East Anglia fleet future cascade options

[childwallblues]

Stock like the 60s and the 508s have been sat idle for so long that they'd cost a fortune to get back to reasonable service.

The idle 508s were scrapped.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If either Southern or SWT ever were to get any of their routes converted to AC, how close would the 321s be to the 455s (for drivers, guards and fitters)?

 

[fgwrich]

If either Southern or SWT ever were to get any of their routes converted to AC, how close would the 321s be to the 455s (for drivers, guards and fitters)?

321s would be closer surely to the 456s?

 

[Class377/5]

If either Southern or SWT ever were to get any of their routes converted to AC, how close would the 321s be to the 455s (for drivers, guards and fitters)?

Wouldn't really matter as there won't be an 455s by the time any AC wiring gets done and their replacements (along with the 313s) will be dv capable units from the off. Just like the 387/2.

 

[anthony263]

ATW could do with more dmu's especially on the Marches and north wales coast routes.

Even some additional class 153's would go a long way to help relieve the rolling stock shortage for a short while

 

[northwichcat]

Even some additional class 153's would go a long way to help relieve the rolling stock shortage for a short while

As I suggested further up it would almost seem logical for ATW to get all the 153s if the ROSCOs plan to keep them in service post-2019 (EMT getting 156s to replace theirs and LM getting Turbostars to replace theirs.) That way the Pacers could go as ATW getting extra capacity.

 

[sd0733]

As I suggested further up it would almost seem logical for ATW to get all the 153s if the ROSCOs plan to keep them in service post-2019 (EMT getting 156s to replace theirs and LM getting Turbostars to replace theirs.) That way the Pacers could go as ATW getting extra capacity.

As a fleet standardisation I'd have thought EMT would be the logical place really for the 153s to end up. The 158s could be dedicated to Liverpool to Norwich with 20 units kept and 6 transferred to ATW. The 42 '155s' (35 2 car ex 153s and 7 west yorks ones) then replace the current 17 153s, 15 156s and the 6 158s giving an extra 4 units in the EMT fleet. The 156s then transfer to Northern with 7 to replace the 155s and the other 8 to displace 150/2s which then go to ATW along with the 6 158s to replace the 153s and add some capacity. LM gets D-trains for the branches and the additional 170s from AGA to replace the 153s there.
That way everyone sees a unit increase and a more standard fleet which should increase utilisation and get another diagram or two that way aswell.

 

[ainsworth74]

If either Southern or SWT ever were to get any of their routes converted to AC, how close would the 321s be to the 455s (for drivers, guards and fitters)?

Got to be totally academic surely? By the time the wires get anywhere near the routes that 455s currently operate on (if, even, they ever do!) they'll be long gone!

 

[MatthewRead]

This is why the lines in Devon need to be electrified then we could put the 321s there

 

[BR60062]

In terms of the railways and with all this new stock coming out to play so to speak. The days of the older units are numbered as I remember as a kid back the later 1980's when all these then new trains which were 142/143/144/150/153/155/156 DMU's and 317/318/319/320/321/322 etc as well as the Class 90/91's and DVTS etc were coming out at the end of the 1980's a lot a locomotives, first gen DMU's etc were being pulled by BR at the time as I remember very well when most trains were 40/44/45/46/47 hauled and on the Derby-Skegness working back then. You had two Class 20's with a set of Mk1's on that route which was enjoyable but cold in the winter.

Personally I miss the old loco-hauled stock but I have learned a very valuable lesson in terms of getting photos of trains and anything in life that matters. Never take anything for granted because once its gone, the chances are that its gone for good. So I am doing my rounds at the moment and getting as many photos of the older trains as I can muster as the fourth generation units and trains are coming out thick and fast.

Although in regards to the Class 321's. They were one of the most reliable rock solid EMU's that BR had in its fleet anywhere. So I think they will still be around for a few years yet even if most of them venture up North. Also with the electrification of other lines taking place. I think that whilst most of the second gen EMU's will be okay for now. I would assume that perhaps some DMU's will be displaced from their route when and if those lines are electrified for EMU's .

 

[CosherB]

Although in regards to the Class 321's. They were one of the most reliable rock solid EMU's that BR had in its fleet anywhere. So I think they will still be around for a few years yet even if most of them venture up North.

Thanks for your cast-offs .... again!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What's the seating capacity of a 360 compared with a 455 coupled to a 456 (SWT)?

 

[43074]

What's the seating capacity of a 360 compared with a 455 coupled to a 456 (SWT)?

Completely irrelevant... If they end up anywhere London Midland would be my bet, especially if they can replace the 319s.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[northwichcat]

Completely irrelevant... If they end up anywhere London Midland would be my bet, especially if they can replace the 319s.

Off-lease EMUs which could go to LM:
17 x 323s
10 x 350s
21 x 360s

Are LM bidders going to be able to justify adding 41 extra electric trains to the fleet? If not either they aren't going to take on something which might seem logical to go to LM or they'll release more than just the 319s.

 

[D365]

Although in regards to the Class 321's. They were one of the most reliable rock solid EMU's that BR had in its fleet anywhere. So I think they will still be around for a few years yet even if most of them venture up North.

Thanks for your cast-offs .... again!

Don't think that he is aware that Northern are disposing of their existing 321/322 fleet..!

 

[The Ham]

Off-lease EMUs which could go to LM:
17 x 323s
10 x 350s
21 x 360s

Are LM bidders going to be able to justify adding 41 extra electric trains to the fleet? If not either they aren't going to take on something which might seem logical to go to LM or they'll release more than just the 319s.

It also raises the question, are the LM bidders going to want to wait about 2 years for the EA units to become free before they can increase the number of EMU's that they have?

The 350's make sense as they could be available a little bit sooner.

 

[northwichcat]

The 350's make sense as they could be available a little bit sooner.

2 year+ wait applies to other EMUs as well.

The 350/4s to be released by TPE between 11 November 2018 and 30 April 2019.

The 17 Northern 323s are leased until 31st Dec 2018.

 

[NotATrainspott]

If Abellio are going with a number of 10-car fixed-formation EMUs for stopping GEML long distance services, could LM justify having relatively fixed formation 12-car 350 rakes? If a 360 is just a 350 with a different cab then surely it would be possible to swap driving vehicles between the two classes. If so, it would be possible to make up 12 car sets with the gangway-less 360 driving cars at either end. The intermediate cabs can be left as-is and used if required, and it wouldn't be the end of the world if the sets did get messed up sometimes (unlike ideas of blunt and pointy-ended high speed trains which would have different performance characteristics if the two sets joined in the wrong direction).

 

[edwin_m]

Are Bulgaria or any other Eastern European countries with standard gauge and 25kV looking for cheap EMUs?

 

[Class 319]

Is it possible to convert the 379s to dual voltage for use on 3rd rail networks and after they are electrified to 25kv?

 

[southern442]

Is it possible to convert the 379s to dual voltage for use on 3rd rail networks and after they are electrified to 25kv?

It could be but I don't think many people would be too willing. I personally think if they do go anywhere I would love for them to go to GatEx to replace the 387's because the 379's are actually designed for airport travel whereas the 387's are crap.

(opinion)

 

[Class377/5]

It could be but I don't think many people would be too willing. I personally think if they do go anywhere I would love for them to go to GatEx to replace the 387's because the 379's are actually designed for airport travel whereas the 387's are crap.

(opinion)

Agreed. However its worth noting the 379 are supposed to be very expensive to hire where as more modern stock is not so.

 

[43096]

Agreed. However its worth noting the 379 are supposed to be very expensive to hire where as more modern stock is not so.

Of course, a period off lease might concentrate minds with the owners - and see leasing charges drop to get them back into service.

 

[F Great Eastern]

In the other forum, it is now being reported that a further
6 x 321
13 x 317

Are going to Greater Anglia as an interim addition to the fleet between 2017-2019.

This is another 80 carriages that will also become free in 2019/2020 then in addition to the ones already discussed.

 

[southern442]

I'm not sure whether to start a new thread or not, but I saw in RAIL magazine that the aventras that Abellio want to order will come in 5 and 10 car formations. This seems incredibly short-sighted given that most outer-suburban services have 12 car trains during the peak hours at least. Can anyone confirm this, and if there are any mods that wish to separate this topic please feel free to do so.

 

[Class377/5]

I'm not sure whether to start a new thread or not, but I saw in RAIL magazine that the aventras that Abellio want to order will come in 5 and 10 car formations. This seems incredibly short-sighted given that most outer-suburban services have 12 car trains during the peak hours at least. Can anyone confirm this, and if there are any mods that wish to separate this topic please feel free to do so.

Have the carriage lengths been confirmed? If they are 23more Adventra like 345 then 10 cars is almost 12 cars of 20m stock like the 710s.

The Flirt units are actually being articulated units, confirmed in Modern Railways.

 

[Esker-pades]

Here are my thoughts

Class 90 - Freight operations. Anything of Fl, DBS or DRS. Maybe even Colas.

Class 153 - ATW for lengthening purposes.

Class 156 - EMT.

Class 170 - XC or LM.

Class 321 - The electrified Valley Lines is attractive, but short term, storage or even back to LM to displace 319s further north and free up 350s so there are fewer 4 car services. Some could go to Northern.

Class 360 - Along with the HC stock, c2c?

MK3s - Scrap. Probably.

 

[Alfie1014]

I'm not sure whether to start a new thread or not, but I saw in RAIL magazine that the aventras that Abellio want to order will come in 5 and 10 car formations. This seems incredibly short-sighted given that most outer-suburban services have 12 car trains during the peak hours at least. Can anyone confirm this, and if there are any mods that wish to separate this topic please feel free to do so.

It has been confirmed that the 10 car trains will be 240m and the 5 cars 110m so a 10 car will be as long as a current 12 car.

 

[D365]

In the other forum, it is now being reported that a further
6 x 321
13 x 317

Are going to Greater Anglia as an interim addition to the fleet between 2017-2019.

This is another 80 carriages that will also become free in 2019/2020 then in addition to the ones already discussed.

Unless some units are being returned from London Overground, where would 13 317s come from? [Great Northern has 12 coming off-lease shortly]

Class 321 - The electrified Valley Lines is attractive, but short term, storage or even back to LM to displace 319s further north and free up 350s so there are fewer 4 car services. Some could go to Northern.

Northern is getting rid of their existing 321/322 fleet at the same time, unless they're taking refurbished units I don't see why people keep suggesting this.

Class 360 - Along with the HC stock, c2c?[/QUOTE]

Brand new stock is a franchise commitment. Most likely more 387s.

It has been confirmed that the 10 car trains will be 240m and the 5 cars 110m so a 10 car will be as long as a current 12 car.

Don't you mean 120m? As that would make units asymetrical.

 

[43074]

In the other forum, it is now being reported that a further
6 x 321
13 x 317

Are going to Greater Anglia as an interim addition to the fleet between 2017-2019.

This is another 80 carriages that will also become free in 2019/2020 then in addition to the ones already discussed.

Unless some units are being returned from London Overground, where would 13 317s come from? [Great Northern has 12 coming off-lease shortly]

Abellio have said it's actually 6x321s and 12x317s (i.e. 72 vehicles) - as quoted by ginger in the other thread and by Richard Clinnick on Twitter - in which case it is highly likely to be the 317s and and some of the 321 sets released from GN by the 700s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Don't you mean 120m? As that would make units asymetrical.

I'm pretty sure they will actually be 115m, but yes the vehicle lengths of the 5 car and 10 car sets will be different.