East Coast Class 90?

[MCR247]

East Coast are apparantly signing a deal with DBS to provide 2 90s to be run on the Leeds- London runs..

1 will be out daily with one on spare.

Does anyone know what stock this would use?

 

[Masbroughlad]

East Coast are apparantly signing a deal with DBS to provide 2 90s to be run on the Leeds- London runs..

1 will be out daily with one on spare.

Does anyone know what stock this would use?

Do they go fast enough?

Why would they want a 90 anyway? Shortage of 91s?

 

[87015]

The deal is to provide one skoda. Although I suppose they are so rubbish and unreliable they'll need a second one shadowing it for when it fails.

The new timetable has stretched the fleet a bit too far AFAIK.

 

[43167]

My guess is the 91's are coming for a major exam as its nearly 10 years since they went through Doncaster for their last major overhaul. When that happened, GNER hired a 90 on a daily basis from EWS.

They would work on Kings Cross-Leeds as they can keep time on that run.

The stock they would work on would be a standard Mk 4 set, as they have done in the past in GNER days and before.

 

[driver9000]

90024 was the 'dedicated' GNER locomotive and received their livery although it was unbranded as I recall.

 

[captainbigun]

Good luck with that if it happens. Their casualty rate isn't good reading.

 

[465fan]

Confirmed two are on the cards.

 

[Liam]

90024 was the 'dedicated' GNER locomotive and received their livery although it was unbranded as I recall.

90024 is now a Scotrail branded one I think.

 

[MCR247]

The deal is to provide one skoda. Although I suppose they are so rubbish and unreliable they'll need a second one shadowing it for when it fails.

Two, one on spare and one in use

 

[GNERman]

Excellent ...

I've also heard that the fleet is now very stretched...

Anyway, more of a reason to go to Donny more often...

 

[silentone]

They seem to be looking to create an additional set, I heard some management talking about what spare coaching stock (TGS & Buffet) they had and what could be 'sourced' to make a complete set.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Excellent ...

I've also heard that the fleet is now very stretched...

Anyway, more of a reason to go to Donny more often...

Never seen a class 90 before and im now based in leeds, i cant wait. gonna go get a ride on it too. And my other home being sheffield with a south yorkshire travel pass ill be off to donny too.

 

[GNERman]

They seem to be looking to create an additional set, I heard some management talking about what spare coaching stock (TGS & Buffet) they had and what could be 'sourced' to make a complete set.

are there any spare Mark 4's after the write off's???

 

[yorkie]

Do they go fast enough?

Lower gearing means they will be fine on the start-stop turns.

Never seen a class 90 before

Really? :eek:

and im now based in leeds, i cant wait. gonna go get a ride on it too. And my other home being sheffield with a south yorkshire travel pass ill be off to donny too.

There's not much difference between a 90 and a 91. But of course, the ride on a 90 will not be as smooth starting, you may feel a bit of a bump when power is first applied, particularly if the 90 is propelling and you're in Coach B. Nothing too exciting

are there any spare Mark 4's after the write off's???

Hmm, a rake cobbled together from ex-HST Mk3s plus Mk4s? I'll believe it when I see it!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Really? :eek:


There's not much difference between a 90 and a 91. But of course, the ride on a 90 will not be as smooth starting, you may feel a bit of a bump when power is first applied, particularly if the 90 is propelling and you're in Coach B. Nothing too exciting

i lie i saw one once, but brief and through a car window...

Thanks, still want to do it just to say i have who knows how much longer they will be around with DBS kiling them left right and centre

 

[RichW1]

The 90 will only keep to time because of padding surely? You can lower gearing and faster acceleration but if you can only do 110mph, the 91 will still catch it up going 15mph faster over just a few miles!

Have you ever seen the difference between 85 and 100mph when driving? It wouldn't matter how quickly the other car accelerated but with just a 15mph speed dif you'd catch it up easily! I don't believe there is so little 125mph track on the ECML that a 90 can keep to real time of a 91.

 

[silentone]

are there any spare Mark 4's after the write off's???

They seemed to be suggesting a MK3 set (from the TGS comment) rather than MK4's. The mysterious MK3 Buffet that was to be converted for use in a MK4 set never came to anything like they were once bragging about.

 

[90019]

90024 is now a Scotrail branded one I think.

It is indeed in ScotRail livery, along with 019 and 021.

 

[Aictos]

Although they are likely to be used on the London to Leeds workings, what's stopping East Coast putting the set on the London to Newark Northgate/London to York services?

Surely they can keep to time on the last two routes just as well as on the Leeds route?

That being said, how long will this be for and will we see the pair in EC livery?

 

[E&W Lucas]

The 90 will only keep to time because of padding surely? You can lower gearing and faster acceleration but if you can only do 110mph, the 91 will still catch it up going 15mph faster over just a few miles!

Have you ever seen the difference between 85 and 100mph when driving? It wouldn't matter how quickly the other car accelerated but with just a 15mph speed dif you'd catch it up easily! I don't believe there is so little 125mph track on the ECML that a 90 can keep to real time of a 91.

90's have been used on the ECML London - Leeds jobs before without any problems. Their faster acceleration does indeed allow them to keep time on those services with more frequent stops.

 

[Failed Unit]

Ironically plan a for London - york stoppers was the 90s. They would certainly keep up on that route but they are a set down anyway at the moment with the Mk4 repainting program which I understand completes soon.

I guess the pretendolino may be free soon once the extra pendo's start arriving.

I can dream because I know it is NOT going to happen but the 90 could realease a Hst under the wires (there are 4 diagrams at the moment that have HSt but are 100% under wires) this could provide the London - Lincoln service.

 

[SC318250]

90034 is almost ready to re-enter service having recieved new wheelsets, and I believe 90027 is now in receiving new wheelsets. 90029/039 also require new wheelsets.

Be interesting to see whether a few of the ones that were for dispossal are now returned to service

 

[Failed Unit]

For anyone interested east coast operate the following.

12 HST diagrams with 13 sets (4 totally under wire diagrams)
26 Electric diagrams with 29 sets. The 30th set is getting work done to it. There is also an extra loco.

Once the work on the mk4s is done I guess they have the flexibity to use more electrics should the need take them.

 

[GNERman]

Whilst this is good speculating, when is this due to commence???

 

[TheBigD]

The July issue of Today's Railways lists all of East Coasts 13 HST diagrams and 26 Mk4 daigrams.

Also lists XC/FGW/EMT HST diagrams as well.

 

[captainbigun]

90's have been used on the ECML London - Leeds jobs before without any problems. Their faster acceleration does indeed allow them to keep time on those services with more frequent stops.

Did, NR claim it's now a 125mph railway so I don't think it's as clear cut as it was back in the late 90s. Also don't forget that GNER chose to spend half a million quid on the 89 rather than hire a 90, it was cheaper to do that during the 91 HGR programme. My experience of the skodas back then was late arrival most of the time, I used EC frequently between Stevenage and Donny en route to Sheffield.

There's a reason why VT went to FL for their pretendalino 90. This, if it happens, will be a farce. There's no way DBS will spend significant cash on any of the 90s, it simply won't pay to do so.

If they are looking for another set, there aren't exactly a pile of Mk3 DVTs ready for use. If the skodas are for use with Mk4s they'll need working UIC connectors and rubbing plates.

 

[cj_1985]

correct me if im wrong... but i seem to recall that NR or the ORR imposed restrictions on timetabled passenger services (as opposed to freight or charters) ... requiring 125mph stock to be used from iirc 2005/2006... which was one of the reasons that Hull Trains had to order the Pioneer/Meridian units... and that required GC to use redundant HST Power cars and carraiges atleast on the southern end of the ECML

so would EC be permitted to use a 110mph loco on regular timetabled services... unless the class 90s have superior acceleration compared to the class 91s.... even if they do, would that make enough difference to keep enough time so that it doesnt knock the whole diagram to pot...?

 

[WestCountry]

89 rather than hire a 90

Well...it's still around isn't it?

 

[E&W Lucas]

correct me if im wrong... but i seem to recall that NR or the ORR imposed restrictions on timetabled passenger services (as opposed to freight or charters) ... requiring 125mph stock to be used from iirc 2005/2006... which was one of the reasons that Hull Trains had to order the Pioneer/Meridian units... and that required GC to use redundant HST Power cars and carraiges atleast on the southern end of the ECML

so would EC be permitted to use a 110mph loco on regular timetabled services... unless the class 90s have superior acceleration compared to the class 91s.... even if they do, would that make enough difference to keep enough time so that it doesnt knock the whole diagram to pot...?

The 90 should keep time on a semi fast, as their average speed shouldn't be too much different. That was the experience previously. Whether NR has relaxed the 125 mph passenger traction only rule on the ECML, I do not know.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the expensive and time consuming reality of crew training for this. At least a week in the classroom at a guess. That's a lot of driving turns to cover.

I'm taking some convincing that this isn't just another enthusiast rumour.

 

[37372]

The Freightliner 90s do a bloody good job when working 1K39 every Friday night, yes they run a few mins behind schedule because they run on pendo timings, but it's reasonable (unless it gets stuck in a typical WCML farce...).