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Drunk train driver

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driver9000

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I did wonder if this was the same story from a year or two ago....

Drink and drugs screening is carried out at random and can be unannounced. You are under your own professional conduct not to turn up for work unfit to drive. If a supervisor or manager thinks you are might be under the influence then they can have you relieved and the screening team called - proving positive for alcohol usually ends up with your next working being 1P45. It's really not worth the risk and the possibility of being screened when booking on is often enough to put people off taking the risk.
 

GB

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There is certainly more monitoring/checking then there used to be. However there is still a large amount of self responsibility and trust that goes with it...particularity with companies that use remote booking on facilities.
 

strange6

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I did wonder if this was the same story from a year or two ago....

Drink and drugs screening is carried out at random and can be unannounced. You are under your own professional conduct not to turn up for work unfit to drive. If a supervisor or manager thinks you are might be under the influence then they can have you relieved and the screening team called - proving positive for alcohol usually ends up with your next working being 1P45. It's really not worth the risk.

Yeah, but having the brass neck to bring a bottle of whiskey with you is something else!
So I take it you don't have a drink up to a certain time before booking on, especially after a break (say 24 hours?)
 

driver9000

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Speaking from my own point of view I never drink if I'm at work the next day.
 

Nick W

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Does this disturb anyone?
The court was told that, before being caught, Whitworth had caused a delay after falling asleep in the driver's cabin while a train was stopped at Cumbernauld station.
He was allowed to continue with his shift as managers believed he was fit to carry on working.

Surely any driver who falls asleep at a station isn't fit to drive?
 

185

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Speaking from my own point of view I never drink if I'm at work the next day.

Agree. Some years ago I did see one (very) drunken guard walking out to his train 'abducted' by his colleagues and stranded miles from anywhere so that he had to ring in sick. Just utter stupidity coming into work in that state. :roll:
 

GB

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Its a shame that some feel they can just pi55 away such a sought after and hard to get job. Good luck to them ever getting another job on the railway once their mandatory 5 year suspension is up!
 

Whistler40145

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Can someone confirm whether it's just DB Schenker Drivers that have to take a Breath Test when they sign on duty?

Do other operators carry out the same procedure?

Although I don't work on the Railways, I would have thought that it was total incompetence of the Managers at Cumbernauld to let that Driver continue his shift. Surely, it should be both a criminal & sackable offence for the Managers to allow the Driver to continue working in such a state?

Didn't they think an accident could occur?
 

GB

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The BBC report doesn't detail what sort or how much exposure the driver had with the manager nor does it state when it occured.
 

E&W Lucas

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Apologies if this has been raised before:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8528842.stm

Has alcohol monitoring increased in the past couple of years compared to previously?


This is the second thread relating to missconduct by drivers that you have started in the last couple of days.

The individual in question has been sacked, is never likely to get another job in the industry again, will have lost a pension the like of which he is unlikely to match anywhere else, has a criminal conviction & prison term, is likely to loose his house, and will struggle to get a decent job in the future. Isn't that enough for you? He has been a total idiot, and has had to take the fully justified consequences.

This kind of stupidity is incredibly rare, and there are very robust systems in place to prevent it. All safety critical staff are subjected to random drug and alcohol testing, testing after an incident (usually before "blame" has been established, so even those not responsible get screened initially) and as in this case, if there is any suspicion of unfitness. If you want to highlight the issue of operating machinery whilst drunk, you should speak to the JP friend of mine, who tells me that most of her workload consists of eastern europeans DUI & without insurance.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Can someone confirm whether it's just DB Schenker Drivers that have to take a Breath Test when they sign on duty?

Do other operators carry out the same procedure?

I've never heard of any company doing that.
 
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Whistler40145

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E & W Lucas, I am just a Railway Enthusiast who travels on many Charter Trains, have no involvement with the industry. I normally expect any Driver to put the safety of himself & others first, this is always the majority, but I expect there are some problems.

That's why I was asking if all operators had a system to minimise such incidents from occurring.

I have nothing against Drivers as long as they are honest & safe in their work.
 

E&W Lucas

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E & W Lucas, I am just a Railway Enthusiast who travels on many Charter Trains, have no involvement with the industry. I normally expect any Driver to put the safety of himself & others first, this is always the majority, but I expect there are some problems.

That's why I was asking if all operators had a system to minimise such incidents from occurring.

I have nothing against Drivers as long as they are honest & safe in their work.

My criticisms are not aimed at you; I'm sure many can see where I'm coming from in highlighting the delight that a few seem to take in staff bashing. However, I hope I've answered your concerns above. Such monitoring systems are most definitely in place.
 

GB

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As far as I am concerned staff that drink on the job deserve to get bashed and quite honestly, I have little sympathy for them when they get caught.
 

E&W Lucas

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As far as I am concerned staff that drink on the job deserve to get bashed and quite honestly, I have little sympathy for them when they get caught.

I'll second that, but it should also be emphasised just how rare such stupidity is.

Now if you were to watch for joe public staggering off a late night train, and then head straight for the car park...
 

Darandio

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Indeed, but Joe Public are hardly performing safety critical duties when staggering off the train are they. Not even worth trying to compare the two is it?
 

E&W Lucas

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Indeed, but Joe Public are hardly performing safety critical duties when staggering off the train are they. Not even worth trying to compare the two is it?

No, they're about to get in their cars, and drive along the same roads that I am! Believe me, I see it regularly.

I'm not standing up for a train driver that's drunk, I'm just a bit fed up by staff bashing in general, by a small minority on here.
 

Darandio

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No, they're about to get in their cars, and drive along the same roads that I am! Believe me, I see it regularly.

I'm not standing up for a train driver that's drunk, I'm just a bit fed up by staff bashing in general, by a small minority on here.

Ah, I get you, I didn't quite take in what you meant, I thought they were heading to the car park for a slash. :D
 

strange6

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This is the second thread relating to missconduct by drivers that you have started in the last couple of days.

The individual in question has been sacked, is never likely to get another job in the industry again, will have lost a pension the like of which he is unlikely to match anywhere else, has a criminal conviction & prison term, is likely to loose his house, and will struggle to get a decent job in the future. Isn't that enough for you? He has been a total idiot, and has had to take the fully justified consequences.

This kind of stupidity is incredibly rare, and there are very robust systems in place to prevent it. All safety critical staff are subjected to random drug and alcohol testing, testing after an incident (usually before "blame" has been established, so even those not responsible get screened initially) and as in this case, if there is any suspicion of unfitness. If you want to highlight the issue of operating machinery whilst drunk, you should speak to the JP friend of mine, who tells me that most of her workload consists of eastern europeans DUI & without insurance.

Sorry, but you seem to have an unhealthy interest in highlighting railway employees that do not perform as they should. Are you perhaps someone that is frustrated because you cannot get such a job yourself?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you had read the story , he had resigned. And with regard to the latter part of your silly comment, no I'm not frustrated because i'm quite happy doing what I do best: engineering. Please reframe from making stupid comments like that in the future please
 

RPM

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Drinking on the job is something I've never encountered and is obviously quite staggeringly stupid.
Bear in mind though, you don't need to be anything like "drunk" to fail a railway alcohol test. The limit is a lot lower than the drink driving limit on the roads and you have to take account of the residual trace alcohol that can be in your system the day after you've been drinking. Obviously most of us drivers are very aware of this and take the necessary precautions, but it would be possible for someone to misjudge it.
 

142094

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Driving, be it on a road or train driving, should have a standard limit across the board - 0. It is quite hard to know how many units you are drinking, when to stop and when you are also fit again after having a drink. At least if you don't have a drink, then you know you'll not be over the limit.
 

ralphchadkirk

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Driving, be it on a road or train driving, should have a standard limit across the board - 0. It is quite hard to know how many units you are drinking, when to stop and when you are also fit again after having a drink. At least if you don't have a drink, then you know you'll not be over the limit.

There is a small amount of natural alcohol in the body, so a flat 0 would be nigh on impossible so I'm told.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
RPM, do Drivers have to abstain from Alcohol for several hours before signing on duty?

They have to be below the limit when they sign on.
 

142094

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There is a small amount of natural alcohol in the body, so a flat 0 would be nigh on impossible so I'm told.

I'm sure that breath-testing equipment is calibrated to factor this in, or at least it can be deducted from the end reading.
 

E&W Lucas

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RPM, do Drivers have to abstain from Alcohol for several hours before signing on duty?

The prescribed time limit is 8 hours, some TOC's suggest 12 hours, and as has been indicated above, many of us will totally avoid alcohol if we are working the next day. All staff are fully briefed on the relative strengths of different drinks, and how long alcohol takes to get out of your system. The same is true of recreational drugs.They are also made fully aware of the consequences of failing to comply with the Drugs & Alcohol policy, and support is offered to anyone that thinks they may have a "problem".

I have also been briefed on a system whereby the police are able to take two breath readings at different times, work out how fast the individual's body is processing alcohol, and then calculate backwards to work out what a person's alcohol reading would have been at the time of an incident.

There really is zero tolerance of alcohol and drugs in the industry, and I feel sorry that the OP felt it necessary to highlight the issue in this way. The case is so rare as to make it newsworthy, it was some time ago, and the individual was not only sacked, but also jailed. That really does go to show that the railway does not mess about with alcohol.
 

RPM

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Eight hours is the time you have to leave after "moderate" drinking. whatever that might mean. In practice you really have to restrict heavy drinking to when you've got a clear day ahead of you before returning to work.

Drugs tend to take several days to leave the system, for example I believe cannabis can linger in your system for up to a fortnight. Best to abstain completely from that sort of thing if you want a railway career.

The alcohol limit, although stricter than the road driving limit, is not set at zero because of the possibility of naturally occuring alcohol in the bloodstream as has been pointed out above. It isn't much above zero though.
 

E&W Lucas

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Drugs tend to take several days to leave the system, for example I believe cannabis can linger in your system for up to a fortnight. Best to abstain completely from that sort of thing if you want a railway career.

Cannabis can be detected for up to six months!
Please take note if you ever partake, and are thinking of going for a job on the railway. Or if you work in preservation. The same legislation applies, and you will still be tested in the event of an incident.
 
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