East Coast dry train trial

[Marklund]

And I think it's obvious how it will "affect the free alcoholic beverages as part of the first class service"... there won't be any between Aberdeen and Newcastle!

Really? I don't think it's obvious at all, and you've missed the point.

Will they be providing refunds, or vouchers, to FC passengers who bought a ticket, that included a service that they're no longer going to provide?

 

[yorksrob]

They are obviously doing it to target a particular problem-would you not prefer they do this that cause long delays whilst kicking drunks off or passengers feeling threatened and intimidated by drunks?

Its certainly not an abuse of privilege, I'm sure you can last 4 hours without alcohol!

Are people really that many people so hammerred on a morning train as to be a threat to public order ?

I've shared a carriage with a few stag and hen doos during the daytime when they're on their way out, and whilst many of them can be rather loud and boisterous at that stage (and dare I say it annoying - although no more annoying than screaming kids, smelly dogs or people with stilton sandwiches) I've never found them to be threatening.

I can last for four hours without a drink - although heaven forbid I should inadvertantly end up on one of these services !

 

[DarloRich]

I know plenty of people dislike this, but I personally think its a great idea. Will be glad when its extended to the whole network. A train is not a place for drinking alcohol.

Why? I think it is a stupid idea.

I really don't feel comfortable sitting on a train whilst someone is drinking alcohol nearby. I just cannot trust whether they are just having a casual drink or are full on alchy's.

It gives the chance for some people to not drink as much as they would normally, which I believe is a good thing and can help people live a better life quality wise.

:roll: I can sit on the train and drink a few ales and not cause trouble, smash up the train or attack you. I will also control my own alcohol intake and the time i do take any alcohol. I do not need you to do it, nor do i need you to help me. Why shouldn’t I be allowed to have a drink? What gives you the right to impose your quasi temperance movement beliefs on me?

If a train is to be made dry it should be to counter a specific threat to public order or a danger to themselves or others. I do think there should be more control of the level of consumption on board. If you are inebriated you should not be served.
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As you can tell this kind of thing really winds me up. I do not seek to impose my beliefs on others, do not try to impose yours on mine.

Finally, if I think someone is out of order I will challenge them. Perhaps if more of you did instead of skulking in the corner tutting things would be better. What are YOU prepared to do about it?

 

[Marklund]

The answer on this service is a noisy coach where these parties can all sit together, and not bother anyone else.

 

[Smethwickian]

Will they be providing refunds, or vouchers, to FC passengers who bought a ticket, that included a service that they're no longer going to provide?

There's always small print.

EC's website says complimentary alcohol is offered in First Class "from lunchtime" BUT after all the information about First Class food and drink adds a final catch-all get-out clause: "Please note, we aim to deliver our complimentary offer on all journeys. However we may substitute some items on the menu at our discretion. Items are offered subject to availability."

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/on-board-our-trains/food1/complimentary-food-and-drink1/

So if, at the company's discretion, the availability of alcohol is zero, then tough.

 

[A-driver]

Really? I don't think it's obvious at all, and you've missed the point.

Will they be providing refunds, or vouchers, to FC passengers who bought a ticket, that included a service that they're no longer going to provide?

You havnt paid for an alcoholic drink though. You have paid for train travel from a-b. The service is complimentary - its not what you are paying for. They will still provide food, soft and hot drinks.

As I have said before-its a train, not a restaraunt.

 

[Marklund]

You havnt paid for an alcoholic drink though. You have paid for train travel from a-b. The service is complimentary - its not what you are paying for. They will still provide food, soft and hot drinks.

As I have said before-its a train, not a restaraunt.

No, it's an advertised feature of the service.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Its only between Edinburgh and Newcastle where FC passengers will miss out on booze, i'm sure they will survive for that 90 mins.
Any alcohol confiscated will probably be put in the TGS, for passengers to take back at Newcastle.

 

[221129]

Its only between Edinburgh and Newcastle where FC passengers will miss out on booze, i'm sure they will survive for that 90 mins.
Any alcohol confiscated will probably be put in the TGS, for passengers to take back at Newcastle.

If it is Taken by BTP then I would have thought it would be seized and destroyed....

 

[gnolife]

East Coast is emailing those who have booked tickets for the Friday 09.52 from Aberdeen via its website, www.eastcoast.co.uk and from other leading online ticket retailers, to let them know in advance about the change.

During the trial period, British Transport Police officers will enforce the alcohol ban at stations where the train calls, as well as on-board the service.

They appear to have botched this slightly. How on earth is someone who doesn't read their website who has bought their ticket from the station supposed to know that this restriction has been imposed, and therefore know not to attempt to bring a bottle for later (I know I like a bottle of beer when travelling in the afternoon sorta time)

 

[A-driver]

No, it's an advertised feature of the service.

I can't see anything on their website saying that alcoholic drinks are a garunteed part of the first class ticket.

Plus you are still paying for a train ride, not a meal or drink which is free and so can't get a refund.

It does say on the website that stuff is available subject to avaliability and may be changed.

 

[142094]

A few posts back I mentioned that there was very little drinking on the tube - well, yes that's definitely not the case for Metro!

I think part (but only part) of the problem is the lack of any police presence. BTP don't police the T&W Metro and (other than on matchdays) I've never seen a Northumbria Police office on board.

There was a lot of talk a few years ago about Metro hiring on-board staff for evenings (not security per se) but I've never seen one.

BTP only patrol the Sunderland extension, Northumbria Police Metro Police Unit do the rest of the system, but they are normally out in a van attending to incidents. Still, a fair few people are kicked off or taken to court for alcohol-related events every month.

 

[Butts]

Its only between Edinburgh and Newcastle where FC passengers will miss out on booze, i'm sure they will survive for that 90 mins.
Any alcohol confiscated will probably be put in the TGS, for passengers to take back at Newcastle.

As long as they serve "double measures" ex Newcastle in 1st Class this shouldn't present a problem

 

[merlodlliw]

If it is Taken by BTP then I would have thought it would be seized and destroyed....

seized yes.

 

[transmanche]

Really? I don't think it's obvious at all, and you've missed the point.

Er, I think when it says all alcohol is banned - it means all alcohol is banned. That's fairly straightforward.

Will they be providing refunds, or vouchers, to FC passengers who bought a ticket, that included a service that they're no longer going to provide?

Why would they offer refunds or vouchers for something which is complimentary and 'subject to availability'? Do they offer refunds or vouchers for people travelling at the weekend, when no free alcohol is on offer? No. Do they offer refunds or vouchers for people travelling on other nominated 'dry' trains (usually to/from football matches)? No.
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BTP only patrol the Sunderland extension, Northumbria Police Metro Police Unit do the rest of the system, but they are normally out in a van attending to incidents. Still, a fair few people are kicked off or taken to court for alcohol-related events every month.

Sod's law... today at lunchtime two Northumbria Police officers boarded my Metro at Four Lane Ends. And late this afternoon, a PCSO was alighting the Metro at North Shields as I boarded.

First time ever!

 

[142094]

Sod's law... today at lunchtime two Northumbria Police officers boarded my Metro at Four Lane Ends. And late this afternoon, a PCSO was alighting the Metro at North Shields as I boarded.

First time ever!

Expect to see more police 'action' when the barriers start being used (eventually).

 

[Antman]

I am one of "those" who do like to have a beer on the train. But I always do it in moderation - but I understand some do get very "vocal" and occasionally anti-social under the influence of alcohol.

But, it is the minority spoiling it for the majority I'm afraid once again.

Exactly.

Is it ALL alcohol that is banned or just open containers of alcohol? If somebody has some alcohol for later consumption then surely that shouldn't be a problem?

 

[transmanche]

Expect to see more police 'action' when the barriers start being used (eventually).

Shame that they've opted for the same slow barriers as East Coast use at Newcastle Central (and other stations)... I can see them becoming a bit of a pain.

 

[142094]

Shame that they've opted for the same slow barriers as East Coast use at Newcastle Central (and other stations)... I can see them becoming a bit of a pain.

Will be interesting to see what happens at Monument when three or four train loads come in at the peak. I've already asked the same question but it seems no-one is listening.

 

[DarloRich]

Christ on a bike!

Have people never traveled on a dry train? if you have some booze for later ( perhaps when you get home) just leave it in your bag. The police wont be searching everyone and confiscating any booze they find.

if you openly have some drink with you, are drinking or are drunk they will concentrate on you. If you look sober and without alcohol they wont bat an eyelid at you

 

[transmanche]

Will be interesting to see what happens at Monument when three or four train loads come in at the peak. I've already asked the same question but it seems no-one is listening.

I can see them having to open the barriers, to stop the queue 'backing up' onto the escalators and becoming dangerous.

Sorry everyone, we've gone well off-topic now...

 

[142094]

Christ oin a bike!

if you have some booze for later ( perhaps when you get home) just leave it in your bag. The police wont be searching everyone and confiscating any booze they find.

As long as it isn't a transparent plastic bag that is - interesting to see how many people think they can get away with it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I can see them having to open the barriers, to stop the queue 'backing up' onto the escalators and becoming dangerous.

Sorry everyone, we've gone well off-topic now...

I'll post over on the Metro page.

 

[DarloRich]

As long as it isn't a transparent plastic bag that is - interesting to see how many people think they can get away with it.

stick it in your rucksack and behave. It is the people who smuggle it on, often going to extraordinary lengths THEN get caught drinking it on the train i love!

 

[142094]

stick it in your rucksack and behave. It is the people who smuggle it on, often going to extraordinary lengths THEN get caught drinking it on the train i love!

Aye, just listen for the "tshh" sound of the can or bottles being opened...

 

[A-driver]

It seems that once again this thread is just a case of certain people not liking to have to do as they are told!

East coast wouldn't make dry trains without reason-it limits their onboard revenue aswell. They obviously have good reason to do this or else they wouldn't. Its certainly not a case of abusing their power/privilege.

People also don't book first class tickets just for free alcohol-its not Garunteed and certainly isn't what you are paying for.

Its really a non-issue. If you can't last a few hours on a train without needing alcohol then you need to seek help! Surely it was worse when they banned smoking from trains-but people accept that now.

 

[Liam]

Christ on a bike!

Have people never traveled on a dry train? if you have some booze for later ( perhaps when you get home) just leave it in your bag. The police wont be searching everyone and confiscating any booze they find.

That's what I have done on Scotrails dry trains without any problem, even when stopped by two friendly officers I was told I could finish the tin I was drinking before I boarded, but not to drink on the train.

 

[Butts]

People also don't book first class tickets just for free alcohol-its not Garunteed and certainly isn't what you are paying for.

Its really a non-issue. If you can't last a few hours on a train without needing alcohol then you need to seek help! Surely it was worse when they banned smoking from trains-but people accept that now.

If the behaviour is as I suspect limited to passengers in Standard Class then the service in 1st Class should not be made to suffer.

On a similar basis Alcohol is often available in Corporate Hospitality at Football Grounds and not in other areas.

On the 1st Class section of the Train it is not being sold therefore standard passengers would not be discriminated against - it is merely part of the package.

Smoking don't get me started - bring it back in 1st Class only.

 

[transmanche]

On a similar basis Alcohol is often available in Corporate Hospitality at Football Grounds and not in other areas.

Not heard of that, but even in corporate hospitality areas alcohol can't be drunk in view of the pitch.

Certain competitions prohibit all alcohol in stadia; the UEFA Champions League and Europa League for example. Amusing because Heineken is one of the sponsors of the Champions League...

 

[Antman]

It seems that once again this thread is just a case of certain people not liking to have to do as they are told!

East coast wouldn't make dry trains without reason-it limits their onboard revenue aswell. They obviously have good reason to do this or else they wouldn't. Its certainly not a case of abusing their power/privilege.

People also don't book first class tickets just for free alcohol-its not Garunteed and certainly isn't what you are paying for.

Its really a non-issue. If you can't last a few hours on a train without needing alcohol then you need to seek help! Surely it was worse when they banned smoking from trains-but people accept that now.

I don't think anybody needs 'help' but I think its not unreasonable to expect to enjoy a drink or two on a long distance journey.

 

[yorksrob]

Not heard of that, but even in corporate hospitality areas alcohol can't be drunk in view of the pitch.

Certain competitions prohibit all alcohol in stadia; the UEFA Champions League and Europa League for example. Amusing because Heineken is one of the sponsors of the Champions League...

One of the reasons why I follow the egg shaped ball rather than association football.