Drunks Banned From The Railway?

[Dai Corner]

BTP Cardiff have tweeted

Also remember, if you're too drunk you may be left at the station by @ArrivaTW. Drink responsibly if you want to use the Rail network.

(Sorry, on an iPad and can't see how to link to the actual tweet)

I've never heard of anyone being refused travel for being too drunk, but then I don't frequent late night or post-football or rugby trains.

 

[EM2]

It happens quite often.
It's also a byelaw offence:

4. Intoxication and possession of intoxicating liquor
(1) No person shall enter or remain on the railway where such person is unfit
to enter or remain on the railway as a result of being in a state of
intoxication.
(2) Where reasonable notice is, or has been, given prohibiting intoxicating liquor
on any train service, no person shall have any intoxicating liquor with him on
it, or attempt to enter such a train with intoxicating liquor with him.
(3) Where an authorised person reasonably believes that any person is unfit to
enter or remain on the railway, or has with him intoxicating liquor contrary to
Byelaw 4(2), an authorised person may:
(i) require him to leave the railway; and
(ii) prevent him entering or remaining on the railway until an
authorised person is satisfied that he has no intoxicating liquor
with him and/or is no longer in an unfit condition.

 

[KTHV]

It happens regularly on the ATW services up to Ton Pentre which are run as "dry" trains on which alcohol is banned


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Phil.]

In my days as a Guard I've had several experiences of refusing to allow someone to travel. I never quoted bye-laws, the person who starts quoting bye-laws at a person is asking for trouble.

 

[Parallel]

I believe valley line services from Pontypridd to Treherbert, Merthyr Tydfil & Aberdare and Caerphilly to Bargoed/Rhymney are all dry trains and passengers are not permitted to consume alcohol. The problem must've been pretty severe if it warrants a full time ban. Repeated anti-social behaviour offences?

Also, the 20:21 Weymouth - Bristol is a dry trains on Saturday. I've only been on it once on a summer Saturday, and never again.

 

[Agent_c]

Whilst refusing a drunk passage on public transport should be done sparingly (as encouraging them to drive home instead is a very bad idea), if a drunk is at the point where their attempts to use a train are a danger to themselves and others then I can't see any other choice but to refuse them travel until they sober up a bit.

 

[fowler9]

Merseyrail is dry, also London Midland trains leaving Liverpool after a certain time on Fridays and Saturdays. I have a friend who has been turned away from Central Station in Liverpool before even getting through the barriers for being drunk. He wasn't misbehaving as such, he could just barely walk. I don't have a problem with people getting knocked back if they are a) causing trouble or b) like my mate a possible danger to themselves.

 

[headshot119]

I believe valley line services from Pontypridd to Treherbert, Merthyr Tydfil & Aberdare and Caerphilly to Bargoed/Rhymney are all dry trains and passengers are not permitted to consume alcohol. The problem must've been pretty severe if it warrants a full time ban. Repeated anti-social behaviour offences?

Also, the 20:21 Weymouth - Bristol is a dry trains on Saturday. I've only been on it once on a summer Saturday, and never again.

Only north of Pontypridd as I understand it. Doesn't apply on the Rhymney line.

 

[sheff1]

I've never heard of anyone being refused travel for being too drunk,

I have witnessed people being refused at Edinburgh Waverley and Manchester Piccadilly. Both times the train was the last of the day to a destination well over 50 miles away.

My concern is the number of people who I have seen being allowed to board at stations where there has been a large BTP presence when they quite clearly should have been refused travel.

 

[Robertj21a]

They should ban far more drunks from getting on trains. Too many getting on trains anyway, let alone when they get noisy and annoy other passengers.

 

[Parallel]

Doesn't apply on the Rhymney line.

I'm pretty sure it appears on the electronic display boards at stations in the area, though Arriva Trains Wales website just says selected lines - with a number to call for more details.

EDIT: Looks like it is banned

ALCOHOL POLICY
Arriva Trains Wales have prohibited the consumption of alcohol on all services and stations between
Caerphilly - Rhymney, and Pontypridd - Treherbert/Merthr Tydfil/Aberdare

Source: Network Rail

 

[Busaholic]

I've never heard of anyone being refused travel for being too drunk, but then I don't frequent late night or post-football or rugby trains.

A few years ago there was a short TV series showing the work of the BTP. On one of the programmes the BTP and railway staff were shown refusing admission to a station in Liverpool(?) to several totally inebriated potential 'customers', some in fancy dress and almost all being of mature years iirc, telling them to go and get sobered up before they came back. Playing up to the cameras by the BTP? Possibly, but I'd like to think not.

 

[Dai Corner]

I can imagine the announcement "Ladies and Gentlemen, we are now approaching Pontypridd where this service becomes dry. Please drink up or leave the train at the next station stop"

 

[fowler9]

They should ban far more drunks from getting on trains. Too many getting on trains anyway, let alone when they get noisy and annoy other passengers.

The thing is how would you do it? I would probably fail a breath test at a weekend or sometimes through the week. I really don't get what you mean by too many getting on "let alone when they get noisy and annoy other passengers". It suggests that you wouldn't let them on if they were causing a problem or not?

 

[mrmartin]

London Overground are all dry trains. That's a lot of full time bans.

Edit: Though also not enforced at all. I've never seen anyone apart from on the DLR where someones been asked to stop drinking. At most stations people walk through the ticket barriers holding cans etc, so really pointless.

 

[sheff1]

I can imagine the announcement "Ladies and Gentlemen, we are now approaching Pontypridd where this service becomes dry. Please drink up or leave the train at the next station stop"

In Scotland, where drinking alcohol is banned on all trains after 2100 the norm, in my experience, on longer distance trains is to make an announcement around 15 mins or so before the deadline to allow people time to drink up. Can't say I have been on local trains at that time so don't know what happens with those.

 

[Busaholic]

London Overground are all dry trains. That's a lot of full time bans.

Edit: Though also not enforced at all. I've never seen anyone apart from on the DLR where someones been asked to stop drinking. At most stations people walk through the ticket barriers holding cans etc, so really pointless.

London Underground too. On the last day of drinking being allowed (several years ago now) organised groups of drinkers took to the trains.

 

[theageofthetra]

Seen drunks who can barely walk being turned away from York station after a big race day at York races.

 

[TEW]

I used to work on a gateline and it wasn't that uncommon to refuse people travel. Once it's at the point where someone is unable to walk properly it's the only option, for their own and others safety.

 

[headshot119]

I'm pretty sure it appears on the electronic display boards at stations in the area, though Arriva Trains Wales website just says selected lines - with a number to call for more details.

EDIT: Looks like it is banned



Source: Network Rail

I was going to say I think it's wrong, but the only place I ever see the message is on the PIS screens at Cathays, so perhaps it doesn't mention Caerphilly because Cathays isn't on that line?

 

[MichaelAMW]

Just to add that there are lots of places where there are partial or full bans on *drinking* on a particular route, for example the Robin Hood line (Nottingham - Worksop) so-called code of conduct has this requirement all the time, but this is not the same as invoking byelaw 4.2, which means you can't even take alcohol on the train. This is the case on the Worksop line from tea time on Friday and Saturday. Not quite sure what happens if you're quietly taking your shopping home from Mansfield to Shirebrook and have a few tins in your bag...

 

[takno]

I have witnessed people being refused at Edinburgh Waverley and Manchester Piccadilly. Both times the train was the last of the day to a destination well over 50 miles away.

My concern is the number of people who I have seen being allowed to board at stations where there has been a large BTP presence when they quite clearly should have been refused travel.

Drunk and agressive I tend to agree with. Drunk and staggering isn't a good state to deny people boarding the train to distant destinations, when you could well be leaving them to sleep on the streets. Scotrail went through a phase (which they seem to have recovered from) of actively taking delight in denying boarding at Glasgow, in several cases leaving vulnerable women stranded on the street.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Delving back into historical "Drunken Scotsman" jokes made by comedians from the times of the music halls, could it be said that those people had "Grandfather Rights" to travel....

 

[Mag_seven]

Delving back into historical "Drunken Scotsman" jokes made by comedians from the times of the music halls, could it be said that those people had "Grandfather Rights" to travel....

You could never get on an anglo-scottish in the 80's without seeing at least one table with 30 cans of McEwan's Export and a half bottle on it!

 

[55003]

There is one social media "personality" who it seems cannot travel on a preserved line unless he partakes in a lot of Gin. I wonder how much of an annoyance he and his party are to other travellers?
https://twitter.com/mrtimdunn/status/813866787993427972

 

[AntoniC]

A few years ago there was a short TV series showing the work of the BTP. On one of the programmes the BTP and railway staff were shown refusing admission to a station in Liverpool(?) to several totally inebriated potential 'customers', some in fancy dress and almost all being of mature years iirc, telling them to go and get sobered up before they came back. Playing up to the cameras by the BTP? Possibly, but I'd like to think not.

This programme is the one I believe you are referring to :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wki6GetWUA

It was filmed on Orange Lodge Day in Southport ( July 12th each year).

Its the one day of the year I try to avoid my local station of Southport.

 

[Mordac]

Those of us who are quiet drunks really resent getting tarred with the same brush as the loud and obnoxious drunks!

If I get on a train drunk(EDIT: not that I'm likely to do such a thing of course!), the only danger to other passengers is that I fall asleep and use them for support.

 

[LowLevel]

The problem is that happy drunks can become aggressive drunks quite quickly.

Happy drunks can also be vomiting drunks or 'I'm asleep here, I'm not getting off at the unmanned terminus' drunks.

I like to think I'm quite tolerant of drunks, being partial to partaking myself, but it's far from an exact art and my benchmark tends to be, in my professional judgment, 'would this person successfully get out of a burning train without being a hindrance to others'.

If a suggestion that someone has had enough is met with aggression then that cements the deal and they can go and pay out for a taxi.

Same if they don't bother to visit the booking office or TVM, no ticket sales on board, they're bounced at the door.

Unfortunately there's a reason we now have a hatful of compulsory dry trains every Friday and Saturday with police and security officers controlling boarding with the train guard.

 

[Robertj21a]

The thing is how would you do it? I would probably fail a breath test at a weekend or sometimes through the week. I really don't get what you mean by too many getting on "let alone when they get noisy and annoy other passengers". It suggests that you wouldn't let them on if they were causing a problem or not?

I wouldn't let any on who were clearly too inebriated to act responsibly. Obviously that won't stop every single instance, but it might reduce the numbers causing problems. Why should drunks be allowed to ruin other people's lives [not just on trains] ?

 

[D1009]

A few years ago there was a short TV series showing the work of the BTP. On one of the programmes the BTP and railway staff were shown refusing admission to a station in Liverpool(?) to several totally inebriated potential 'customers', some in fancy dress and almost all being of mature years iirc, telling them to go and get sobered up before they came back. Playing up to the cameras by the BTP? Possibly, but I'd like to think not.

I remember a documentary showing someone being refused access to a train to Liverpool at Southport station following some sort of festival there. I think the person concerned may have sworn at the BTP officer which didn't exactly help his cause.