In all fairness, Scotrail should be operating frequent local services on the route. Having Dunbar served only by East Coast (and the occasional Scotrail to plug in gaps when it's convenient) just isn't good enough. I really hope that over the next few years Scotrail's Dunbar service is improved to properly link the town to the rail network.
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East Coast Eureka clockface timetable May 2011
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It's very well the armchair experts calling for it but the demand on the route shows people travelling South in the morning, and North in the evening. You've also answered you're own post by telling us the trains empty at Dunbar and in Northumberland.
The "2000 ex EDB" also doesn't exist. At present the departures from Waverly are 1835, 1900 and 2100. The 1835 terminates at Newcastle connecting with a service to London. The 1900 carries on for London and the 2100 goes to York. From May this becomes the 1830 to London and the 2100 to Leeds. Inbetween these there is an additional service from Newcastle arriving into London at 0059.
Edinburgh's link to Southern Scotland is being addressed by the Scottish Government scheme in re-opening the Borders rail line.
East Coast's only stop in Scotland after Edinburgh is Dunbar. Unless Berwick is now part of Scotland?
I'm also not sure why it's also an "impediment to the economies of those areas" because.... well what economy exactly is there after 9pm at night other than takeaways, bars and taxi's?
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
My apologies - that was a typo, I was referring to the 21:00. As you surely realise, it is frequently very well laden leaving Waverley.
There is no service leaving for 2 hours before 21:00 and nothing afterwards until the next morning.
A silly typo but as its the ONLY evening service I'm sure you know what I was referring to.
Berwick is interesting in that it does 'look to Edinburgh' as its social and economic centre. Unlike communities further south in Northumberland which clearly view Tyneside as the focus for their social and economic activity.
My reference to the economics of the borders is a little more than the opinion of 'an armchair expert'! There would be few in the Scottish Executive who'd deny that the country's impressive expenditure on urban and rural regeneration has omitted the Borders Regions (incl Dumfries & Galloway). Not having any need to drag this thread too much off-topic, I just can't allow discussions of rail services to pass purely referring to profitable services and without any reference to the social and economic impact of public transport, and crucially, to its potential for regional regeneration. (Its not as if I'm advocating a diversion to Haddington or station at Reston - those WOULD require some persuasive evidence!).
Anyway, can't stop. I have to rush back to my armchair.
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You mean only hourly. Northbound, in the 8 hours between 0700 and 1500 on Saturday, there are currently no fewer than 15 through trains between Peterborough and Edinburgh.
tbtc
Veteran Member
I could see the logic in a ScotRail EMU running a late service from Edinburgh to Newcastle, to connect with London trains. I could also see the logic in a TPE 185 running to Edinburgh late on for similar connections. Both may be more economical than a nine coach train, and be able to cope with the level of demand which I feel exists.
However, I don't think that the ECML (north of Newcastle) has sufficient capacity for any "slow" Newcastle - Edinburgh services during the daytime. There's not always sufficient loops to allow the three trains on most daytime hours to get to/from Edinburgh without catching up with freight services/ stoppers west of Drem. Adding in an additional service to deal with Dunbar/ Berwick/ Alnmouth would speed the "fast" trains up, but I can't see space in the timetable for it to fit (especially as the East Coast/ XC services are sometimes late, meaning a "stopper" timed to leave Newcastle a few minutes after a northbound "fast" might end up obstructing a late running "fast" with nowhere easy to overtake.
However, I don't think that the ECML (north of Newcastle) has sufficient capacity for any "slow" Newcastle - Edinburgh services during the daytime. There's not always sufficient loops to allow the three trains on most daytime hours to get to/from Edinburgh without catching up with freight services/ stoppers west of Drem. Adding in an additional service to deal with Dunbar/ Berwick/ Alnmouth would speed the "fast" trains up, but I can't see space in the timetable for it to fit (especially as the East Coast/ XC services are sometimes late, meaning a "stopper" timed to leave Newcastle a few minutes after a northbound "fast" might end up obstructing a late running "fast" with nowhere easy to overtake.
Failed Unit
Established Member
You can hardly moan you only have an hourly service. The majority of the people on the train will be happy with the improvement in journey time as the don't need to stop at Peterborough and Doncaster. Both busy stations but an hourly service will cope with that demand.
Johnny Lewis
Member
I'm disappointed that London - Leeds is still only hourly for most of Saturday. Compare this with the London service on other similar Inter-city routes, where there are 2 tph to Nottingham, Derby, Sheffield, Bristol, Cardiff etc. and 3 tph to Birmingham and Manchester for the whole of Saturday and most of Sunday.
So it's a pity that Leeds can't be 2 tph for the whole of Saturday, which would have made a nice virtual EWD timetable; so much easier for passengers to understand!
So it's a pity that Leeds can't be 2 tph for the whole of Saturday, which would have made a nice virtual EWD timetable; so much easier for passengers to understand!
TomJ93
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Brum to Manc 3tph? News to me.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
All very true, throughout most of the day.
That is the hazard when running high speed, long distance, high capacity services through any long rural area.
But my winge was directed at the 2 hour gap after 7pm during which time no passenger services travel from Edinburgh to Berwick (or beyond) and that gap is followed by just one service at 9pm.
That doesn't provide much opportunity to delay anything! There's nothing to delay!
So the question remains just one of demand, which as silentone has indicated begins to evaporate after Dunbar, or a political will to assist the region's regeneration by providing a rail service after 7pm that consists of more than just one train; that has been and remains my argument.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Dave, I wasn't meaning to sound like I was arguing about the two hour gap in the evening, sorry, just making a general point about the daytime.
A FSR EMU leaving Edinburgh just before 20.00 should fill your gap and connect at Newcastle with the 21.33 TPE service for Manchester Airport (via York, Leeds etc). The FST EMU could then connect with the 18.19 ex Kings Cross which arrives in Newcastle at 21.27 to provide a northbound service from Newcastle. This would give a marginally later London - Edinburgh service on Monday to Thursday (all of this is based on the current timetable, I don't want to comment on the new timetable until I'm sure of everything being on it)
The marginal costs of running an EMU should be lower, which could make this more feasible (bearing in mind it'd be under half the length of the 225s. If it works then potentially consider running some of these as "through" services instead.
As an alternative, if TPE extended their last Manchester Airport- Newcastle service of the day to Edinburgh, it'd connect with the 21.00 ex Kings Cross (arrives in Newcastle at 00.41, compared to the TPE which arrives at 00.56), so would provide a much later London - Edinburgh train. A 185 should cope with that no bother, and then run an early return to Newcastle/ Manchester Airport the following day.
dk1
Veteran Member
From Euston (VHF) not between the two.
i agree with this as i have travelled in both standard and first on this service, however first class is usually mostly empty
Damien1986
Member
Will the 1742 Scotrail service from Edinburgh to Motherwell brought in to replace the East Coast departure at 1739 call at Carstairs,Carluke,Wishaw,Shieldmuir and Motherwell?
brompton rail
Member
17.42 and 18.25 Scotrail services call at Carstairs and Motherwell, can't comment on the other stops but they can all be checked by going to XC's journey planner, putting in the Edinburgh departure and which destination you want, changing date to 23 May and time to 17.42 or 18.25 and "find journey"!
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David Dunning
Member
Is the new newcastle express now the longest non stop run in the UK ? and is York now the longest most frequent non stop service ?
MCR247
Established Member
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But it only will be for about 18 months if the ICWC planned TT goes a head and the xx30 are first stop Preston?
MCR247
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But it will surely be the longest most frequent non stop service?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Such a shame they couldn't alternate the xx30s between Grantham and Newark :x
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Such a shame they couldn't alternate the xx30s between Grantham and Newark :x
I've had a wee look for you. Unfortunately, the CrossCountry planner doesn't let you see calling points, so you've got to do it the long way.
I believe the 17:42 will run non-stop from Haymarket to Carstairs, Carluke, Wishaw, Motherwell, and I think then non-stop to Glasgow Central arriving at 18:53. This arrival time will let people get out to stations from Glasgow Central without the need to cross the city, so it could veen be a well used end-end service despite the 1h11 journey time.
Interestingly, it's selling FC tickets for this service, but isn't for the later 18:25 service (which will probably be 322/380 operated as its coming from North Berwick). That would imply that the new service is DMU operated, or it could just be an error.
Failed Unit
Established Member
I agree, they maybe should have gone Grantham / Newark alternate for the Newcastle / Leeds services.
The problem I could see however is the Leeds services catching up with the Newcastle service.
At the moment
0030 Peterborough, Newark, Doncaster
0033 (35?) Stevenage, Grantham, Doncaster
So they should keep at least 3 minutes between them
However if you had
0030 Peterborough, Grantham, Doncaster
0033 Stevenage, Newark, Doncaster
I suspect the 0033 would need to stop outside Grantham while the 0030 made its call.
Unless some of the 0030s also called at Stevenage. They're grumbling because they have lost all their through trains to Scotland.
gordonthemoron
Established Member
dunno if anyone has posted this, but Here is the new timetable
YorkshireRider
Member
Indeed, ive also heard this, the very end toilet in coach M i believe?
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