Early travel during disruption

[6Gman]

Some friends had advance tickets this afternoon 1649 Crewe - Chester and 1724 Chester - Bangor.

In view of WCML disruption I was concerned that the 1649 would be late (or even caped) and suggested going for the 1623 {In the event the 1649 was fine}

My question is:

If we had got to the station and found the 1649 was running 35 late (or caped) could they have used the 1623 to retain their Chester connection, or would they have been required to use the late-running 1649 and then c.1824 from Chester?

 

[Crossover]

Strictly speaking probably not allowed but I've been in a similar situation before and had a word with the guard (XC on a TPE only Advance, too!)

 

[Paul Kelly]

My opinion is that it is allowed, providing you know that the booked train is delayed and providing you still comply with any TOC restrictions on the ticket.

 

[yorkie]

Some friends had advance tickets this afternoon 1649 Crewe - Chester and 1724 Chester - Bangor.

I'm confused. The only Advance fares for this flow are routed Virgin Trains Only according to BRfares.com so I am unsure how you managed to get these for a combination of Virgin Trains & ATW.

If we had got to the station and found the 1649 was running 35 late (or caped) could they have used the 1623 to retain their Chester connection, or would they have been required to use the late-running 1649 and then c.1824 from Chester?

If running late, seek staff advice and discretion is likely to be shown to take an earlier train (if there is one by the appropriate operator), and less likely if there is an operator who wouldn't normally accept the ticket, but it's still possible.

If it's cancelled, your rights do increase though the operator restriction still applies.

 

[greatkingrat]

It seems that although the route says "VIRGIN TRNS ONLY", the detailed restriction says VWC and connections.

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=CRE&dest=BNG&rte=474&tkt=VDS

 

[Bletchleyite]

If we had got to the station and found the 1649 was running 35 late (or caped) could they have used the 1623 to retain their Chester connection, or would they have been required to use the late-running 1649 and then c.1824 from Chester?

It's certainly usual at Euston that if a given train is cancelled passengers with Advance tickets are suggested to use the ones either side of it.

Neil

 

[455driver]

My opinion is that it is allowed, providing you know that the booked train is delayed and providing you still comply with any TOC restrictions on the ticket.

So that would be a no then!
Can you point me to where it says you can catch an earlier train if you want?
As Yorkie has stated ask the staff and they will probably sort it out using their discretion.

 

[tractakid]

I have previously, using a bargain bucket Advance ticket, been allowed to travel from a different station, with a different company, at a different time, via a different route, and been allowed to use a service that is pick-up only at my destination. Ticket was endorsed, and confirmed on twitter.

Don't ask and you don't get. Who knows what you might be allowed to do?

I'm glad I was allowed to do this as the train I was booked on missed the last connecting train home.

 

[TheEdge]

My opinion is that it is allowed, providing you know that the booked train is delayed and providing you still comply with any TOC restrictions on the ticket.

As 455Driver has said that is meaningless.

If the TOC has introduced Customer Service Level 2 (CSL2) then ticket restrictions, including advances, are lifted. If that has not happened then regardless of your individual trains lateness and opinions your advance remains restricted.

The only ways round it would be to either get the ticket endorsed by a ticket office or customer service to allow early travel or ask the guard on the train you intend to travel on before boarding.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Can you point me to where it says you can catch an earlier train if you want?

Not explicitly! But National Rail Enquiries Advance ticket terms and conditions says

• You must be at the departure station shown on your ticket in good time to catch the train. If you miss the first train on which you are booked for any reason, a new ticket must be purchased.
• If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey.

I don't think "the next available train" necessarily has to mean a later train. If it is already obvious that that the train the passenger was booked on is delayed, and that if they wait for it they will arrive late at their destination, it should be permissable to take the next available train (provided any TOC restriction on the ticket is complied with), even if that is timed to depart before before the (delayed) booked train.

The greyer area is whether turning up at the destination station in good time constitutes having begun travelling or not. If Crewe was an intermediate station on the journey rather than the departure station, it would be more clear-cut.

 

[455driver]

Not explicitly! But National Rail Enquiries Advance ticket terms and conditions says

I don't think "the next available train" necessarily has to mean a later train. If it is already obvious that that the train the passenger was booked on is delayed, and that if they wait for it they will arrive late at their destination, it should be permissable to take the next available train (provided any TOC restriction on the ticket is complied with), even if that is timed to depart before before the (delayed) booked train.

The greyer area is whether turning up at the destination station in good time constitutes having begun travelling or not. If Crewe was an intermediate station on the journey rather than the departure station, it would be more clear-cut.

It says "if you miss the first train", if the train is running late then you havent missed it have you!

 

[Deerfold]

It says "if you miss the first train", if the train is running late then you havent missed it have you!

No, so they won't have to buy a new ticket (I think you've read the wrong line).