Duplicate Bus Services

[RT4038]

Certainly by the time I entered the bus industry in 1971 this requirement had either been done away with or was generally ignored. Taking the very large ex-BET companies as an example, neither Ribble nor Midland Red had Duplicate, Extra or Relief on the blinds at all, Ribble had no stickers saying this, or foldable boards etc, and I never saw one on a Midland Red bus at any time. Birmingham City Transport did have the famously unhelpful "Service Extra" destination, but growing up in Birmingham I always thought that this was mostly used where the actual terminal point didn't appear on the blind fitted to the bus in use (perhaps because of interdepot transfers, obsolete blinds, odd peak period workings by different depots). Certainly buses that must have been duplicates (such as the streams of Bank Holiday buses to/from Rednal for the Lickey Hills) mostly showed the true destination - or as close as Birmingham ever got to that since they showed the outer terminus of a route in both directions.

As far as local stage carriage services were concerned, from the 40s to 86, nobody would have taken any notice of duplicate buses being operated, or at what times. Many (most) companies had clauses on their road service licences allowing additional trips to be operated 'in accordance with demand' anyway. The only exceptions to this would be those few routes or part routes which were shared between state owned and private companies, where any endemic sharp practice may have been reported to the TC. Express/long distance services were a bit different, where BR were active in trying to reduce competition with their services. (The railway had long since given up worrying about competition by local buses).
In the company that I started work with in '74, duplicates were almost always only working part trip anyway - it was rare to send a 'dup' the full route - on Wednesdays (market day)the 9.28 from X village to town would be 'duped' from Y because the service car would always overload. On Schooldays the 4.20pm from town to X was duped to Y. The 'dup' was loaded second but then ran in front. On arrival at Y any remaining passengers on board were transferred to the service car travelling behind. If, for some reason (sports day etc) the service car had plenty of seats at departure time, the 'dup' wouldn't go.

 

[Ken H]

In Leeds the small Wellington St Bus Stn would overload on summer saturdays when all the weekly buses went to holiday resorts. So they used a nearby car park to send buses from. Bean Ings Car park was used for quite a few years. How many of the buses were duplicates I don't know but queues were epic.

 

[route101]

Megabus used too have Dupes on the London to Glasgow M11 service. One would go direct (Often a Citylink Panther) and the other was a Vanhool operating the usual stops. They still have this dupe I believe but is sold as the M11X and operated by Macleans.

 

[43055]

When I was growing up I remember seeing some buses with 'DUPLICATE' in the destination blind, which my former bus driver dad explained was displayed when services were so busy an extra bus would run behind the timetabled service.

Setting aside the obvious in that driver shortages can't guarantee the existing timetabled services in many parts of the country, is the practice of running a duplicate bus still legally possible?

I was prompted to think of this as a Van Hool Astromega left Kilmarnock bus station this morning absolutely rammed for the X76 service to Glasgow, with a queue still waiting and who would have to wait for the next bus 30 minutes later. This obviously isn't usual as the trains are on strike, so I was wondering if there was additional capacity could Stagecoach simply have put 2 coaches on that service.

A couple of times recently I have seen Notts & Derby run U1's (Derby station - University) with 'Duplicate' on the front.

 

[WibbleWobble]

To answer the question of where duplicates sit with regards to registrations, they don't need to be registered if they are a short term remedy due to high demand (summer weather, special event etc).

If it is going to run more permanently, say because a peak bus cannot handle the demand so a relief is needed every day, then that has to be registered.

I'm not sure on the duration, the DfT guidlines are vague ("reasonable duration").

 

[markymark2000]

To answer the question of where duplicates sit with regards to registrations, they don't need to be registered if they are a short term remedy due to high demand (summer weather, special event etc).

If it is going to run more permanently, say because a peak bus cannot handle the demand so a relief is needed every day, then that has to be registered.

I'm not sure on the duration, the DfT guidlines are vague ("reasonable duration").

At a guess, I would say it's the same as what their guidelines are for long term diversions which is the registration period. Same for regular coach trips. Around 6 weeks is the figure they put on them. Longer than 6 weeks should be registered.


That is purely a guess based off what they say for some other things though.

 

[Lewisham2221]

During Covid, First Potteries, added extra duplicates on several services mainly during school hours
Example 10 Hanley to Stafford , has school dupes as S101
The section of the 3/3A between Hanley and Tunstall (normally every 10 minutes Monday to Hanley , had dupes , which meant a 5 minute service

As I understand it, these were fully scheduled extra journeys, properly registered with the Traffic Commissioner (albeit under the more relaxed short notice rules permitted due to covid). There were, very briefly, some fully fledged duplicates operated for services that were seen to be leaving Hanley Bus Station "full" (as per covid capacity restrictions). More commonly in the area are duplicates on the Keele University service, particularly at the beginning and end of terms, often from the Uni to Newcastle(under Lyme) or the railway station.

 

[Sprinter150]

A few years ago, due to excess bookings, National Express, put duplicate for a Victoria to Liverpool via Stoke-on-Trent. One coach went direct to Liverpool only while another went direct to Stoke-on-Trent

During Covid, First Potteries, added extra duplicates on several services mainly during school hours
Example 10 Hanley to Stafford , has school dupes as S101
The section of the 3/3A between Hanley and Tunstall (normally every 10 minutes Monday to Hanley , had dupes , which meant a 5 minute service

Also in Staffordshire, and during Covid restrictions, Arriva ran duplicates on since-replaced service 825 Stafford to Lichfield. I recall seeing them in around June 2020 (presumably only on peak time services) and before frequency on the corridor was restored to two buses per hour in (I think) July.

 

[richw]

When I was managing a small independent company about 7-8 years ago, the company owner told me if I ran a dupe it had to be +-5 mins rather than the 10 mentioned previously in this thread.

Here’s what the office of the transport commissioner says in printed leaflet
Operating registered local bus services in England (except London) andWales
Guide forOperators

There may be times when, due to special circumstances, the number of vehicles normally used to provide the service will not be sufficient to carry all persons wishing to travel or will not be able to provide the service in accordance with the registered timetable. Under these circumstances additional vehicle(s) may be put into service, to operate over any part of the route of the service without the need to vary the registration. They must be operated as closely as possible to the timings in the registered timetable.
If it is a regular occurrence that the usual number of vehicles used to provide the service is unable to carry all the persons wishing to travel, that is not a special circumstance.
The traffic commissioner may take the view that unregistered local services have been operated if there are no special circumstances which warrant the provision of additional vehicle(s).

 

[davehsug]

When I was much younger, some PMT buses, I remember Atlanteans in particular, used to have a fold down sign with Duplicate on in the front winscreen, rather like a cars fold down sun shield.

 

[Geordie driver]

Going back to the days of cloth destination blinds, if you put duplicate up there would be nothing else to indicate where the bus was going on our buses, which you need if it's going to be a short run. I was never aware of any rules, no one was watching anyway, it was about providing a decent service.

Pre deregulation, United Automobile Services out of Newcastle, we would run duplicates on match days, usually shorts to Cramlington on my rota, or late runs at a weekend which would be overloaded without a dupe.

If you were spare and hadn't been used this might be the only run you do for the whole shift, or they might ask an early finisher to stay back. Nice little earner at time and a half, you might be paid from 13 30 to 18 30 just for a half hour run. Wouldn't happen now, company would expect you to clock off and they don't care about the quality of the service.