe place not remain driving on the highway at 20 mph.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think it is ok.

Good. Then why are you defending it? Are you perchance trolling?

I'm sorry but you're posting more nonsense. I don't need to modify my behaviour or hand my license in because I don't tailgate people.

Good. So please stop defending dangerous driving.

Maybe you need to modify your behaviour and 'make progress'* as you seem to be them one who falls foul of tailgaters and undertakers on a frequent basis

* I refer to section 20 of the driving test -
https://www.learnerdriving.com/driving-test/marking/progress

The limit of "making progress" is the speed limit. One is under no circumstances ever required to exceed the speed limit. Impatient people who wish to do so can wait, and pressuring people to do so is unacceptable behaviour.

As for undertaking, others need to comply to the Two Second Rule. Those who do so are not complying to it, and are thus driving without due care and attention. (I do wish there was enforcement of safe spacing, though it's hard to do).

As regards 'limp home mode' this is a misnomer this is to allow you to pull over at a safe place not remain driving on the highway at 20 mph.

Again incorrect. "Limp home mode" doesn't restrict a vehicle to 20mph, typically it's more like 50 (generally it's 1500 or 2000rpm and reduced torque). Any vehicle that can do at least 40mph is permitted on a motorway, ergo it is legal to continue on a motorway as long as "limp home mode" on your vehicle doesn't cause your top speed to drop below 40mph. However, due to the extreme hazard posed by stopping on a motorway, even on the hard shoulder or on an emergency layby, if one is in "limp home mode", it is preferable to put hazards on and proceed to leave the motorway at the next junction. Once you have done so you can then perfectly legally proceed to your destination if you wish, as one may drive any roadworthy vehicle on a non-motorway, non-special public road, e.g. many older tractors can't exceed 20 (and almost all can't exceed 30) and are perfectly road legal.

 

[90019]

Is that 50mph on you speedo? You'll be going less than 50mph as would a truck will not be doing exactly 56mph on its limiter.

Unlike cars, HGVs have calibrated speedos, so will generally be showing the correct speed.