Dry trains

[bearhugger]

After seeing a few posts on https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-on-board-trolleys.158523/page-3#post-3260414 about dry trains i wondered how strictly these are enforced throughout the country. Do train crew search passengers bags or BTP or security firms? What happens if people have an unopened bottle of wine or 4-pack of beer? Is the alcohol confiscated or poured down the nearest train?
I imagine it doesn't go down well with people who have too much already and want to have a couple more on their way home, and, I appreciate it's usually Saturday nights that dry trains are enforced, but seems "silly" that alcohol is served in stations and on-board during the rest of the week.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At Euston it is done by the BTP. If you have alcohol (opened or unopened) it is a choice of dispose of it or do not board the train.

Dry trains are only usually used for times when alcohol causes particular problems. In the rest of the week it doesn't, largely because people are having one on board having had none already, while on Fridays and Saturdays it's often the continuation of a night out.

If it becomes more widespread I prefer the TfL approach - you can take it on, but *opening* it is an offence.

 

[bearhugger]

If it becomes more widespread I prefer the TfL approach - you can take it on, but *opening* it is an offence.

That does seem a sensible approach to me, but are there staff keeping an eye out for people opening cans / bottles? I ask as from what I've seen on the 19:19 service from Whitby, which is a dry train on Saturdays on that service, people hide their alcohol until the guards are gone. there are suppossed to be security firms on but that doesn't always happen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That does seem a sensible approach to me, but are there staff keeping an eye out for people opening cans / bottles?

That's exactly why it is as it is, but if a 24/7 ban was to be implemented like on TfL it's a bit much not to be able to take some of your shopping home.

 

[yorksrob]

I think perhaps that long standing dry trains ought to be reviewed on a semi-regular basis to ensure that such designations are still appropriate.

 

[roversfan2001]

Dry trains are effectively unenforceable unless everyone is searched before boarding, which isn't very practical.

 

[eddp]

After seeing a few posts on https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-on-board-trolleys.158523/page-3#post-3260414 about dry trains i wondered how strictly these are enforced throughout the country. Do train crew search passengers bags or BTP or security firms? What happens if people have an unopened bottle of wine or 4-pack of beer? Is the alcohol confiscated or poured down the nearest train?

This happened in Cumbria a few months ago: http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/C...ggage-9ef9328d-71d2-4c96-81bc-b710fea0c27d-ds

She described returning from a week of hiking on Italy's Amalfi coast and arrived in Carlisle at 6.15pm on Saturday June 17, totally sober, and carrying her luggage – a rucksack and a small suitcase.

Stored in the suitcase were two three inch high, 50mls bottles of Limocello liqueur, each costing 3 Euro. They were presents for relatives.

But when she was about to board the train a male train safety officer told her that she and other passengers would be searched as part of the ongoing effort to make sure nobody takes alcohol on to the train.

She freely told him about the liqueur bottles in her luggage and was then told she would not be allowed on the train if wanted to keep them.

Eleanor said: “I offered to let one of the train staff keep the two bottles during my journey and then return them to me when I got off in Workington. He said they couldn't do that because it was a dry train.

“That was when he called over two female colleagues.“One of them suggested I take the bottles out of my suitcase, drink them, and then I'd be allowed on the train. I said: 'You've got to be joking.'”

 

[loobylou]

Merseyrail are hot on it. You cant even take unopened cans/bottles on if the enforcing officers think it may be opened in transit. To be fair, it's a good job due to the lack of toilets on board their trains.

 

[Robertj21a]

One of the Welsh Valley lines certainly tries to ensure it's enforced.

 

[Polarbear]

In theory, dry trains can be a good idea. Certainly, the erstwhile London Midland in it;'s latter years, had a ban on alcohol on services after 21:00 on some routes, which was brought in following repeated incidents on board trains. Another service that springs to mind is the morning Aberdeen - London service, which can carry a fair few workers returning home off the oil rigs, and consequently (I understand) is at least a dry train sometimes for part of its journey.

The problem is enforcement once the train has left it's point of origin. Unless each & every station is going to have an appropriate number of staff (backed up by security and/or police), which of course, is unrealistic, it is simply not possible to enforce a total ban.

As regards London Underground, it may well be an offence to have an open container of alcohol on board the services, but I've certainly seen people with beer, wine & even swigging out of vodka bottles on tube services, with seemingly no attempt made to do anything about it. Once such individuals are on tube trains, I'd suggest the best course of action would actually be to let them leave the network, unless they go on to cause a disturbance, or harass other customers.

Similarly, Merseyrail have a no-alcohol on board policy, but outside of certain times where the likes of Liverpool Central etc are policed, my experience is that this isn't enforced particularly stringently either. Again, resource doesn't permit anything else.

Having one (or maybe two) on board isn't an issue with me. It's when those one or two on board are in addition to the many already consumed prior to boarding the train that the problems start - and that's probably a discussion for another thread.

 

[Polarbear]

This happened in Cumbria a few months ago: http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/C...ggage-9ef9328d-71d2-4c96-81bc-b710fea0c27d-ds

In that instance, Northern should have looked after the bottles & forwarded them onto the customer (at their expense) once the journey had been completed. Dry trains are one things, but that's a big over-reaction to the situation.

Maybe breathalyzing customers before the board is next?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Merseyrail are hot on it. You cant even take unopened cans/bottles on if the enforcing officers think it may be opened in transit. To be fair, it's a good job due to the lack of toilets on board their trains.

Lots of times I have been to the football and had a bag of cans with me. Never has it been an issue if they are unopened, and in my experience most guards even if they see an open drink ignore it if it is not blatantly being drunk in front of them or being drunk by people who look "dodgy"

 

[chrish2]

Maybe breathalyzing customers before the board is next?

You joke but Northern seem not too far off doing that.

[northern] said anybody who turns up to travel at any of their city centre stations drunk may also be turned away.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ews/alcohol-ban-been-introduced-last-14010526

 

[Clansman]

After seeing a few posts on https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-on-board-trolleys.158523/page-3#post-3260414 about dry trains i wondered how strictly these are enforced throughout the country. Do train crew search passengers bags or BTP or security firms? What happens if people have an unopened bottle of wine or 4-pack of beer? Is the alcohol confiscated or poured down the nearest train?
I imagine it doesn't go down well with people who have too much already and want to have a couple more on their way home, and, I appreciate it's usually Saturday nights that dry trains are enforced, but seems "silly" that alcohol is served in stations and on-board during the rest of the week.

From what I've seen when the 9pm alcohol ban on ScotRail comes into force, passengers would be reminded via the tannoy, then if alcohol is found on someone throughout the journey, then they are asked to put it away or bin it. Then you'd come back into the coach 10 minutes later and everyone's drinking from Costa cups.

No further questions asked

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Having the 2042, 2111, 2142, 2219, 2242 and the 2321 TPE services from Manchester Piccadilly on a Friday and Saturday would make ideal dry trains. You just have the BTP searching bags "for security purposes" so one lot of BTP are operating in the lounge to platforms 13 and 14 with another batch of BTP operating around the station concourse. What does it for me is the neanderthal type behaviour that these drunkards display, which in my view their too p****d to travel and are a hazard.

This line is notorious since you have the Transpennine Ale Trail between Batley and Stalybridge which fuels the problem more, it seems to be a magnet for trouble.

 

[PHILIPE]

One of the Welsh Valley lines certainly tries to ensure it's enforced.

On trains above Pontypridd and Caerphilly

 

[PHILIPE]

This is a regular topic which crops up on the Forum from time to time, an example here:-

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/dry-trains.145642

 

[loobylou]

Lots of times I have been to the football and had a bag of cans with me. Never has it been an issue if they are unopened, and in my experience most guards even if they see an open drink ignore it if it is not blatantly being drunk in front of them or being drunk by people who look "dodgy"

maybe its harder to inforce on the football trains. I'm also not talking about the guards, the most they get involved with is feet on the seat. In my experience of Merseyrail, the ticket inspectors are very hot on alcohol and will confiscate unopened drinks too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

maybe its harder to inforce on the football trains. I'm also not talking about the guards, the most they get involved with is feet on the seat. In my experience of Merseyrail, the ticket inspectors are very hot on alcohol and will confiscate unopened drinks too.

They shouldn't be attempting to confiscate unopened drinks as the Byelaw does not make carrying unopened drinks an offence (unlike the one that regulates part-time dry trains like football trains).

 

[R Trevithick]

The amount of alcohol carried outside of a person is never as much of a problem as the amounts of alcohol carried inside of a person

 

[Bletchleyite]

The amount of alcohol carried outside of a person is never as much of a problem as the amounts of alcohol carried inside of a person

Quite - Merseyrail are fairly hot on that as well and do tell people to go away for a coffee and come back later sometimes.

 

[PR1Berske]

The amount of alcohol carried outside of a person is never as much of a problem as the amounts of alcohol carried inside of a person

Very well put.

 

[Master29]

Dry trains are effectively unenforceable unless everyone is searched before boarding, which isn't very practical.

True but it may become a problem after a few cans are cracked open and it starts to get a bit loud....Well, you can guess the results.

 

[takno]

Another service that springs to mind is the morning Aberdeen - London service, which can carry a fair few workers returning home off the oil rigs, and consequently (I understand) is at least a dry train sometimes for part of its journey.

That train is dry until Newcastle, periodically enforced by some kind of stewards. No rules again unopened alcohol that I'm aware of, and after Newcastle it's a free-for-all, although not much of one because it's still only early afternoon and all the heavy drinkers always used to be off by Newcastle anyway

 

[skyhigh]

Having the 2042, 2111, 2142, 2219, 2242 and the 2321 TPE services from Manchester Piccadilly on a Friday and Saturday would make ideal dry trains. You just have the BTP searching bags "for security purposes" so one lot of BTP are operating in the lounge to platforms 13 and 14 with another batch of BTP operating around the station concourse. What does it for me is the neanderthal type behaviour that these drunkards display, which in my view their too p****d to travel and are a hazard.

This line is notorious since you have the Transpennine Ale Trail between Batley and Stalybridge which fuels the problem more, it seems to be a magnet for trouble.

I'm slightly confused from your post - is this what happens, or what you'd like to happen?

 

[DarloRich]

ah the usual puritanical Rail UK wibble fest. Insert head shake icon here.

This happened in Cumbria a few months ago: http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/C...ggage-9ef9328d-71d2-4c96-81bc-b710fea0c27d-ds

incredibly stupid decision making.

maybe its harder to inforce on the football trains. I'm also not talking about the guards, the most they get involved with is feet on the seat. In my experience of Merseyrail, the ticket inspectors are very hot on alcohol and will confiscate unopened drinks too.

A dry train is most likely to be imposed around a football match. There will be BTP about to enforce it which there often wont be on a regular day.

Lots of times I have been to the football and had a bag of cans with me. Never has it been an issue if they are unopened, and in my experience most guards even if they see an open drink ignore it if it is not blatantly being drunk in front of them or being drunk by people who look "dodgy"

only had them confiscate booze when people act up or are being complete prats. If you are a real person they tend to take a more sensible approach and will let you take un opened booze on the train. if you turn up wearing club colours, walking an involuntary lambeth walk and signing they will have a word and take any booze a way. The BTP tend to be very practical.

Having the 2042, 2111, 2142, 2219, 2242 and the 2321 TPE services from Manchester Piccadilly on a Friday and Saturday would make ideal dry trains. You just have the BTP searching bags "for security purposes" so one lot of BTP are operating in the lounge to platforms 13 and 14 with another batch of BTP operating around the station concourse. What does it for me is the neanderthal type behaviour that these drunkards display, which in my view their too p****d to travel and are a hazard.

This line is notorious since you have the Transpennine Ale Trail between Batley and Stalybridge which fuels the problem more, it seems to be a magnet for trouble.

A preposterous idea and a complete waste of BTP resources. Your view seems to be: Take an evening out, commit the heinous RUK crime of having a couple of pints with mates, and be subject to vast breaches of civil liberates? You want to search your bag because I have had a pint or two? I don't think so. I have committed no crime, despite what many here think of people who dare to drink an alcohol. Can you just clarify how many pints I may consume before I am prevented form travelling?

 

[greyman42]

Trains from Kings Cross to the North East are usually dry after a football match on a Saturday involving Newcastle or Sunderland. BTP do enforce this although common sense does avail regarding non football supporters simply taking unopened alcohol home. Football supporters are not allowed to take alcohol on the train, even unopened. BTP are nearly always on these trains for the whole of the journey back to the North East to stop unpleasant behaviour.

 

[godfreycomplex]

ah the usual puritanical Rail UK wibble fest. Insert head shake icon here.



incredibly stupid decision making.



A dry train is most likely to be imposed around a football match. There will be BTP about to enforce it which there often wont be on a regular day.





A preposterous idea and a complete waste of BTP resources. Your view seems to be: Take an evening out, commit the heinous RUK crime of having a couple of pints with mates, and be subject to vast breaches of civil liberates? You want to search your bag because I have had a pint or two? I don't think so. I have committed no crime, despite what many here think of people who dare to drink an alcohol. Can you just clarify how many pints I may consume before I am prevented form travelling?

Where's that "like" button got to?

 

[greyman42]

Regarding how many pints you can consume before travelling, providing you can board the train unaided and you are not behaving in an unpleasant or offensive manner, then the sky is the limit.

 

[yorkie]

The amount of alcohol carried outside of a person is never as much of a problem as the amounts of alcohol carried inside of a person

I completely agree with you.

However, you can trust Northern Rail to disagree with anything sensible; see quote in post #7

“One of them suggested I take the bottles out of my suitcase, drink them, and then I'd be allowed on the train. I said: 'You've got to be joking.'”