E-Tickets being inaccessible/difficult to use for the elderly.

[plugwash]

For comparison, at work our contract is for 2.36p for colour and 0.27p for mono. Admittedly that is a heavy duty printer but I am surprised yours is ten times the cost!

I had a play around with the different options on "printerland" (a seller of printers who quote "running costs"* for all the printers they sell) and I think your work got a very good deal, but there also seems to be a big running cost difference between big office multi-function devices and more affordable desktop printers and there also seems to be big variation between printers in the same price range. 4p per page seems absoloutely plausible for a cheap printer from a manufactuer known for high running costs.

* Based on the prices of toner cartridges, does not include the cost of other longer-life consumables.

 

[BenS123]

I must admit I previously was a fan of paper tickets and would always choose a paper ticket over an e-ticket, however since a extremely stressful experience of losing my ticket I've moved to e-tickets (luckily I knew the staff at Bournemouth gateline!)
Since then, I have used e-tickets as they are a lot harder to lose (a phone is pretty difficult to lose these days as life seems impossible without them) and far easier to claim delay repay on as I don't need to explain my situation to the gateline staff, and I find they work quicker at gatelines as well once you've mastered them.

 

[Skymonster]

I had a play around with the different options on "printerland" (a seller of printers who quote "running costs"* for all the printers they sell) and I think your work got a very good deal, but there also seems to be a big running cost difference between big office multi-function devices and more affordable desktop printers and there also seems to be big variation between printers in the same price range. 4p per page seems absoloutely plausible for a cheap printer from a manufactuer known for high running costs.

* Based on the prices of toner cartridges, does not include the cost of other longer-life consumables.

It’s how the makers of printers with low retail prices make a profit - sell the printer at or below cost in the knowledge that most customers will buy he same brand of [overpriced] consumables. More robust office / business printers are a bit different as they are likely to be used much more and, if not leased, have a much higher purchase price.

 

[philthetube]

I don't use a smartphone app to buy tickets. I don't use a printer. No-one needs these things to travel by train and most e-ticket users don't either.

But you have to have one of the above, unless I am missing something?

No. You can buy a ticket online without having a smartphone app, and show the ticket on a smartphone without printing it out.

This thread started on the premise that you could not travel without a smartphone or printer, and lack of access to purchase physical tickets, to do as suggested above, you must posses a printer or smartphone.

 

[Haywain]

This thread started on the premise that you could not travel without a smartphone or printer, and lack of access to purchase physical tickets, to do as suggested above, you must posses a printer or smartphone.

No. Many people travel using eTickets without owning either. Having access to a printer isn't the same as possessing one.

 

[TUC]

It's similar to the banks isn't it - shut all your local branches, making all face to face contact with customers impossible, forcing people to do all their banking online, then say "almost all our customers prefer to bank online". Well of course, they do if you've closed down all their other options! I can see the rail industry going the same way.

But why would I want to have the inconvenience of travelling into town to buy a ticket (if I want to buy an Advance or earlier than on the day for other reasons), stand in a queue, find out whether the staff member is helpful or unhelpful in identifying the best value ticket and journey time options and keep other people waiting whilst all that happens when I can do all that at home within a few minutes?

 

[Bletchleyite]

But why would I want to have the inconvenience of travelling into town to buy a ticket (if I want to buy an Advance or earlier than on the day for other reasons), stand in a queue, find out whether the staff member is helpful or unhelpful in identifying the best value ticket and journey time options and keep other people waiting whilst all that happens when I can do all that at home within a few minutes?

The impression I have is that there are quite a few retired people who, being a bit bored, actually enjoy the act of going into town and completing administrative tasks in person.

For the rest of us, as the advert goes, there's Masterc...er...online banking, e-tickets etc, which save us wasting our time doing those things so we can do things we want to do instead.

But surely there are other options if people are bored and want to go and do stuff in person, such as voluntary work?

 

[yorkie]

This thread started on the premise that you could not travel without a smartphone or printer, and lack of access to purchase physical tickets, to do as suggested above, you must posses a printer or smartphone.

Yes you are quite right, it was. I debunked that premise within 5 minutes of the thread being posted.

I've regularly spoken out against m-tickets (which are tied to smartphones) and I've been speaking out against the now defunct Print @ Home ticket format (which did require printing and also a form of ID) since at least 2012.

I also believe such formats have harmed the reputation of e-tickets, as people erroneously think that similar restrictions apply to them.

 

[RPI]

I've only just found this and only skim read, but in my experience lots of elderly people do have e tickets on their smart phones along with their senior railcards, there are a few that print the PDF put onto a sheet of A4 but there are definitely a significant number that do successfully use E Tickets.

 

[Skymonster]

I guess if the government gets its way and more and more ticket offices are closed, those who choose to buy at a station but find the TVM broken will end up buying on board more frequently.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

But why would I want to have the inconvenience of travelling into town to buy a ticket (if I want to buy an Advance or earlier than on the day for other reasons), stand in a queue, find out whether the staff member is helpful or unhelpful in identifying the best value ticket and journey time options and keep other people waiting whilst all that happens when I can do all that at home within a few minutes?

It really is no hassle for most people to visit their local station. For me, if it's a working day I'll be passing through there anyway, if it's my day off, I can enjoy a pleasant chat with the person serving me, wander onto the platform to see what units are operating, perhaps have a pint in the pub on platform 1 (this is Sheffield I'm referring to btw). If you see buying a rail ticket as a pleasure trather than an inconvenience it really does change your perspective.

Yes, some people like buying e-tickets on their phone but does the convenience outweigh the disadvantages?

 

[PeterC]

I've only just found this and only skim read, but in my experience lots of elderly people do have e tickets on their smart phones along with their senior railcards, there are a few that print the PDF put onto a sheet of A4 but there are definitely a significant number that do successfully use E Tickets.

If I have time I will print out an eticket as backup but am more likely to show it on my phone on my very occasional non Oyster journeys.

I suspect that the right to board a train without a ticket if there is no physical means of purchase at the station will be gone before the end of the decade.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It really is no hassle for most people to visit their local station. For me, if it's a working day I'll be passing through there anyway, if it's my day off, I can enjoy a pleasant chat with the person serving me, wander onto the platform to see what units are operating, perhaps have a pint in the pub on platform 1 (this is Sheffield I'm referring to btw). If you see buying a rail ticket as a pleasure trather than an inconvenience it really does change your perspective.

If you enjoy going to the station, yes. Most people consider it an inconvenient waste of their time to go to the station other than when they are travelling, because it's time they could be spending doing something else.

A visit to a railway station being enjoyable in itself is a railway enthusiast thing. The railway is not run for the benefit of enthusiasts.

Yes, some people like buying e-tickets on their phone but does the convenience outweigh the disadvantages?

For the vast majority of the population now, yes, it does.

 

[jon81uk]

Yes. My mother who is in her late 70s has had regular access to the internet using her own computer since 2002 (blimey, 21 years now!!), but she has never trusted to buy anything or enter her card details over the internet. On the rare occasion she's wanted something from Amazon or wherever, she's asked me to buy it for her and sent me a cheque through the post!

At least she is highly unlikely to fall victim to a scam, I suppose.

Possibly more likely to fall victim a scam if you aren't aware of what "normal" looks like though. Granted its likely your mother would just say "no" to some things, but often people get caught out when trying to do something they haven't done before, whereas those who use it regularly will know what to look for.

 

[fandroid]

In my experience with airline boarding passes, you can set the quality to draft and to black ink only and they still work the scanners perfectly well. That's with an inkjet printer, where, if you avoid the manufacturers blisteringly expensive prices, the cost is really quite minimal.

I just Googled, and it appears the approximate cost of printing a page on a monochrome laser printer is £0.007. Yes, seven tenths of a penny.

This is the biggest non-issue I've seen in the whole world of non-issues. You have a printer, print out your e-tickets. There's just not a problem here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In my experience with airline boarding passes, you can set the quality to draft and to black ink only and they still work the scanners perfectly well. That's with an inkjet printer, where, if you avoid the manufacturers blisteringly expensive prices, the cost is really quite minimal.

Even if you buy HP's official ink (the most expensive type) and use quality, heavyweight paper the cost of printing an e-ticket is tiny compared with the cost of purchasing it. It is genuinely on the level where you should consider the shoe leather walking to the station in comparison. If you drive to the station, the petrol will certainly cost you more.

Sure, if it's a walk-up it can sometimes be fractionally quicker to grab from a non planner TVM than a planner phone app, which is the case when I tend to use paper tickets (though not always), but if it's being bought in advance an e-ticket is definitely easier.

 

[fandroid]

For the record, I'm 75 and extremely happy with etickets. I find the Forum's ticket sales setup to be user friendly and very easy to use with etickets. It does take a bit of learning to appreciate the usefulness of things like Google wallet, but having all the journey info there in one place is far better than fiddling with paper tickets that I forget the whereabouts of in which of ten pockets in three layers of clothing. If the Aztec code tickets in the wallet mysteriously disappear (it's not happened yet), then the Forum ticket site has always sent a backup email anyway, where the tickets can be retrieved, together with even more detail of itinerary and restrictions.

The number one concern is always the old old one of phone battery life!

 

[sheff1]

I'm less sold on Northern seemingly taking this policy for all Advances, but to be honest Northern's Advances aren't a great idea anyway.

Northern Advances are a great idea. Can save a decent anount on the walk up fare when I am flying back to a different airport to the one I went out from - just book for the first train I can make once I have got through security.

Premsumably being a holder of Senior Railcard for many years means I am "elderly" in the eyes of youngsters

 

[chris_in_salop]

I'm 45, not elderly, and always get a paper ticket. I have no intention of changing what I have always done simply for the convenience of the railway.

 

[DaveB10780]

I'm 45, not elderly, and always get a paper ticket. I have no intention of changing what I have always done simply for the convenience of the railway.

You may actually find that the vast majority of people love the fact that you do not have to manage bits of paper and they would say "thanks railway for modernising the tickets". Win-win all round.

 

[jon81uk]

I'm 45, not elderly, and always get a paper ticket. I have no intention of changing what I have always done simply for the convenience of the railway.

I'm 41, not elderly and always get an e-ticket. I have no intention of changing back to the old methods simply for those who don't want to use newer technology.

and that is the great thing, e-tickets exisit for those of us who want a quicker easier solution instead of queing up at a ticket machine. But its also great that ticket machines are still available for everyone that wants to use them too.

 

[JBuchananGB]

My wife and I successfully completed our outing yesterday with our EIGHT hardcopy e-tickets. Southport gateline could not cope with them, had to show them at the manual gate. Successfully scanned on 3 out of 4 trains. Not asked for Senior Railcards (plastic ones of course) on the one train where they were applicable. Return journey delayed by 23 minutes. Not going to claim the 96p each Delay Repay! By the way, I have a subscription for inkjet printer ink at £4.50 per 100 pages, and 500 sheets of paper recently cost about £6.

 

[pitdiver]

I live near the "Robin Hood" line none of the nearest stations
has a ticket office My nearest station that has a T/O is Mansfield which i have to use. I have a PTAC so I cant use any online ticket portals until TfL get round to issuing us with codes for the RDG sytem.

 

[sor]

I'm 41, not elderly and always get an e-ticket. I have no intention of changing back to the old methods simply for those who don't want to use newer technology.

and that is the great thing, e-tickets exisit for those of us who want a quicker easier solution instead of queing up at a ticket machine. But its also great that ticket machines are still available for everyone that wants to use them too.

I'm in my 30s, same. I do however print my e-tickets because I'm aware of the rather punitive and "guilty before proven innocent" style of the railway and I'm not going to risk it. I did hate how the 26-30 railcard was "digital" only though (and I did have issues with the app when an RPI wanted to see it, sods law). I think if this is the way the industry is going, laws need to be relaxed to account for technical failures like this.

My personal preference is smartcard ticketing as it pushes all of the responsibility back to the railway, it's their card, their machines.

 

[TUC]

It really is no hassle for most people to visit their local station. For me, if it's a working day I'll be passing through there anyway, if it's my day off, I can enjoy a pleasant chat with the person serving me, wander onto the platform to see what units are operating, perhaps have a pint in the pub on platform 1 (this is Sheffield I'm referring to btw). If you see buying a rail ticket as a pleasure trather than an inconvenience it really does change your perspective.

Yes, some people like buying e-tickets on their phone but does the convenience outweigh the disadvantages?

With respect, that does sound like the perspective of a rail enthusiast rather than that of most people, who regard buying a rail ticket as just something to get done as quickly as possible amidst a hundred other jobs.

 

[jayah]

If you enjoy going to the station, yes. Most people consider it an inconvenient waste of their time to go to the station other than when they are travelling, because it's time they could be spending doing something else.

A visit to a railway station being enjoyable in itself is a railway enthusiast thing. The railway is not run for the benefit of enthusiasts.



For the vast majority of the population now, yes, it does.

It does, although the disadvantages remain considerable.

The vast majority of scanning issues are caused by screen brightness. Open up a QR code an an airline app. Look what happens to the screen brightness. Rail apps don't do that. The biggest constraint with mobile phones is battery. They have thousands of lines of code designed to save battery life by turning down the brightness, a whole theme on adaptive brightness and another on power saving settings.

Why has this app logged me out? It was literally working 10 minutes ago and now I am standing in front of the ticket gates and it isn't. You need a phone signal to log back in, and a busy city railway station or a very quiet rural one can be the worst places for that.

Railcard? Ah that is on *another* app. For some reason I need some download code to get it there. Thank goodness they don't do that for each ticket.

If you are suggesting I download *another* app to store the QR codes, then something is wrong.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It does, although the disadvantages remain considerable.

The vast majority of scanning issues are caused by screen brightness. Open up a QR code an an airline app. Look what happens to the screen brightness. Rail apps don't do that. The biggest constraint with mobile phones is battery. They have thousands of lines of code designed to save battery life by turning down the brightness, a whole theme on adaptive brightness and another on power saving settings.

Why has this app logged me out? It was literally working 10 minutes ago and now I am standing in front of the ticket gates and it isn't. You need a phone signal to log back in, and a busy city railway station or a very quiet rural one can be the worst places for that.

Railcard? Ah that is on *another* app. For some reason I need some download code to get it there. Thank goodness they don't do that for each ticket.

If you are suggesting I download *another* app to store the QR codes, then something is wrong.

I would genuinely recommend you try an iPhone. The whole thing is just so much more coherent. And yes, when you select a pass, it automatically knocks the brightness up, and back down when you go out of it.

Google have been very much second place in the race for a decent built in wallet app. PKPASS is a simple ZIP file (hence PK = PKZip) with XML and images in it, they could easily have supported it as third party apps did.

I would agree the Railcard thing is cack handed, and until they allow me to add it to Apple Wallet as a PKPASS I won't be having an electronic one and will stick to plastic.

 

[TUC]

And the RNIB provide a service testing websites for their functionality for those groups.

As a test, I tried using Northern's website with Voiceover turned on yesterday. When it came to the Departure Station box, I typed in Halifax correctly, but it would not accept my entry. The reason was that it wanted me to then select 'Halifax (HFX)' from the drop down list below. If you cannot see it would not be apparent that the drop down list was there and indeed, even if you did spot it, the need to find and select it is a needless additional hurdle for a visually impaired person in using the site when a station name has been entered correctly.

 

[miklcct]

I would say that one of the cases when using an e-ticket is inconvenient is that when I'm travelling with my bike where I put my device on the phone stand for navigation, compared to using an Oyster card.

However this is definitely a niche use case and it won't be cost effective to keep traditional tickets just because of this.

I would genuinely recommend you try an iPhone. The whole thing is just so much more coherent. And yes, when you select a pass, it automatically knocks the brightness up, and back down when you go out of it.

Google have been very much second place in the race for a decent built in wallet app. PKPASS is a simple ZIP file (hence PK = PKZip) with XML and images in it, they could easily have supported it as third party apps did.

I would agree the Railcard thing is cack handed, and until they allow me to add it to Apple Wallet as a PKPASS I won't be having an electronic one and will stick to plastic.

iPhone is not a good value of money considering that, by installing the appropriate combination of apps, other phone models can do more at a cheaper price.

There are literally hundreds of apps on the Google Play store to handle pkpass files.

 

[jnjkerbin]

Whenever I've used e-tickets (which isn't often since I live in the land of Southeastern), I've always saved them to my Google Wallet. I've always found it very convenient, particularly how it automatically brightens the screen when displaying the ticket. Is there any significant advantage to using a different wallet app?