Easing of Covid rules in England, including removal of "plan B" measures

[LAX54]

No more day 2 Covid tests when you come back to the UK (BBC News 1230)

Covid travel tests axed in England and Scotland for fully vaccinated

From 11 February, arrivals in England and Scotland will no longer have to take a test within 48 hours.

www.bbc.co.uk

People arriving in England from abroad will no longer have to take Covid tests if they have been fully vaccinated, the Prime Minister has confirmed.
Boris Johnson said the further relaxation of the travel rules was designed to show that the country was open to travellers and business.
He did not confirm when the rules would go but the Transport Secretary is set to make a statement later on Monday.
Vaccinated travellers currently need to do a test within two days of arriving.

 

[davetheguard]

TfL tried to get a mandate through the Byelaws last Summer but failed. There will therefore be no mandate this time as the Government are hardly going to cave in after previously denying them.

TfL will stil be asking people to wear masks but everyone is free to ignore them. There is nothing BTP can do (not that BTP would do anything right now, of course!)

I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere in one of the numerous Covid threads, but a quick question if I may:

Am I right in thinking that national conditions of carriage (rather than TfL's) apply to London Overground & TfL Rail services? Obviously I'm asking because of the mask requirement thing.

 

[MikeWM]

There are various rumours that the vaccination requirements for NHS staff may be 'delayed'.

Given the alternative would appear to be the truly absurd situation now seen in many US states - where they fired the unvaccinated medical staff, and as a result are now so short-staffed that they're asking vaccinated staff with *symptomatic* breakthrough Covid infections to work with patients (!!!) - one has to hope so.

An example here:

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation...vid-to-return-even-if-they-may-be-infectious/

Hospitals are increasingly asking staff who have the coronavirus to work while potentially infectious, underscoring how the hyper-transmissible omicron variant has sidelined employees, overwhelmed resources and upended nearly two years of strict protocols. Though vaccine requirements are common at hospitals, many health care workers are coming down with the virus, exacerbating staffing issues.

 

[yorkie]

I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere in one of the numerous Covid threads, but a quick question if I may:

Am I right in thinking that national conditions of carriage (rather than TfL's) apply to London Overground & TfL Rail services? Obviously I'm asking because of the mask requirement thing.

The NRCoT does indeed apply to London Overground / TfL Rail services.

I would purchase a ticket from a non-TfL outlet to ensure there is no question that you are bound by National Rail T&Cs and not TfL's.

Furthermore, TfL are not enforcing face coverings even when it's mandated; it's simply not enforceable as anyone can self declare an exemption for a wide range of reasons. From Thursday there is no legal requirement and they are not going to deny anyone travel on that basis. I was in London this weekend and things are starting to look more normal even before the change on Thursday.

 

[trebor79]

The one thing that does worry me about the changes announced is the apparent end to self isolation for positive cases from no later than the 24th March, I can understand people wanting to get rid of contact isolation because of the chaos that's caused, but to say that someone who knows they have the virus doesn't need to self isolate seems a bit too far (also, announcing it two months early is strange from a government that and to try and announce as late as possible).

That doesn't worry me at all. COVID is no worse than flu, from a public health POV now, thanks to the vaccines. COVID isn't the only disease that can spread asymptomatically. There's no fundamental reason to my mind why it requires any response above the usual "you might want to keep upwind of me, I've got a stinking cold mate"

 

[John Luxton]

Always worth remembering that it could have been far worse. This is a genuine tweet from the First Minister of Queensland [their version of Sturgeon] introducing the Camp Commandant Commissioner of their new Toowomba Wellcamp Covid Quarantine Camp. It appears that Hugo Boss designed the eerily familiar uniform.

Hugo Boss appear to have a history of supplying stylish uniforms to dictatorial powers!

 

[DelayRepay]

That doesn't worry me at all. COVID is no worse than flu, from a public health POV now, thanks to the vaccines. COVID isn't the only disease that can spread asymptomatically. There's no fundamental reason to my mind why it requires any response above the usual "you might want to keep upwind of me, I've got a stinking cold mate"

I agree. Originally, I was keen to avoid Covid and so thought asking/mandating people who were infectious to stay home was a good idea. Now we have vaccines that, in the majority of cases prevent severe illness, I don't think it's necessary any more. I still think people should be sensible and if they do have Covid it would be better if they limited contact with others, especially the elderly and vulnerable. But the harm to society caused by locking people up is now probably greater than the harm to society of Covid circulating.

These decisions have to be taken on a macro level, i.e. what is in the best interest of the population as a whole, not a micro-level.

 

[trebor79]

I agree. Originally, I was keen to avoid Covid and so thought asking/mandating people who were infectious to stay home was a good idea. Now we have vaccines that, in the majority of cases prevent severe illness, I don't think it's necessary any more. I still think people should be sensible and if they do have Covid it would be better if they limited contact with others, especially the elderly and vulnerable. But the harm to society caused by locking people up is now probably greater than the harm to society of Covid circulating.

These decisions have to be taken on a macro level, i.e. what is in the best interest of the population as a whole, not a micro-level.

Indeed. My mum is what we would call CEV wrt to covid (on chemo for lymphoma) but she goes about her normal life. I had a stinking cold at the weekend so let her know as were were due to go and see them with the kids, "Oh I'm sure it'll be ok, I'll sit at the opposite end of the room". Mother in law decided she'd rather not see us "it could be COVID". Whatever. I didn't bother pointing out that having done 2 negative LFTs it's highly likely not to be COVID, and that if I did have COVID I'd probably asymptomatic and not test and not know. At least it meant I wasn't subjected to her dreadful tomato soup.

 

[102 fan]

There are various rumours that the vaccination requirements for NHS staff may be 'delayed'.

Given the alternative would appear to be the truly absurd situation now seen in many US states - where they fired the unvaccinated medical staff, and as a result are now so short-staffed that they're asking vaccinated staff with *symptomatic* breakthrough Covid infections to work with patients (!!!) - one has to hope so.

An example here:

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation...vid-to-return-even-if-they-may-be-infectious/

Just when you thought covid rules couldn't get any more bizarre!

 

[Simon11]

There are various rumours that the vaccination requirements for NHS staff may be 'delayed'.

I would put money on the table that they will be delayed and then get scrapped before coming into place with the first sackings. A simple way to put pressure on staff to get the vaccine without losing staff. I however struggle so much to understand why a health professional would be against getting a jab in the first place!

 

[takno]

I would put money on the table that they will be delayed and then get scrapped before coming into place with the first sackings. A simple way to put pressure on staff to get the vaccine without losing staff. I however struggle so much to understand why a health professional would be against getting a jab in the first place!

I think the short answer is that as health-care professionals they are qualified to make their own decisions, and it's not really important for you to understand them or not.

The longer answer is often much the same as for other people, but possibly informed by a more detailed understanding of they risks they are taking, and the risk to other people of their actions. If they are under 30 they may realise that their actual risk from the virus is diminishingly small. They may be fully aware that, having been exposed through their job, they have caught and recovered from the disease and achieved a decent level of immunity.

Combine that with the fact that they've already been worked half to death and pushed from pillar to post by the politicians (not doctors) who have created this policy. A lot of them are at low risk, and have a huge level of frustration in their job. It shouldn't be incredibly surprising if some of them have decided that retaining bodily autonomy, or even proving a point, is more important to them staying working for the next few months in an industry they know full-well will need them back soon anyway.

 

[davetheguard]

The NRCoT does indeed apply to London Overground / TfL Rail services.

I would purchase a ticket from a non-TfL outlet to ensure there is no question that you are bound by National Rail T&Cs and not TfL's.

Thanks for the confirmation & advice, yorkie.

I've not been on a train since the mask requirement went back on, so I'm looking forward to a personal "freedom day" on Thursday with a long mask-free day trip.

Myself & Mrs davetheguard have now booked a stay in London (well, Ealing actually) for next month, which will be our first visit together to the capital since Covid started. We're really looking forward to it, and will use trains that are covered by national conditions of carriage, but will probably mainly walk in central London itself. I really don't feel I want to give too much money in fares to the authoritarian Khan if I can avoid it.

 

[ExRes]

I however struggle so much to understand why a health professional would be against getting a jab in the first place!

Because they are people first and health professionals second, they alone have the right to choose whether they want to be vaccinated or not

 

[John Luxton]

I however struggle so much to understand why a health professional would be against getting a jab in the first place!

I would also suspect that some medical professionals are knowledgeable about adverse reactions.

It is known there have been adverse reactions to the jab, some fatal.

At present unless people make the apparently career destroying move of whistle blowing we may never know.

However, I think push back on the vaccine mandate for staff may well be due to the fact that the powers that be realise that facing the loss of their jobs some of those who remain unvaxed have information which they may end up putting into the public domain as they have nothing to lose anyway. - That really could put the cat amongst the pigeons!

 

[Bantamzen]

Because they are people first and health professionals second, they alone have the right to choose whether they want to be vaccinated or not

Exactly, plus of course front-line NHS staff were the most likely to be exposed to the virus especially during the first year when there were no vaccines. Its a very strong possibility that they are simply making a judgement call based on the fact that many have probably had covid, and of course recovered.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

It is known there have been adverse reactions to the jab, some fatal.

At present unless people make the apparently career destroying move of whistle blowing we may never know.

There is extensive information available on the precise adverse reactions experienced, including the number of deaths.

Are you implying these statistics have been falsified?

 

[John Luxton]

There is extensive information available on the precise adverse reactions experienced, including the number of deaths.

Are you implying these statistics have been falsified?

The fact is this person who was once very trusting has now lost a lot of faith in anything published regarding C19. When data and information has been distorted and we have been lied to I would accept nothing as being correct.

I have just checked the current figures for the UK as a whole and the number of adverse reactions is 410,000+ as a whole. How do we know that is accurate as many may not have reported them and has the info been "doctored"?

But that figure is truly appalling. It is months since I last checked. All it has done is reinforced my view that there is a good reason (410,000 good reasons) why so many NHS staff won't have it.

I will continue to drink the red wine which is apparently also just as good as fending off Covid and much more pleasurable. - Perhaps that is why I have never caught it!

 

[Eyersey468]

The fact is this person who was once very trusting has now lost a lot of faith in anything published regarding C19. When data and information has been distorted and we have been lied to I would accept nothing as being correct.

I agree, I haven't believed a word this government or the media has said for a long time

 

[trebor79]

Thanks for the confirmation & advice, yorkie.

I've not been on a train since the mask requirement went back on, so I'm looking forward to a personal "freedom day" on Thursday with a long mask-free day trip.

Myself & Mrs davetheguard have now booked a stay in London (well, Ealing actually) for next month, which will be our first visit together to the capital since Covid started. We're really looking forward to it, and will use trains that are covered by national conditions of carriage, but will probably mainly walk in central London itself. I really don't feel I want to give too much money in fares to the authoritarian Khan if I can avoid it.

Nobody will give two hoots at you being unmaksed on the tube. When I last travelled a fortnight or so ago, most of the passengers were masked, half the staff were not and nobody paid any attention whatsoever to my bare face. Given from Thursday it'll not be a law but merely a condition of carriage which the staff don't want to enforce anyway, you'll have no problems.

 

[bramling]

No more day 2 Covid tests when you come back to the UK (BBC News 1230)

Covid travel tests axed in England and Scotland for fully vaccinated

From 11 February, arrivals in England and Scotland will no longer have to take a test within 48 hours.

www.bbc.co.uk

No doubt this will be followed by a tsunami of cancellations for all those domestic "staycation" (what an awful word!) bookings which people never really wanted...

 

[westv]

No doubt this will be followed by a tsunami of cancellations for all those domestic "staycation" (what an awful word!) bookings which people never really wanted...

A word that seems to have been ripped away by the UK media from its original meaning.

 

[greyman42]

It is known there have been adverse reactions to the jab, some fatal.

A tiny percentage. There will be more chance of you being knocked down and killed on the way to or from work.

However, I think push back on the vaccine mandate for staff may well be due to the fact that the powers that be realise that facing the loss of their jobs some of those who remain unvaxed have information which they may end up putting into the public domain as they have nothing to lose anyway. - That really could put the cat amongst the pigeons!

Fantasy.

I will continue to drink the red wine which is apparently also just as good as fending off Covid and much more pleasurable. - Perhaps that is why I have never caught it!

The hangover you may have the next morning is about the same as the adverse reactions you speak off.

 

[jumble]

Nobody will give two hoots at you being unmaksed on the tube. When I last travelled a fortnight or so ago, most of the passengers were masked, half the staff were not and nobody paid any attention whatsoever to my bare face. Given from Thursday it'll not be a law but merely a condition of carriage which the staff don't want to enforce anyway, you'll have no problems.

Today on Jubilee about 50% compliance
I think Emma Gibson made this up.

People feel safer when face masks are worn say London TravelWatch
20 January 2022

Commenting on the decision to remove Covid Plan B restrictions next week, meaning face coverings won’t be mandated on National Rail, London TravelWatch Director, Emma Gibson said: '7 out of 10 people say that they feel safer on public transport if other people are wearing face coverings, this figure is even higher for older people and those who use public transport more regularly'.

 

[greyman42]

Today on Jubilee about 50% compliance
I think Emma Gibson made this up.

People feel safer when face masks are worn say London TravelWatch
20 January 2022

Commenting on the decision to remove Covid Plan B restrictions next week, meaning face coverings won’t be mandated on National Rail, London TravelWatch Director, Emma Gibson said: '7 out of 10 people say that they feel safer on public transport if other people are wearing face coverings, this figure is even higher for older people and those who use public transport more regularly'.

So from Thursday we will still have 70% of passengers wearing masks?

 

[danm14]

Today on Jubilee about 50% compliance
I think Emma Gibson made this up.

People feel safer when face masks are worn say London TravelWatch
20 January 2022

Commenting on the decision to remove Covid Plan B restrictions next week, meaning face coverings won’t be mandated on National Rail, London TravelWatch Director, Emma Gibson said: '7 out of 10 people say that they feel safer on public transport if other people are wearing face coverings, this figure is even higher for older people and those who use public transport more regularly'.

70% of people feeling safer on public transport if other people are wearing face coverings is entirely compatible with less than 50% of people wearing face coverings on public transport.

To amend that smug phrase: "Your mask protects me, I don't care if I protect you."

 

[John Luxton]

A tiny percentage. There will be more chance of you being knocked down and killed on the way to or from work.


Fantasy.


The hangover you may have the next morning is about the same as the adverse reactions you speak off.

I don't get hangovers - just a pleasant nights heavy sleep sometime with crazy dreams! I use the the knocked down and killed comparison for my chance of catching covid having broken more English and Welsh covid rules than BoJo has had parties and still being alive despite predictions in spring 2020 I would be dead by now! Unvaxed too by the way.

 

[johntea]

I would say walking round Leeds station and on board trains yesterday it was about 60/40 in favour of wearing a mask, I certainly wasn't wearing one anyway! (always amusing watching many, many people just pull their old one out of their coat pocket and shove it back in there afterwards too!)

One thing did make me laugh last week in that an event I was attending required 'proof of negative lateral flow test result via text/email', despite the fact a)I could just take a test, have it come back positive and report it as negative to the NHS for them to be none the wiser and b)the text / email back from the NHS was so generic I could now just create a new 'NHSresult' contact on my phone with the number from another phone, copy the text they sent and just modify the date each time!

 

[DelayRepay]

One thing did make me laugh last week in that an event I was attending required 'proof of negative lateral flow test result via text/email', despite the fact a)I could just take a test, have it come back positive and report it as negative to the NHS for them to be none the wiser and b)the text / email back from the NHS was so generic I could now just create a new 'NHSresult' contact on my phone with the number from another phone, copy the text they sent and just modify the date each time!

You could even not take the test at all - just scanning the QR code from an unused test and telling the website it was negative would generate the required text message. I've always thought this checking text messages was a nonsense because they provide no proof that a test has even been taken, let alone that the person does not have Covid-19.

At the events I've been to where it was required, all it has achieved is longer queues due to the extra checking required.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I however struggle so much to understand why a health professional would be against getting a jab in the first place!

Lots of health staff are against getting the jab.

For one, if they are fit and healthy, and even have caught Covid from working on the front line, they'll have antibodies

Secondly, it's the forced mandation and threat of sacking which goes against every moral, ethical and values of the NHS including informed and voluntary consent to treatment

 

[duncanp]

It is somewhat depressing, but predictable, that so many companies and organisations are "recommending" that people continue to wear masks from tomorrow.

"Public health authorities" in Wolverhampton and Sainsbury's supermarkets being amongst the latest.