E M R - a pretentious brand with nothing to back it up? (yes I know, mainly DFT's fault)

[LowLevel]

The Regional rolling stock isn't really any worse than the several years of the multi coloured swap shop that existed under East Midlands Trains (153s and 158s from the length and breadth of the country in varying states of dereliction) which was eventually sorted out and standardised.

Before that you had Central Trains with, what a surprise - a motley mix of random rolling stock that was collected from all over the place! Largely ex BR condition indigenous 153, 156 and 158 (the 158s were painted green and got new seat covers and some green and blue trim tape, the others were painted green eventually and kept their Regional Railways interiors until EMT refurbished them). Class 170s from Midland Mainline and Porterbrook. Class 158s from TPE with the remnants of 3 different liveries. Class 150s from Anglia.

It's nothing new - just problems elsewhere have prolonged the issue here.

Having spent years shoehorning people into 153s with water pouring through the ceiling and window seals the pre loved 170s are luxury. Passenger numbers on routes like Derby to Crewe are through the roof with direct trains to Nottingham and half decent rolling stock.

The service largely runs. Not always with all the carriages but it's fairly reliable. It is not glamorous but it's well used and appreciated and I may be biased but I think the staff are some of the best around, putting up with being a cinderella operation and managing very well by and large.

They have always employed a lot of caring, down to earth people who get on with it and going back years "doing the right thing" for people has been a mantra there. It isn't always right, but it usually is.

The service standard on the Intercity trains has been in decline for the last 15 years or more but MML were always going to be a hard act to follow and maintain.

Miles is popular. It winds some people up, but kids love it and it gets attention.

It is a shame it's unlikely to ever fully live up to expectations but having seen how bad Greater Anglia was I'm hopeful for the future.

 

[43066]

The service largely runs. Not always with all the carriages but it's fairly reliable. It is not glamorous but it's well used and appreciated and I may be biased but I think the staff are some of the best around, putting up with being a cinderella operation and managing very well by and large.

They have always employed a lot of caring, down to earth people who get on with it and going back years "doing the right thing" for people has been a mantra there. It isn't always right, but it usually is.

This sums it up perfectly, and indeed reflects the general consensus on this forum over the years. I have relatively little experience of the regional side, but the TOC as a whole is “no nonsense”, and just quietly gets on with things. I’ve criticised Miles myself, but it’s pretty inoffensive, and such is the way of marketing campaigns these days. Far from being pretentious, as a brand, I’d say it’s pretty self-effacing and forgettable!

The OP is so OTT it almost reads like parody. I suspect it was deliberately hammed up in order to cause controversy and prompt discussion, as is that particular poster’s style.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I suspect it was deliberately hammed up in order to cause controversy and prompt discussion, as is that particular poster’s style.

Rather distasteful personal remarks like that only speak unfavourably of your own character. I'm aware your opinion of my posts is also biased by your dislike of my views on strike action, but that isn't involved in this thread's topic in the slightest; feel free to ignore the thread if you wish. I personally want to know if others share my opinion or believe a different T.O.C. to be the most desperately in need of improvements.

Moving on hastily...

The Regional rolling stock isn't really any worse than the several years of the multi coloured swap shop that existed under East Midlands Trains (153s and 158s from the length and breadth of the country in varying states of dereliction) which was eventually sorted out and standardised.

Before that you had Central Trains with, what a surprise - a motley mix of random rolling stock that was collected from all over the place! Largely ex BR condition indigenous 153, 156 and 158 (the 158s were painted green and got new seat covers and some green and blue trim tape, the others were painted green eventually and kept their Regional Railways interiors until EMT refurbished them). Class 170s from Midland Mainline and Porterbrook. Class 158s from TPE with the remnants of 3 different liveries. Class 150s from Anglia.

It's nothing new - just problems elsewhere have prolonged the issue here.

Having spent years shoehorning people into 153s with water pouring through the ceiling and window seals the pre loved 170s are luxury. Passenger numbers on routes like Derby to Crewe are through the roof with direct trains to Nottingham and half decent rolling stock.

The service largely runs. Not always with all the carriages but it's fairly reliable. It is not glamorous but it's well used and appreciated and I may be biased but I think the staff are some of the best around, putting up with being a cinderella operation and managing very well by and large.

They have always employed a lot of caring, down to earth people who get on with it and going back years "doing the right thing" for people has been a mantra there. It isn't always right, but it usually is.

The service standard on the Intercity trains has been in decline for the last 15 years or more but MML were always going to be a hard act to follow and maintain.

Miles is popular. It winds some people up, but kids love it and it gets attention.

It is a shame it's unlikely to ever fully live up to expectations but having seen how bad Greater Anglia was I'm hopeful for the future.

Thanks for this post, as it's intriguing to learn that Central Trains and early East Midlands Trains were in similar situations. If anything, the purpose of the thread (other than to reply to a comment about EMR without dragging the original thread off-topic) was to discuss my point of view on how discombobulated the operation looks from an external perspective, and whether others agreed that it stood out from others. Your post has given an interesting comparison with previous TOCs.

 

[Russel]

To me, EMR are very reminiscent of the early days of Central Trains.

It's sad to see the damage Abellio have done, under Stagecoach the fleet was always fairly presentable, now it's a disgrace, I know a lot of the fleet is being replaced but that isn't an excuse for just giving up.

 

[THC]

Rather distasteful personal remarks like that only speak unfavourably of your own character. I'm aware your opinion of my posts is also biased by your dislike of my views on strike action, but that isn't involved in this thread's topic in the slightest; feel free to ignore the thread if you wish. I personally want to know if others share my opinion or believe a different T.O.C. to be the most desperately in need of improvements.

You're very quick to lob grenades but then act like a wounded puppy when people respond to you in kind. It might be worth considering the common factor in all the rudeness you encounter as outlined in your first post. Suggest you develop a little self-awareness and perhaps in future pause before you hit the "post reply" button.

THC

 

[dk1]

It’s the poor exterior cleanliness that I’ve always associated with EMR & EMT/MML/CT before them. Do they pay less visits through the wash plant or are they just very poor at catching up with a hand bash? Over the years so much of the fleet seems to have a layer of grime. The state of some of the 222s passing through Sheffield last week was truly grim.

 

[Dore & Totley]

As a resident of Sheffield and a regular user since Midland Mainline days there are three reasons I have given up on EMR. First, the major reason is price, try booking months in advance it's a stock £87 for a day return. I save sometimes half that going via Doncaster. The other two are very minor niggles, in first on a weekend no free pop, only water or orange juice. Second, which is not EMRs fault, at King's Cross it's way quicker into the Underground.

 

[WizCastro197]

It’s the poor exterior cleanliness that I’ve always associated with EMR & EMT/MML/CT before them. Do they pay less visits through the wash plant or are they just very poor at catching up with a hand bash? Over the years so much of the fleet seems to have a layer of grime. The state of some of the 222s passing through Sheffield last week was truly grim.

Yes a little disgusting. A bit like southeastern then!

As a resident of Sheffield and a regular user since Midland Mainline days there are three reasons I have given up on EMR. First, the major reason is price, try booking months in advance it's a stock £87 for a day return. I save sometimes half that going via Doncaster. The other two are very minor niggles, in first on a weekend no free pop, only water or orange juice. Second, which is not EMRs fault, at King's Cross it's way quicker into the Underground.

Yes there was a thread about the price of tickets somewhere on the Disputes and Prosecutions section of the forum. About someone who needed to get to London, but the ticket cost was so high from Kettering no matter how far in advance they paid.

I link it if I can find it

 

[Merle Haggard]

One thing I find puzzling is their class 180's (un)reliability.
It seems that there are four sets to cover two diagrams, but even this seems too demanding. Weekday mornings, two Class 180s should leave Etches Park coupled together, run e.c.s. to Nottingham and form an up service before being split at St Pancras to run singles to and from Nottingham. Over the last few weeks, there was one week when, on both Tuesday and Thursday, the e.c.s. from Etches Park didn't run at all, and on many other occasions, only one set came out - obviously resulting in cancellations on the St. Pancras Nottingham circuit.
One set that does come out a lot is the 4 car one - sometimes it's the only one out. It then finds itself on a very busy late afternoon up Nottingham service which leaves people behind at Leicester. Of course, it's now the only 4 car Inter City set in the fleet.

So why is 50% availability unachievable? Why is it not possible to concentrate on getting the 5 cars sets out rather than the 4 car? and, if the answer to that is that one of the 5 cars sets is in a very poor state and DfT won't let money be spent on it, why can't a MS from it be transferred to the 4 car set? Is a target of 50% availability the most undemanding on the whole network? Even RfD's 47s achieved a lot better than that...

Intestingly, we were told that the H.S.T.s made diagramming inefficient because they only worked on the St. Pancras - Nottingham axis (forced lengthy lay-overs at one end to provide a clock face service). But the 180s (apart from the last run) only run St Pancras - Nottingham.

 

[yorksrob]

One thing I find puzzling is their class 180's (un)reliability.
It seems that there are four sets to cover two diagrams, but even this seems too demanding. Weekday mornings, two Class 180s should leave Etches Park coupled together, run e.c.s. to Nottingham and form an up service before being split at St Pancras to run singles to and from Nottingham. Over the last few weeks, there was one week when, on both Tuesday and Thursday, the e.c.s. from Etches Park didn't run at all, and on many other occasions, only one set came out - obviously resulting in cancellations on the St. Pancras Nottingham circuit.
One set that does come out a lot is the 4 car one - sometimes it's the only one out. It then finds itself on a very busy late afternoon up Nottingham service which leaves people behind at Leicester. Of course, it's now the only 4 car Inter City set in the fleet.

So why is 50% availability unachievable? Why is it not possible to concentrate on getting the 5 cars sets out rather than the 4 car? and, if the answer to that is that one of the 5 cars sets is in a very poor state and DfT won't let money be spent on it, why can't a MS from it be transferred to the 4 car set? Is a target of 50% availability the most undemanding on the whole network? Even RfD's 47s achieved a lot better than that...

Intestingly, we were told that the H.S.T.s made diagramming inefficient because they only worked on the St. Pancras - Nottingham axis (forced lengthy lay-overs at one end to provide a clock face service). But the 180s (apart from the last run) only run St Pancras - Nottingham.

The 180's unreliability was a known problem long before they reached EMR. It was being pointed out on this forum as soon as the DfT's insane, half-baked plan to replace the HST fleet with them materialised.

 

[LowLevel]

Thanks for this post, as it's intriguing to learn that Central Trains and early East Midlands Trains were in similar situations. If anything, the purpose of the thread (other than to reply to a comment about EMR without dragging the original thread off-topic) was to discuss my point of view on how discombobulated the operation looks from an external perspective, and whether others agreed that it stood out from others. Your post has given an interesting comparison with previous TOCs.

EMT were still operating green Central class 153s 4.5 years after taking the franchise on as the paint was in warranty - the last were painted in mid 2012, the franchise dating from 2007. Thus was because Central Trains having started painting stock green in 1999 didn't get around to finishing until 2004/2005 and some stock finished the franchise in BR liveries after 10 years (class 323).

It’s the poor exterior cleanliness that I’ve always associated with EMR & EMT/MML/CT before them. Do they pay less visits through the wash plant or are they just very poor at catching up with a hand bash? Over the years so much of the fleet seems to have a layer of grime. The state of some of the 222s passing through Sheffield last week was truly grim.

If you look at pictures from the EMT era it's striking how much cleaner it was actually. Some of this is down to continual depot works but also the wash plants seem particularly unreliable. The 222s seem to have acquired a habit of coating themselves in diesel or oil which is a bugger to get off.

 

[dk1]

If you look at pictures from the EMT era it's striking how much cleaner it was actually. Some of this is down to continual depot works but also the wash plants seem particularly unreliable. The 222s seem to have acquired a habit of coating themselves in diesel or oil which is a bugger to get off.

I found the 222s looked better in EMT days but the HSTs where prone to looking rough. The 158s where often not too bad especially those washed each night at Crown Point but the 156s that occasionally turned up where again coated in grime from top to toe. Comparing EMR at St.Pancras to those operators operating out of Kings Cross & Euston really shows up how bad they are.

 

[AndyW33]

They weren’t much use at so for Leeds passengers (other than a token number of enthusiasts who put up with the significantly longer journey times just so they could stick their head out of the window)

Really, they were placing journeys from Neville Hill (since Sheffield doesn’t have a proper depot), leaving Leeds far too early in the morning and returning far too late in the evening to suit most passengers - not only are the Leeds - MML - St Pancras trains a lot slower than Leeds - ECML - King’s Cross, but the Midland Mainline/ EMT services generally compounded this by running via Doncaster and/or Nottingham, adding even more time

They seemed a reasonable enough use of stock (given that the trains would be running ECS otherwise), and the morning services were generally on time (given that they’d just come straight from the depot), but they were essentially an irrelevance as far as Leeds passengers were concerned

if MM/EMT had wanted to give them some reason for being then I’d have suggested diverting them via either Barnsley or Rotherham so that at least these towns had some token London service (it wouldn’t have been used by huge numbers, but I’d have been a fairly cheap way of getting good publicity and a token London service would have been more use here than the strange decision to run via Doncaster

I'd agree with this, and add that in the immediate post-privatisation period the Leeds service extensions were also described as an ORCATS raid on the Leeds-London and Leeds-Sheffield pots of fare revenue, the vast majority of travellers on these journeys found the all-day services of other operators vastly more useful than a handful of MML/EMT/EMR trains at the very beginning and end of the day. They did run via Rotherham, but couldn't stop because BR had closed Rotherham Masborough station and demolished the platforms. Diversion via Rotherham Central might have brought issues with pathing through the single line section and also platform length there. MML did have a try at Barnsley by extending some 170-worked Sheffield services to/from there, at times more convenient to passengers, but this didn't seem to last long

 

[dk1]

Another issue with the class 158 exterior (& maybe other fleets) is the use of vinyl rather than paint. This soon collects dirt & grime if not looked after.

 

[Merle Haggard]

The 180's unreliability was a known problem long before they reached EMR. It was being pointed out on this forum as soon as the DfT's insane, half-baked plan to replace the HST fleet with them materialised.

I take your point, but I recollect some posts here stated that their reliability was low because of poor maintenance standards at their previous operators and these would be much higher with East Midland Trains/Railway. I recollect that they spent some time at Derby before entering service, to allow for staff training.
There was also a statement on here somewhere that E.M.R. intended to keep the 180s after the 222s had been replace by 80x trains - but the extremely tatty interiors do not suggest that they are intended to be around for long, though.
I asked for other candidates for a fleet with 50% availability but I overlooked the Connect 360s (11 out of 20, so slightly better...)

 

[driverd]

So, to take this back to the OP (was this a split from another thread?), it appears to me that the central thrust of this whole thread is marketing and the apparent disjoint between brand and product.

Specifically:

Avanti and LNER are suffering the worst effects of a national problem that comes from ineffective rostering. If that is put to one side, EMR really stand out as a horrendous operation. The fact they put on this massive promotion of themselves as a strong brand, introducing mascots and big adverts and promos and stuff, without anything to back it up is what gets to me the most.

(Quick tangent: arguably, atleast in t'north, LNER seem to be doing alright for rostering, but nobody mention TPE (I know, when they run what's fast becoming a parliamentary service on one of the north's mainlines, they're easy to forget about)).

But, the central thrust here, to my mind, is about marketing and the disjoint between how the business perceives and presents itself, to how it really is. So to go with that angle:

Many of the gateline staff at St Pancras are also somewhat unpleasant, I find.

Absolutely agree. Give London Euston a run for their money. Customer service training is such an easy win and can be implemented as informally as by having a change in management style. A tad at loggerheads with a brand that sells itself on the warm and fuzzy feeling of a cuddly toy.

The fact no plans for a refurbishment have progressed despite their fleet having ridiculous amount of different types of companies interiors (EMT, VTEC, LM, pre satire SR, SN, GA, HT, Anglia Railways) in completely random colours - all of which are knackered - three and a half years on from their taking over of the franchise.

I mean, personally I love this. Takes me back to my childhood - in the late 90s/early 00s it was quite exciting just to see what train would rock up as they all had such diverse interiors and interesting looks/liveries (early(ish) privatisation fleet shuffles). But nostalgia aside, in terms of branding - absolutely its not a good look.

I'd add to that, that the livery application and lack of consistency absolutely fuels brand disjoint - we have some shiny 170s in gorgeous, smart purple. Then there's no less than 4 different 156 liveries. And irrespective of livery, almost every interior is threadbare. Looking at this purely from a marketing angle, this just seems confused.

A lot of this is down to unfortunate circumstances, such as the DfT and changes to fleet funding and what routes stay with them and what goes, etc., I'm completely aware, but I'm not necessarily blaming the company in general for the fact they're a mess (although a fair bit of it is down to them too). I'm simply pointing out that they are a mess.

And to great pains you went to make that point - personally I'm in completely agreement, they are a mess. But I'm not sure the purpose of this thread was to argue the veracity of that statement from an operational standpoint?

Surely I'm not the only one frustrated by EMR's constant attempts to make out that they're some iconic, well-established brand when they're so sloppy?

Right - and the risk here is that you end up in a situation where management (or brand management, specifically) live in pure fantasy land, where the business can do no wrong. This results in a massive disjoint between how staff on the ground view the business and how management view the business. In my career, I've seen it absolutely damage one TOC internally, where the management and brand : staff and customer experience disjoint was so vast, that customer and staff feedback was basically ignored as an attack on the brand. It lead to front line staff demoralisation on an epic scale, as no one would acknowledge where the operation really was. It really harms the businesses culture (although if this is the case at EMR, I have no idea).

Yet, a strong brand can also have its merits. If you're looking to take a brand with very poor cohesion or demoralised staff, it's a great way to give everyone something to rally behind and work to build. The main problem here, is central to this scheme is staff buy in and generally that has to be backed up with tangible improvements - to show staff (and customers), that your strong brand and strong values are what you live by; your business has integrity. I suspect its this point that the OP is trying to get at.

 

[Iskra]

If we’re talking about brand vs reality dissonance, then Caledonian Sleeper is probably the worst, but I suspect the OP approves of their luxury marketing despite the train service being Premier Inn on wheels, so they escape his ire, despite the gap being much wider than with EMR.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't think EMR are overly brand obsessed in comparison to any other TOC past or present. Yes, they have a livery, corporate style and Miles (I quite like Miles) but don't all TOC's have such things.

The TPE advertising is very good, although sadly in that instance, the product really isn't there yet

 

[LowLevel]

One thing that I would agree is somewhat jarring is the ads with Miles bouncing around the place on smart new trains, when the reality is somewhat different. My personal opinion is that they should have kept the powder dry for when that offering was the reality, rather than providing the burghers of Wellingborough with a stick to beat them with.

 

[yorksrob]

One thing I have noticed is that the 222's have been re-upholstered over the past few years, which helps.

 

[driverd]

If we’re talking about brand vs reality dissonance, then Caledonian Sleeper is probably the worst, but I suspect the OP approves of their luxury marketing despite the train service being Premier Inn on wheels, so they escape his ire, despite the gap being much wider than with EMR.

Okay, sorry, I couldn't help but jump in here because I am absolutely the guy on the page that you perceive the OP to be on. To compare:

Caledonian sleeper positions itself as a luxury brand, and I believe that is absolutely backed up in the flesh, too. Frankly, they're a well presented business, with consistent brand messaging and very high levels of attention to detail that generally run into the product offered. The mk5s (bogies aside) are fantastic - the spec on them pays such diligent attention to detail, from branding on interior fittings (in a not-too-crass way), to the well considered layout and fittment of the lounge car that absolutely screams luxury above and beyond that offered by any other TOCs product (and when your lowest class of travel is a slightly better kitted out version of your nearest competitors premier offering, you can't be missing the mark too much as a luxury brand). I could go on (and on) but in the interests of not taking this in a tangential direction I'll truncate the list here.

They have their foibles, but fundamentally they are still "on wheels" (whatever type of hotel they may be) and, in my eyes, offer superb value for money when compared with the cost of the luxury hotel + first class travel alternative (which is the most viable comparison).

EMR, meanwhile... May I draw your attention the OPs list.

 

[yorksrob]

Where does EMR claim to be a luxury brand ?

 

[Iskra]

Okay, sorry, I couldn't help but jump in here because I am absolutely the guy on the page that you perceive the OP to be on. To compare:

Caledonian sleeper positions itself as a luxury brand, and I believe that is absolutely backed up in the flesh, too. Frankly, they're a well presented business, with consistent brand messaging and very high levels of attention to detail that generally run into the product offered. The mk5s (bogies aside) are fantastic - the spec on them pays such diligent attention to detail, from branding on interior fittings (in a not-too-crass way), to the well considered layout and fittment of the lounge car that absolutely screams luxury above and beyond that offered by any other TOCs product (and when your lowest class of travel is a slightly better kitted out version of your nearest competitors premier offering, you can't be missing the mark too much as a luxury brand).

They have their foibles, but fundamentally they are still on wheels and, in my eyes, offer superb value for money when compared with the cost of the luxury hotel + first class travel alternative (which is the most viable comparison).

EMR, meanwhile... May I draw your attention the OPs list.

I enjoyed my trip on CS earlier this year, because I knew what to expect. Those passengers who were taken in by the glossy marketing were left extremely disappointed, with broken fittings, toilets out of service, reduced catering offering due to staffing issues, having to get out of bed at 0100 to move a bike between coaches, room downgrades. There was some extreme dissatisfaction amongst some high paying passengers on board.

The marketing is wonderful, but the product falls short.

 

[driverd]

I enjoyed my trip on CS earlier this year, because I knew what to expect. Those passengers who were taken in by the glossy marketing were left extremely disappointed, with broken fittings, toilets out of service, reduced catering offering due to staffing issues, having to get out of bed at 0100 to move a bike between coaches, room downgrades. There was some extreme dissatisfaction amongst some high paying passengers on board.

The marketing is wonderful, but the product falls short.

Sure, but equally, room tours and pictures are available all over the website. Certainly, for me, whenever I book a hotel I'll have a good browse at the photos and details of the product offered. As it's such a unique product, I'd certainly be wanting to set my expectations, reading reviews etc. I'd also argue that the product overall, for a rail product, is the best in the UK (in terms of a regular service train). A luxury train service, it definitely is.

What was the customer service like when they complained after the event?

 

[Hairy Bear]

One thing I have noticed is that the 222's have been re-upholstered over the past few years, which helps.

Yes but since then we have replaced them with soiled and torn ones. Don't want to be confused with x/c.

 

[43066]

Rather distasteful personal remarks like that only speak unfavourably of your own character.

I made an observation of your posting style. I’m clearly also not the only respondent who found your OP ridiculously over the top. The only “personal remark” here appears to be by you, against me.

I'm aware your opinion of my posts is also biased by your dislike of my views on strike action, but that isn't involved in this thread's topic in the slightest;

Strike action is indeed off topic, I note the only person bringing it up is you. My opinion of your posts is based purely on their content. You will note I have been broadly in agreement with you in other areas.

feel free to ignore the thread if you wish.

Are you for real?! Whoever you may think you are, you are not a moderator on this forum, so I’m not sure why you think you’re in any position to give unsolicited “advice” such as this?

Rest assured, I will continue to respond as I see fit to whichever threads I wish.

Absolutely agree. Give London Euston a run for their money. Customer service training is such an easy win and can be implemented as informally as by having a change in management style. A tad at loggerheads with a brand that sells itself on the warm and fuzzy feeling of a cuddly toy.

What exactly is it you’re expecting them to do differently, in terms of “customer service”? They stand at the gate line and let people with tickets through it, in my experience.

The St Pancras gateline has its drawbacks, and is far too small for the numbers using it, which doesn’t help matters.

 

[WizCastro197]

I made an observation of your posting style. I’m clearly also not the only respondent who found your OP ridiculously over the top. The only “personal remark” here appears to be by you, against me.



Strike action is indeed off topic, I note the only person bringing it up is you. My opinion of your posts is based purely on their content. You will note I have been broadly in agreement with you in other areas.



Are you for real?! Whoever you may think you are, you are not a moderator on this forum, so I’m not sure why you think you’re in any position to give unsolicited “advice” such as this?

Rest assured, I will continue to respond as I see fit to whichever threads I wish.



What exactly is it you’re expecting them to do differently, in terms of “customer service”? They stand at the gate line and let people with tickets through it, in my experience.

The St Pancras gateline has its drawbacks, and is far too small for the numbers using it, which doesn’t help matters.

Yes, I don't understand why people say these things ( I am agreeing with you my the way @43066), it isn't like you are going to have a 20 minute conversation with them. You'll see them for probably 5 seconds and claimed 'unpleasant interactions', which probably don't occur anyway, will probably leave your mind as soon as your out of the station.

I agree, that gateline is far too small considering that when trains are delayed, the Nottingham originated and the Sheffield Originated trains normally come in in quick succession which then forces gateline staff to keep the gates open from the large influx of passengers. Although I don't think travelling without a ticket is a major problem on EMR London bound trains as between Leicester and St Pancras non stop services, fare dodging isn't really a problem since they are always checked between these stations, not sure about the Corby - London services as I am unaware if there are checks and I don't know about the Nottingham-STP trains and where/when those tickets are checked.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Not sure about the criticisms about EMR - try SWR!!

 

[WizCastro197]

Not sure about the criticisms about EMR - try SWR!!

I honestly don't have a massive problem with SWR (sure seat reservations would be great on longer distance services eg. Waterloo-Weymouth- or Waterloo Exeter) I guess if you live in the area with that TOC, you are more likely to notice small errors but OP lists their location as Cardiff but I am still unsure.

But it is off topic.

Sure, but equally, room tours and pictures are available all over the website. Certainly, for me, whenever I book a hotel I'll have a good browse at the photos and details of the product offered. As it's such a unique product, I'd certainly be wanting to set my expectations, reading reviews etc. I'd also argue that the product overall, for a rail product, is the best in the UK (in terms of a regular service train). A luxury train service, it definitely is.

What was the customer service like when they complained after the event?

EMR have never said they are a luxury brand at all. Where are these false illusions coming from?

I don't think EMR are overly brand obsessed in comparison to any other TOC past or present. Yes, they have a livery, corporate style and Miles (I quite like Miles) but don't all TOC's have such things.

The TPE advertising is very good, although sadly in that instance, the product really isn't there yet

I think Miles' introduction as a cuddly toy should've been delayed until after the introduction of the 810s and 360's seat covering change. It would've worked better in the end anyway

 

[Skymonster]

EMR is, unfortunately, more about style than substance. Sure, mostly - but not always - the trains turn up, which is a positive, but beyond that under Abelio the franchise seems to be a mess of broken promises and failure to deliver. We have a network of two halves - the Intercity operation has been in managed decline since the glory days of Midland Mainline (worse under Stagecoach, worse even more now), while the regional operation improved after Central Trains demise but has got worse since Stagecoach bowed out.

Most noticeable - from the style rather than substance theme - is that there seems to be time and money for fancy marketing schemes, and yet not for train interior refurbishments. Likewise, the downtime and money seems to be available for repaints, but not for seats or onboard facilities. Lots of broken promises about refurbs in the franchise bid - trains to be done inside and out, wifi on every train, etc - and yet none of this has been done. What wifi there is seems to be broken quite frequently, while no trains have had it fitted during Abelio’s tenure as far as I’m away. Honestly I don’t care what colour the train is on the outside, but I do care about onboard facilities and the disgraceful state of the seats in the Meridians - which, coincidently, EMR said in a press release in May this year would be recovered, and yet experience over the last couple of weeks shows no evidence has even started: 5,400 new seat covers to be fitted at Etches Park - how long should it take before there‘s some sign of progress? Even last week parts of Derby station were being painted in EMR purple - what a waste, get the guy changing Meridian seat covers instead. But like I say - style rather than substance. The 810s were originally going to start to be introduced this year - which would just about make the state of the Meridian fleet excusable - but now it seems unlikely the new fleet will turn a wheel in public service much before the end of next year, if we‘re lucky. And of course the dreadful 180s seem set to remain.

Similarly, there’s always claims of EMR being chronically short of units, and yet last weekend there were three 156s and three 170s languishing at Barrow Hill [I know, I know, EMR apologists will soon be along citing staff training, covid, blah, blah - there’s only so long these excuses wash, and I think its expired]. And don’t even get me started on things like First Class lounges, which all other operators managed to reopen post covid while EMR’s remained shut - or used as staff accommodation in some cases. Then there’s things like clearing up rubbish, which seems to have got worse. Tidying up the tables etc during a turnround now seems to be an occasional maybe rather than a check-list item - and its horrible to get on a train at a terminus and find its still full of trash from the last trip.

Like I’ve said several times, EMR seems to be all about show and less about substance. The marketing team who seem to be living in Miles’ cloud cuckoo land might well consider this saying: you can’t put lipstick on a pig.