East Midlands Franchise 2019-

[yorksrob]

Because the DfT told Northern to operate DCO services.

I don't see why you get that impression, it's got nothing to do with franchise renewals, and everything to do with big dinosaur trade unions that resist change!

Because we never had any of this bother until the contract changed and DCO was stipulated - and for what possible benefit that justifies such upheaval.

No wonder passengers in other areas don't want the bother.

 

[Robertj21a]

Whilst that’s partly true, I assume you don’t have sick or holiday pay? Work 6 1/2 days a week for less than minimum wage? 18hr days? Because that’s how your employer wants you to work?

No, what I said is wholly true, not partly.

 

[Carlisle]

Go down your town centre this evening and ask the rough sleepers how well they’re being served by the government.

Sadly it’s likley around 95% of rough sleepers globally probably support such claims, no easy solution there

 

[edwin_m]

Without getting into the rights and wrongs of DOO, I'd suggest that Northern has a lot of busy suburban routes with frequent stops where the conductor can't get through the train between stations. East Midlands has far fewer, probably only the Robin Hood and Ivanhoe lines plus indivdual station pairs on longer journeys such as Beeston to Nottingham.

 

[LowLevel]

Without getting into the rights and wrongs of DOO, I'd suggest that Northern has a lot of busy suburban routes with frequent stops where the conductor can't get through the train between stations. East Midlands has far fewer, probably only the Robin Hood and Ivanhoe lines plus indivdual station pairs on longer journeys such as Beeston to Nottingham.

Robin Hood and Ivanhoe lines are nowhere near as problematic. They're both relatively easy to deal with, most of the time. The main problem is Saturday Robin Hoods where the trains are so full with 2 cars the guard often can't get through after Kirkby. This is mitigated to a degree by security and BTP staff on the door bouncing anyone without tickets on their return journey thus the majority of revenue is collected with perhaps a small loss in single tickets bought rather than return. Both routes were pay trains for over 20 years until TVMs (which are unreliable) were brought in so the guards and revenue staff are pretty savvy.

 

[Jozhua]

Because we never had any of this bother until the contract changed and DCO was stipulated - and for what possible benefit that justifies such upheaval.

No wonder passengers in other areas don't want the bother.

Completely agreed, as a user of both Northern and East Midlands Trains, I frequently feel like I'm going from a 3rd world country to a 1st world country with all the cancellations, dirty trains and pacers!

Stagecoach have done a fantastic job of running the EMT franchise, especially considering the difficulties with their Pacer fleets in the early days and deserve to keep their contract because of it.

I hope the DaFT considers all of the bidders operating history before awarding the new contract but the clue is in their name!

 

[Jozhua]

Completely agreed, as a user of both Northern and East Midlands Trains, I frequently feel like I'm going from a 3rd world country to a 1st world country with all the cancellations, dirty trains and pacers!

Stagecoach have done a fantastic job of running the EMT franchise, especially considering the difficulties with their Pacer fleets in the early days and deserve to keep their contract because of it.

I hope the DaFT considers all of the bidders operating history before awarding the new contract but the clue is in their name!

Correction *Sprinter fleets

 

[LowLevel]

Completely agreed, as a user of both Northern and East Midlands Trains, I frequently feel like I'm going from a 3rd world country to a 1st world country with all the cancellations, dirty trains and pacers!

Stagecoach have done a fantastic job of running the EMT franchise, especially considering the difficulties with their Pacer fleets in the early days and deserve to keep their contract because of it.

I hope the DaFT considers all of the bidders operating history before awarding the new contract but the clue is in their name!

On the ground we like to think we do a good job despite the challenges of a limited and aging fleet. Even the ITT says as such. I'd like to think a fight with the staff wouldn't be picked as part of the new franchise but experience suggests the Department for Transport cares not a fig for the impact on rail services so I would never say never.

 

[Jozhua]

On the ground we like to think we do a good job despite the challenges of a limited and aging fleet. Even the ITT says as such. I'd like to think a fight with the staff wouldn't be picked as part of the new franchise but experience suggests the Department for Transport cares not a fig for the impact on rail services so I would never say never.

Do you work for East Midlands Trains? I know someone who worked in accounts for some time, however it's interesting to hear things from the perspective of the staff on the ground!
I used to use the train 6/7 days a week for 1/2 years when I commuted into Derby and at the time I thought the service was okay, however after using Northern rail probably 2 times a week after moving up to the Greater Manchester area, I realise how good East Midlands Trains is! The same trains on East Midlands are cleaner and more pleasant than Northern and the service is much more reliable, so I'd definitely say you do a fantastic job!

 

[yorksrob]

Completely agreed, as a user of both Northern and East Midlands Trains, I frequently feel like I'm going from a 3rd world country to a 1st world country with all the cancellations, dirty trains and pacers!

Stagecoach have done a fantastic job of running the EMT franchise, especially considering the difficulties with their Pacer fleets in the early days and deserve to keep their contract because of it.

I hope the DaFT considers all of the bidders operating history before awarding the new contract but the clue is in their name!

Correction *Sprinter fleets

Yes, they're generally the best TOC to travel with in these parts. The trains tend to be reliable and well furnished for their purpose.

 

[Killingworth]

Yes, they're generally the best TOC to travel with in these parts. The trains tend to be reliable and well furnished for their purpose.

I'd confirm that. An East Midlands 158 is a world apart from one operated by Northern. Somehow the first impression is smarter before entering the carriage and it continues inside.

 

[Qwerty133]

Completely agreed, as a user of both Northern and East Midlands Trains, I frequently feel like I'm going from a 3rd world country to a 1st world country with all the cancellations, dirty trains and pacers!

Stagecoach have done a fantastic job of running the EMT franchise, especially considering the difficulties with their Pacer fleets in the early days and deserve to keep their contract because of it.

I hope the DaFT considers all of the bidders operating history before awarding the new contract but the clue is in their name!

While there is very little negative to say about the vast majority of the front line staff, especially on the local side, I really don't think the same could be said for much of the management team. Rosters of some grades of station staff seem to be in such a mess that some stations in a common pool end up with more staff than they can realistically use while others end up with none meaning regular ticket office closures which are not really necessary. Maintenance work at stations is not completed in a timely manner and non urgent jobs are often done at inappropriate times. Some front line staff are not provided with the equipment needed to do their jobs (for a long time the barrier staff had no way to sell tickets to anyone arriving without one (not that half of them bother when they are able)). EMT management have also failed to ensure staff are appropriately trained in ticketing matters leading to some having next to no knowledge on ticket validity either geographically or based on ticket type. They have also continued to persevere with using rail gourmet for on train catering despite it long being apparent that RG are not willing or able to provide a reliable service. Additionally EMT seem to give up at maintaining any normality north of Leicester during the slightest of engineering works south thereof meaning Sunday timetables are unnecessarily inconsistent and next to no use for many passengers.

 

[yorksrob]

I'd confirm that. An East Midlands 158 is a world apart from one operated by Northern. Somehow the first impression is smarter before entering the carriage and it continues inside.

And most importantly, they're usually four carriages long (apart from a wobbly period about a year ago).

 

[bunnahabhain]

And most importantly, they're usually four carriages long (apart from a wobbly period about a year ago).

The four additional Class 153s have had a positive effect really, there's still the odd hiccough but it is rather unusual now.

 

[Jozhua]

The four additional Class 153s have had a positive effect really, there's still the odd hiccough but it is rather unusual now.

Yes, I've actually ridden on them a couple of times in the last week! They're being attached to trains that would have otherwise been a 1 carriage formation to get a 2 carriage train.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Yes, I've actually ridden on them a couple of times in the last week! They're being attached to trains that would have otherwise been a 1 carriage formation to get a 2 carriage train.

That is the ultimate plan, I don't believe anything has been strengthened on a long term planning basis yet, as we're still 4 vehicles short thanks to the PRM mods being carried out on the 156/158 fleet, but hopefully come December we'll be 4 cars up.

 

[NoOnesFool]

They have also continued to persevere with using rail gourmet for on train catering despite it long being apparent that RG are not willing or able to provide a reliable service. [/QUOTE] A lot of hard work goes on behind the scenes to ensure that all trains are covered. Issues like staff sickness or staff being displaced during disruption are issues outside of RG's control and would be just the same if the service was run by another company or even EMT themselves, who have coincidentally been suffering from absent First Class Hosts recently (who are directly employed by them).

 

[Qwerty133]

A lot of hard work goes on behind the scenes to ensure that all trains are covered. Issues like staff sickness or staff being displaced during disruption are issues outside of RG's control and would be just the same if the service was run by another company or even EMT themselves, who have coincidentally been suffering from absent First Class Hosts recently (who are directly employed by them).

The common sense solution is a common pool of people who can act as both first class hosts and standard class retailers as in many cases there would be enough cover within the on-train team to cover a single member of staff being absent (many trains have multiple first class hosts).

 

[yorksrob]

The four additional Class 153s have had a positive effect really, there's still the odd hiccough but it is rather unusual now.

Oh undoubtedly.

Having a 153 turn up attached to a 2 carriage 158 has been a massive improvement compared to a 158 on its own.

 

[Killingworth]

Oh undoubtedly.

Having a 153 turn up attached to a 2 carriage 158 has been a massive improvement compared to a 158 on its own.

And although a 153 attached to a 158 is less comfortable than a 3 car TPE 185 at least you've more chance of a standard class seat.

 

[LowLevel]

A lot of hard work goes on behind the scenes to ensure that all trains are covered. Issues like staff sickness or staff being displaced during disruption are issues outside of RG's control and would be just the same if the service was run by another company or even EMT themselves, who have coincidentally been suffering from absent First Class Hosts recently (who are directly employed by them).

If RG looked after their staff maybe they would have fewer issues. It's not a surprise morale is in the pits and people don't bother turning up for work when someone doing the same job effectively for EMT as a first class host will be paid a much better wage with many more benefits. They employ some absolutely brilliant people who are massively under appreciated. Staff not turning up on a Sunday or diagrams being totally uncovered is not helpful (but then neither is recovering losses from your employees wage in terms of maintaining morale).

 

[yorksrob]

And although a 153 attached to a 158 is less comfortable than a 3 car TPE 185 at least you've more chance of a standard class seat.

Indeed, given how busy some of those services get.

 

[CdBrux]

I want a well staffed, safe and reliable railway that offers a decent service to the passengers that I interact with every day, as does my union.

The government wants to run the railway as cheaply as possible.

Which do you think you have more in common with?

(P.S., although it must’ve been stated hundreds of times on here by now, the guards’ role involves far more than just opening doors...)

I want a safe, reliable, good service at a decent price.
The definition of reliable and good and a decent price is for the passenger to determine and also measure if they believe they get it. There is also a part to be paid by the taxpayer who by and large subsidises the railway.
The definition of safe and evaluation that the railway is operated safely to those definitions should be for a body independent of either government or unions to determine.
I travel to and from work every day on a Driver only train.

 

[The Ham]

I want a safe, reliable, good service at a decent price.
The definition of reliable and good and a decent price is for the passenger to determine and also measure if they believe they get it. There is also a part to be paid by the taxpayer who by and large subsidises the railway.
The definition of safe and evaluation that the railway is operated safely to those definitions should be for a body independent of either government or unions to determine.
I travel to and from work every day on a Driver only train.

Although the total amount of subsidy for the railways after you deduct HS2 and Enhancements to the existing network totals about £250 million.

 

[Jozhua]

I want a safe, reliable, good service at a decent price.
The definition of reliable and good and a decent price is for the passenger to determine and also measure if they believe they get it. There is also a part to be paid by the taxpayer who by and large subsidises the railway.
The definition of safe and evaluation that the railway is operated safely to those definitions should be for a body independent of either government or unions to determine.
I travel to and from work every day on a Driver only train.

I believe there was an independent study done that concluded that DOO trains are perfectly safe for passengers. While I agree that Northern should keep guards on the train, these endless strikes with no attempt at reaching a resolution have really eroded my respect for RMTs position.

 

[yorkie]

The original topic appears to have run its course; please use an alternative thread if you wish to discuss anything else.