East West Rail: Bedford - Cambridge will it ever get built?

[daodao]

The new business secretary (and former transport secretary) has indicated that various infrastructure projects are under review due to the need to cut back on expenditure.

... the new Business Secretary Grant Shapps gave the clearest indication yet that recent commitments by former Prime Minister Liz Truss were very likely to be scaled back.

Sizewell C: Government denies new nuclear plant under review

A government official had told the BBC that every major project was under review.

www.bbc.co.uk

The article focusses on the proposed new Sizewell C nuclear plant, but also mentions cutting back the Northern Powerhouse Rail proposals. Given Grant Shapps' known views about East-West Rail, could this also be a target for cut-backs? The article indicates that the part of HS2 that is already under construction would proceed, but doesn't mention the proposed HS2 extension north of Crewe (which personally I hope is scrapped).

 

[Magdalia]

The new business secretary (and former transport secretary) has indicated that various infrastructure projects are under review due to the need to cut back on expenditure.

Sizewell C: Government denies new nuclear plant under review

A government official had told the BBC that every major project was under review.

www.bbc.co.uk

The article focusses on the proposed new Sizewell C nuclear plant, but also mentions cutting back the Northern Powerhouse Rail proposals. Given Grant Shapps' known views about East-West Rail, could this also be a target for cut-backs? The article indicates that the part of HS2 that is already under construction would proceed, but doesn't mention the proposed HS2 extension north of Crewe (which personally I hope is scrapped).

I didn't hear the Shapps interview, but I've been following the news coverage on the radio. This is just the beginning of a lot of "news management" ahead of the 17 November economic statement.

I'm expecting lots more between now and then especially in the Sunday papers and politics talk shows on Sundays 6 and 13 November.

 

[TheBigD]

Across from the current island platform, would still allow a single through platform and the current underpass could be extended to the new platform.

That's where the current (heavily utilised) freight loop is and where another one is proposed as part of the Ely area works that are currently in limbo. See previous posts by Bald Rick for the importance of freight in the Ely scheme.

 

[Dunnyrail]

St Neots has lots of houses in Longsands, Eynesbury, Eaton Ford and Eaton Socon. The last two of those are between the river and the A1.

Housing is being built west of the A1 too, see Dennybrook Garden Village near the Black Cat roundabout.

The station is only relevant for Love's Farm and Wintringham.

Trust me Longsands, Eynesbury are very relevant to the station as is the Kings Road, East Street and Avenue Road area. Just look at the prices due to being around 10 minutes walk from the Station. Some parts of Winteringham when completed will be almost if not further away.

 

[30907]

EWR stays according to the Autumn Statement

 

[Brubulus]

That's where the current (heavily utilised) freight loop is and where another one is proposed as part of the Ely area works that are currently in limbo. See previous posts by Bald Rick for the importance of freight in the Ely scheme.

I've seen that however the freight loop is double track even though the bridge is single track, meaning that freight capacity is already limited by the bridge. The main reason for the extra platform would be to allow a timetable recast that allows more time for freight to pass between passenger services, and the platform allowing passenger services to increase.

 

[zwk500]

I've seen that however the freight loop is double track even though the bridge is single track, meaning that freight capacity is already limited by the bridge. The main reason for the extra platform would be to allow a timetable recast that allows more time for freight to pass between passenger services, and the platform allowing passenger services to increase.

If you take out the goods loop at Ely for passenger use then you'll need to provide another loop somewhere in the Ely area. Could be further towards March, could be on the start of the Soham single line, but recast or not freight needs to be able to be recessed near Ely. The loop in it's current position can be used by all traffic at Ely, making it extremely handy for both timetabling and recovering disruption. Move it towards March and the King's Lynn train can't use the loop, move it towards Soham and traffic to/from Cambridge can't use it. So it comes down to a question of cost and value.

 

[BrianW]

EWR stays according to the Autumn Statement

Does that indicate anything about when? Easy to 'support' EWR while slowing its delivery.

From the Autumn Statement November 2022 document:

3.18 The Autumn Statement recommits to the government’s transformative growth plans for
our railways. These include East West Rail, core Northern Powerhouse Rail, and High Speed 2
to Manchester. These will provide fast, more reliable services and connect people to new job
opportunities.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1118417/CCS1022065440-001_SECURE_HMT_Autumn_Statement_November_2022_Web_accessible__1_.pdf

 

[William3000]

There are two new proposed stations on the Bedford to Cambridge section of East/West Rail (in addition to Cambridge South), and so far little detail about them as far as I can ascertain.

Assuming Cambourne station is to the north of the town, I assume it will have a fair amount of car and cycle parking as well as a bus interchange. I presume also two platforms but wonder whether there would be some loops to allow freight or faster trains to pass though I presume most trains would stop at Cambourne though I’m not sure how many are proposed through this section - I think it’s 6 which seems excessive for a town like Cambourne.

Turning to Tempsford/St Neots I had originally seen somewhere that East West Rail connectivity here would allow connectivity to Leeds and Edinburgh but that seems unlikely that LNER trains would stop here. It’s likely to be a station connected to a new town in this location and could provide St Neots with a much needed new rail link to Cambridge. So question is would this have 4 platforms: 2 on EWR; and 2 on ECML or 6 with 4 on the ECML. And will there be any connection between the lines for onward connections without changes - given grade separation this could end up being an enormous land-hungry junction so seems unlikely. It seems probable that the Thameslink Peterborough to Horsham trains would stop here but unlikely for any others - perhaps the London to Lincoln (but even that seems unlikely as it doesn’t really give the area the key northern connection that would be most valuable and would still likely involve a change at Peterborough which a Thameslink train could provide. But only two north-south trains also seems like a bit of a missed opportunity for connectivity but equally another long-distance inter-city stop between Stevenage and Peterborough seems unlikely.

 

[frediculous]

I reckon there would be 4 platforms on the ECML in case the slows are shut for engineering work or other diversions. I also imagine the peak time Great Northern Kings Cross - Peterborough services would also stop there

 

[William3000]

I agree with that - though Huntingdon only has platforms on the slow - as does Sandy. So unless Tempsford/St Neots South is intended to have many long distance services it seems unnecessary.

 

[tspaul26]

Assuming Cambourne station is to the north of the town, I assume it will have a fair amount of car and cycle parking as well as a bus interchange.

Parking, probably - full bus interchange, probably not.

I presume also two platforms

Yes

but wonder whether there would be some loops to allow freight or faster trains to pass

Highly unlikely

though I presume most trains would stop at Cambourne

Yes

though I’m not sure how many are proposed through this section - I think it’s 6 which seems excessive for a town like Cambourne.

4tph in each direction

Turning to Tempsford/St Neots I had originally seen somewhere that East West Rail connectivity here would allow connectivity to Leeds and Edinburgh

Where did you see this? I’m not aware of any such commitment or proposal.

but that seems unlikely that LNER trains would stop here.

Correct

It’s likely to be a station connected to a new town in this location and could provide St Neots with a much needed new rail link to Cambridge.

Yes, the ability to unlock new development is a key factor in the optioneering.

So question is would this have 4 platforms: 2 on EWR; and 2 on ECML or 6 with 4 on the ECML.

Likely to be two EWR platforms in the first instance with passive provision for four ECML platforms.

And will there be any connection between the lines for onward connections without changes - given grade separation this could end up being an enormous land-hungry junction so seems unlikely.

No connection is proposed.

It seems probable that the Thameslink Peterborough to Horsham trains would stop here but unlikely for any others - perhaps the London to Lincoln (but even that seems unlikely as it doesn’t really give the area the key northern connection that would be most valuable and would still likely involve a change at Peterborough which a Thameslink train could provide.

Likely to be Thameslink only for the foreseeable future, but if a new town is built out then perhaps longer distance services if there is a future major timetable rewrite on the ECML.

But only two north-south trains also seems like a bit of a missed opportunity for connectivity but equally another long-distance inter-city stop between Stevenage and Peterborough seems unlikely.

Two N-S trains are a missed opportunity, but six E-W trains are excessive? Which is it?

 

[30907]

"Connectivity to Leeds and Edinburgh" can be achieved by changing en route - the phrasing was no doubt carefully chosen

 

[D365]

Parking, probably - full bus interchange, probably not.

Yes

Highly unlikely

Yes

4tph in each direction

Where did you see this? I’m not aware of any such commitment or proposal.

Correct

Yes, the ability to unlock new development is a key factor in the optioneering.

Likely to be two EWR platforms in the first instance with passive provision for four ECML platforms.

No connection is proposed.


Likely to be Thameslink only for the foreseeable future, but if a new town is built out then perhaps longer distance services if there is a future major timetable rewrite on the ECML.



Two N-S trains are a missed opportunity, but six E-W trains are excessive? Which is it?

Concur with all points above.

 

[William3000]

Parking, probably - full bus interchange, probably not.

Yes

Highly unlikely

Yes

4tph in each direction

Where did you see this? I’m not aware of any such commitment or proposal.

Correct

Yes, the ability to unlock new development is a key factor in the optioneering.

Likely to be two EWR platforms in the first instance with passive provision for four ECML platforms.

No connection is proposed.


Likely to be Thameslink only for the foreseeable future, but if a new town is built out then perhaps longer distance services if there is a future major timetable rewrite on the ECML.



Two N-S trains are a missed opportunity, but six E-W trains are excessive? Which is it?

Sorry my point was that 6 east west trains at Cambourne seems excessive but not at Tempsford. Just comparing Cambourne to other towns around Cambridge which have Royston (4 per hour), Newmarket (1 per hour), Audley End (3 per hour), Ely (3 per hour). I was focusing on the interchange role of Tempsford.

 

[NSE]

I agree with that - though Huntingdon only has platforms on the slow - as does Sandy. So unless Tempsford/St Neots South is intended to have many long distance services it seems unnecessary.

Not really. Biggleswade and St Neots have fast line platforms. I used platform 3 from the latter this morning. Plenty of examples of fast lines having little used platforms on lines like this, it’s useful for contingency/engineering works etc.

 

[Steve Harris]

I reckon there would be 4 platforms on the ECML in case the slows are shut for engineering work or other diversions. I also imagine the peak time Great Northern Kings Cross - Peterborough services would also stop there

I think you may be wide of the mark there. The EWR consolation documents don't even guarantee ANY platforms on the ECML. Bearing in mind it's a consultation, that may change of course, but I doubt if you'll see more than platforms on the slows.

There is a another thread on this forum about E-W rail (see below), with what is planned etc, perhaps these questions would be best asked on that thread ? The answers might even already be in that thread too.

Not really. Biggleswade and St Neots have fast line platforms. I used platform 3 from the latter this morning. Plenty of examples of fast lines having little used platforms on lines like this, it’s useful for contingency/engineering works etc.

That's by history rather than modern day design though.

Edit : Try https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/east-west-rail-ewr-consultation-updates-not-speculation.99892/page-186#post-5982742

 

[EllieAquitrain]

Absolute pie-in-the-sky, but if money were no object would it improve the rail network to connect EWR in the Cambourne direction to the ECML in the Peterborough direction? This might enable a faster time between Cambridge and Peterborough on the long-distance XC, a new Ipswich—Cambridge—Peterborough—(North) service, and release some pressure on Ely?

 

[A0]

Absolute pie-in-the-sky, but if money were no object would it improve the rail network to connect EWR in the Cambourne direction to the ECML in the Peterborough direction? This might enable a faster time between Cambridge and Peterborough on the long-distance XC, a new Ipswich—Cambridge—Peterborough—(North) service, and release some pressure on Ely?

No - because the EWR services will be sharing the GN route towards Royston before branching off - that doesn't have much capacity now.

Plus, I'd bet that Ely alone will attract more passengers than via Cambourne and Huntingdon. I'm not even convinced it will be quicker.

The fastest Cambridge - Peterboro services are taking 50 mins.

EWR will cross the ECML somewhere between Sandy and St Neots. St Neots - Peterboro is 23 mins, Sandy is 31 mins. Cambridge - St Neots is 20 miles as the crow flies - so at least 15 mins for any sensible EWR route.

 

[cle]

Absolute pie-in-the-sky, but if money were no object would it improve the rail network to connect EWR in the Cambourne direction to the ECML in the Peterborough direction? This might enable a faster time between Cambridge and Peterborough on the long-distance XC, a new Ipswich—Cambridge—Peterborough—(North) service, and release some pressure on Ely?

Supposedly there is no growth/capacity potential between Cambridge and Ipswich.

If you redirected the Birmingham this way, perhaps. But then you are removing services and connectivity inc at Ely itself. The Ipswich-P'boro service (now with Soham to serve) would have to stay too.

I don't think it's a bad idea - and there has always been fantasy of future Cambridge-Leeds or similar, separately to the current XC.

 

[A0]

Supposedly there is no growth/capacity potential between Cambridge and Ipswich.

If you redirected the Birmingham this way, perhaps. But then you are removing services and connectivity inc at Ely itself. The Ipswich-P'boro service (now with Soham to serve) would have to stay too.

I don't think it's a bad idea - and there has always been fantasy of future Cambridge-Leeds or similar, separately to the current XC.

Bit in bold - either way, sending Ipswich - Peterboro services via Cambridge is a longer, slower way than via Ely (and will be after EWR).

 

[70014IronDuke]

Bit in bold - either way, sending Ipswich - Peterboro services via Cambridge is a longer, slower way than via Ely (and will be after EWR).

Vastly slower - and it would involve a reversal. Definitely never going to happen, I sincerely hope!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

In the budget red book today the following statement is made

4.113 East West Rail – The government will provide up to £15 million local capacity funding to support local authorities along the East West Rail route to maximise economic opportunities. The Department for Transport will make a route update announcement in May

 

[Magdalia]

In the budget red book today the following statement is made

And also paragraph 3.98.

3.98 The UK is a world-leader in the life sciences industry, with significant R&D hubs such as Cambridge’s Biomedical Campus. East West Rail – the rail line joining Oxford and Cambridge - will support further growth in life sciences and other high-productivity sectors across the region, connecting businesses and talent. In May, the government will confirm the route for the new Bedford-Cambridge section, and will provide capacity funding to support local authorities to develop their plans for strategic economic growth around new stations.

 

[BrianW]

And also paragraph 3.98.

3.98 The UK is a world-leader in the life sciences industry, with significant R&D hubs such as Cambridge’s Biomedical Campus. East West Rail – the rail line joining Oxford and Cambridge - will support further growth in life sciences and other high-productivity sectors across the region, connecting businesses and talent. In May, the government will confirm the route for the new Bedford-Cambridge section, and will provide capacity funding to support local authorities to develop their plans for strategic economic growth around new stations.

Could be wrong but that sounds quite positive- a route being confirmed 'for the new Bedford- Cambridge section'. Ok it will take time to come to spades in the ground- at least it's not ditched!