Ear-shattering noise at STP platforms

[STPBTN]

I wanted to post here to find out if anyone else feels strongly about the high levels of noise that the trains make at the southern end of the Thameslink platforms at St Pancras. Every time a northbound 319 comes out of the tunnel, the screeching sound it makes actually hurts my ears. On quite a few mornings, I've seen some passengers hold their hands over their ears.

I have no engineering background so I don't know what causes the sound or whether there is any way to rectify the situation. I gather it's made worse by the fact that the station is underground so the sound echoes off the walls. What entity would be the right one to approach for this? OSHA? Network Rail?

 

[EM2]

It has been checked by the relevant authorities and has been found to be within safe levels for short lengths of time. It is recommended that staff who are required to work in the area for an extended period should wear ear defenders.

 

[ainsworth74]

I have no engineering background so I don't know what causes the sound or whether there is any way to rectify the situation. I gather it's made worse by the fact that the station is underground so the sound echoes off the walls. What entity would be the right one to approach for this? OSHA? Network Rail?

I would suggest that OSHA are unlikely to be interested in an issue on the UK railway network...

I know what you mean but it seems no louder to me than say a Class 91 (electric train used on Virgin East Coast) passing you as it pulls out of a station. I would suggest the first port of call would be Network Rail if you wish to raise a complaint.

 

[Bigfoot]

I would definitely contact the OSHA. Most definitely the correct course of action. :grin:

However there is an EU OSHA. Which works in partnership with HSE.

 

[westcoaster]

It's all been tested and is fine, there were microphones placed along the platform recording for about a week.

 

[STPBTN]

I would definitely contact the OSHA. Most definitely the correct course of action. :grin:

However there is an EU OSHA. Which works in partnership with HSE.

Oh dear - having worked with the public sector in the US before made me think of the wrong health and safety authority!

The Network Rail path sounds like the best one if I find the time to send them a message. HSE might be more relevant if I were an employee, though from EM2's comments, it sounds like a workplace risk assessment of this already exists!

It's all been tested and is fine, there were microphones placed along the platform recording for about a week.

I wonder whether they tested the full length of the platform. I'm seldom the first to complain but it's very rare for me to experience sounds which actually hurt my ears!

 

[edwin_m]

I wonder if it is audible in the posh hotel that must be just about above it? I thought this section was specially laid in resilient fixings to reduce rail noise.

 

[bb21]

I would suggest that OSHA are unlikely to be interested in an issue on the UK railway network...

I know what you mean but it seems no louder to me than say a Class 91 (electric train used on Virgin East Coast) passing you as it pulls out of a station. I would suggest the first port of call would be Network Rail if you wish to raise a complaint.

I think it's more the pitch of the noise that makes it less bearable for some people.

I can sympathise with the OP, as the problem is particularly acute on a 319 in the summer, with another passing by at the same time.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Any links to a youtube vid from the St Pan TL platform (or any other location) with the noise being referred to?

 

[hassaanhc]

Any links to a youtube vid from the St Pan TL platform (or any other location) with the noise being referred to?

Sharp bend at the southern end leads to loud screeching. I last passed through a week ago, while on board a 319, and it was unbearable, louder than I remember it being previously. I find all types of stock there are just as bad as each other for it.

 

[AM9]

Sharp bend at the southern end leads to loud screeching. I last passed through a week ago, while on board a 319, and it was unbearable, louder than I remember it being previously. I find all types of stock there are just as bad as each other for it.

The 700s are supposed to have shorter wheelbase bogies so maybe the flange squeal will be less than the 319s and Electrostars on the same radius bends.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

What is a safe level of noise and an acceptable level of noise are, obviously, two different things. There is the Noise at Work regulations but I think these relate (mainly) to steady-state noise over a long period (e.g. 8 hours continuous) rather than transient noise. It is unlikely that any passenger is going to spend 6-8 hours standing at STP.

It would be interesting to find out what the Leq level is; perhaps one day if I ever get the time, I'll try a FOI request.

All very well putting microphones along the platform but how were the tests done and what methods were used for measurement. Were sound level meters set to say, A-weighting used for example?

I sympathise with the OP because many people are hyper-sensitive to sound, and in particular, certain types/pitches of sound.

 

[londonmidland]

Any links to a youtube vid from the St Pan TL platform (or any other location) with the noise being referred to?

Here's my video I filmed a few years ago at St Pancras; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CqQK9nTFGI

 

[Emyr]

Be grateful those trains have bogeys...

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Be grateful those trains have bogeys...

Personally, if I saw any evidence of even one bogey on a train, I would change seat or even coach and be very careful where I sat.

 

[Emyr]

I've never seem a Pacer without bogeys!

 

[mr_moo]

You could submit an FOI request to NR to get the results of noise monitoring and also ask what traffic it was recorded on?

As a track engineer, it sounds like the lubricator has failed or run-out of grease and has not been noticed so a simple request to NR to get the lubricators checked in the area is probably the best way to start.

 

[Crossover]

Any links to a youtube vid from the St Pan TL platform (or any other location) with the noise being referred to?

Here is one starmill took when we were in London last year - video was mainly of the 387's but it demonstrates the problem rather well too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZlLNdf5bXU

I've never seem a Pacer without bogeys!

You mean you've never seen a Pacer with bogeys? - they just have axles (imagine them going through St Pancras LL!)

 

[Zoidberg]

...


You mean you've never seen a Pacer with bogeys? - they just have axles (imagine them going through St Pancras LL!)

I think he meant what he put. However, bogies are a different matter.

 

[kevconnor]

You mean you've never seen a Pacer with bogeys? - they just have axles (imagine them going through St Pancras LL!)

I think that would breach several tenets of the Geneva Convention.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

You could submit an FOI request to NR to get the results of noise monitoring and also ask what traffic it was recorded on?

As a track engineer, it sounds like the lubricator has failed or run-out of grease and has not been noticed so a simple request to NR to get the lubricators checked in the area is probably the best way to start.

That's if NR give it to me...could give it a go I suppose as a simple layman.

Of course, being underground, the noise level would undergo several additional reinforcing (and fewer cancellation) effects due to reverberation.

Anyway, digressing slightly but who remembers the squealing of EPB wheels around Borough Market Junction? Would have been interesting to see what the peak dB was for these old workhorses had measurement ever been thought of back then.

 

[LowLevel]

One of the worst track noises I've ever heard was 4 wheeled aggregates wagons on the goods line behind Leicester carriage sidings - absolutely appalling.

 

[Rapidash]

Always fun when a Pacer comes screeching into Exeter Central, especially when its kick out time at the college. Teenagers have such....sensitive hearing, even with headphones in.

 

[Class 170101]

Teenagers have such....sensitive hearing, even with headphones in.

They can hear higher pitched sounds than older people why do you think the mosquito was invented with such a high pitched noise?

 

[Rapidash]

They can hear higher pitched sounds than older people why do you think the mosquito was invented with such a high pitched noise?

Oh I'm well acquainted with those bloomin' things, I managed to retain my ability to hear 'em until I was 22 or so.