e-ticket printing size

[181]

On the now-closed e-ticket thread, in response to this:

If you print them, you end up with a massive piece of paper which doesn't fit in your wallet. Worse, a split ticket or a return will have multiple pieces of paper instead of an option to have them all next to each other on one sheet

@yorkie said:

The PDF software I use will print multiple pages per sheet.

Do people know how small you can print an e-ticket before it gets too small to scan properly? From Yorkie's comment I presume that two pages per A4 sheet is OK, but what about 4 (or even more?).

 

[Haywain]

On the now-closed e-ticket thread, in response to this:


@yorkie said:

The PDF software I use will print multiple pages per sheet.

Do people know how small you can print an e-ticket before it gets too small to scan properly? From Yorkie's comment I presume that two pages per A4 sheet is OK, but what about 4 (or even more?).

Given that you can have multiple copies of an eTicket there is nothing to stop you experimenting with this, if you so wish.

 

[mmh]

Given that you can have multiple copies of an eTicket there is nothing to stop you experimenting with this, if you so wish.

Well, there is. The guard scanning your bits of paper, or the passengers behind you at a ticket barrier.

Good luck with this experiment!

 

[JonathanH]

Well, there is. The guard scanning your bits of paper, or the passengers behind you at a ticket barrier.

Good luck with this experiment!

I dont think it is being suggested that the same ticket is presented a number of times - it can just be printed one stage smaller each time one is used (with a backup held if it doesn't scan).

 

[Haywain]

I dont think it is being suggested that the same ticket is presented a number of times - it can just be printed one stage smaller each time one is used (with a backup held if it doesn't scan).

Quite. Although I suppose you’d start small and work up to find the smallest that seems to be accepted. I can’t imagine that 4 eTickets on a sheet of A4 in Landscape mode would cause any problem in terms of size.

 

[ashkeba]

Quite. Although I suppose you’d start small and work up to find the smallest that seems to be accepted. I can’t imagine that 4 eTickets on a sheet of A4 in Landscape mode would cause any problem in terms of size.

My phone fits on A4 six times and an e-ticket barcode only uses a third of the screen, so I guess 18 per page would be fine.

 

[Watershed]

On the now-closed e-ticket thread, in response to this:


@yorkie said:

The PDF software I use will print multiple pages per sheet.

Do people know how small you can print an e-ticket before it gets too small to scan properly? From Yorkie's comment I presume that two pages per A4 sheet is OK, but what about 4 (or even more?).

As long as the Aztec code is no smaller than it is on a smartphone, I don't foresee a problem.

Most e-ticket PDFs unfortunately split out as a ludicrously tall 'receipt style' document, which is very difficult to print out smaller.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As long as the Aztec code is no smaller than it is on a smartphone, I don't foresee a problem.

Most e-ticket PDFs unfortunately split out as a ludicrously tall 'receipt style' document, which is very difficult to print out smaller.

I suspect the limiting factor would not be how small it went (within reason), but rather having multiple barcodes too close together so the scanner might pick up the wrong one or fail to differentiate entirely.

 

[Mikw]

I guess the simple answer is to print it out to exactly the same size as your phone screen.

 

[JonathanH]

Most e-ticket PDFs unfortunately split out as a ludicrously tall 'receipt style' document, which is very difficult to print out smaller.

I noticed someone travelling with a printed e-ticket yesterday which they had cut out to effectively resemble a till receipt.

The answer to the OP's problem is really to crop the pdf to only show the relevant information, and then print the resulting document on a smaller piece of paper.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I noticed someone travelling with a printed e-ticket yesterday which they had cut out to effectively resemble a till receipt.

If you do that they nicely fold in half and fit in the notes slot of a wallet. The format really is very well thought out.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Depends on the quality of your printer/paper.

As a rule of thumb in general industry to ensure readability, each module (the individual dots of a code), should be a minimum of about 0 25 to 0.3 mm square. Multiply how many modules a given code has to give you the minimum size of a complete code.

 

[Haywain]

My phone fits on A4 six times and an e-ticket barcode only uses a third of the screen, so I guess 18 per page would be fine.

I was meaning to print the whole pdf, not just the barcode. Otherwise how will you show the ticket details, or view your reservations, if you need them? If you say "on a smartphone", then why print the thing out?

 

[ashkeba]

I was meaning to print the whole pdf, not just the barcode. Otherwise how will you show the ticket details, or view your reservations, if you need them? If you say "on a smartphone", then why print the thing out?

Backup. I think you could fit some details and still fit lots on each page. I do not understand why the supplied PDF is so big. Does the railway hate trees? The trees used for paper are probably not the ones putting leaves on lines!

 

[JonathanH]

Otherwise how will you show the ticket details, or view your reservations, if you need them?

Is there any obligation to show anything other than the code?

I do not understand why the supplied PDF is so big.

It isn't. The thing that makes it big is printing one ticket on an A4 piece of paper.

 

[Haywain]

Does the railway hate trees?

No, that's why we're trying to encourage paperless ticketing and remove non-recyclable mag stripe tickets.

Is there any obligation to show anything other than the code?

I don't think you can assume that displaying a barcode alone is all you'll ever need to do. It's fine when scanners are in use, but what about a visual ticket check?

 

[plugwash]

Most e-ticket PDFs unfortunately split out as a ludicrously tall 'receipt style' document, which is very difficult to print out smaller.

IIRC adobe reader has a "custom" option under the multiple pages per sheet option which can be used to deal with awkward shaped pages.

 

[Deerfold]

I guess the simple answer is to print it out to exactly the same size as your phone screen.

Which is fine if you print to the same resolution.

 

[plugwash]

fortunately printers tend to have a high resolution for images that are literally black and white.

Resolution on printers works somewhat differently to displays, on displays each sub-pixel has a wide choice of levels, on printers there is far less choice, on lasers it's a simple on/off, some inkjets can vary droplet size but there is still less precision than on displays. So halftoning patterns are used to generate different shades.

The result of this is that the effective resolution of printers for things that are simply black and white is much higher than their effective resolution for shaded images. 1200 DPI is pretty standard on laser printers.

 

[L401CJF]

I had a family on my train this week who had clearly printed all 6 or so on 1 sheet and cut them down into little strips about 2inches wide. The code was tiny but all text was legible and the codes scanned with no issue. They were similar sized to the average bus ticket.

 

[Ken H]

You can get apps for phones that read barcodes and QR codes. So print one and test with your phone. You can actually see what is on the QR code.

 

[akm]

Most e-ticket PDFs unfortunately split out as a ludicrously tall 'receipt style' document, which is very difficult to print out smaller.

The PDF document I get from trainsplit (I don't know if other retailers would be different, but I don't see why) has its document size (in the PDF properties) as 2.38 inches wide by 8.03 inches tall - very tall and thin. A4 paper is 8.3 inches by 11.7 inches, so four etickets in this format will print full size side-by-side if rotated, and five would fit with only the tiniest bit of scaling down.

I don't think you can assume that displaying a barcode alone is all you'll ever need to do. It's fine when scanners are in use, but what about a visual ticket check?

There are places that people would trust what a printed eticket says on it, without scanning the barcode?

 

[plugwash]

Not every member of rail staff who might need to check a ticket has a device with the scanning app.

A criminal can make a fake e-ticket of course, but that raises their crime from mere faredodging to outright fraud.

I do pity the rail staff checking tickets though, some of them must have to deal with an almost ludicrous range of ticket formats. You have the normal rail ticket formats (CCST, PRT, E-ticket, M-Ticket, print at home ticket) but here in GM you also have things like system one tickets issued by bus ticket machines, or wayfarers issued by paypoint machines. I don't know if things are similar in other conurbations but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[gingerheid]

The PDF document I get from trainsplit (I don't know if other retailers would be different, but I don't see why) has its document size (in the PDF properties) as 2.38 inches wide by 8.03 inches tall - very tall and thin. A4 paper is 8.3 inches by 11.7 inches, so four etickets in this format will print full size side-by-side if rotated, and five would fit with only the tiniest bit of scaling down.



There are places that people would trust what a printed eticket says on it, without scanning the barcode?

There seem to be people without the ability to scan the barcode!

 

[Haywain]

There are places that people would trust what a printed eticket says on it, without scanning the barcode?

In spite of how we encourage gate line staff to scan tickets some still merrily open barriers without confirming the barcode is valid.

 

[Starmill]

There are places that people would trust what a printed eticket says on it, without scanning the barcode?

Yes, all over the place. Loads of staff either don't or can't scan them.

 

[yorkie]

In spite of how we encourage gate line staff to scan tickets some still merrily open barriers without confirming the barcode is valid.

Newcastle station staff have to do that with Northern F&F tickets, as I found out yesterday

But yes if they can scan them they should be doing so.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Newcastle station staff have to do that with Northern F&F tickets, as I found out yesterday

But yes if they can scan them they should be doing so.

Yes, I’ve supplied them with a cut down version of our onboard TIS, DORIS specifically designed just to scan and not to issue tickets. It’s been quite illuminating seeing peoples faces when we tell them that they’ve asked for a refund and that’s why their ticket is t opening the gates

 

[mmh]

You can get apps for phones that read barcodes and QR codes. So print one and test with your phone. You can actually see what is on the QR code.

Pretty much every recent phone can read QR codes natively. Railway tickets are Aztec codes.

In spite of how we encourage gate line staff to scan tickets some still merrily open barriers without confirming the barcode is valid.

And long may that continue. Their eyes are more than sufficient.

 

[A Challenge]

And long may that continue. Their eyes are more than sufficient.

The problem is that you do not need to destroy all possible copies of an e ticket to get it refunded, whereas if I am travelling with a refunded CCST ticket it would be in two pieces and obviously not valid, which is the whole point of confirming the barcode is valid.