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East-West Rail (EWR): will it happen and how should it be done?

JonathanH

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This government does recognise the importance of economic growth in and around Cambridge. Only a few weeks ago Michael Gove made a widely reported speech about this see here:
I'd imagine it could find a way to both recognise the importance of that economic growth and not pay for new rail services though. The EWR route is just one of the axes on which new homes could be concentrated. Michael Gove doesn't hold the purse strings either.

Is it easier to expand St Neots and Cambourne, rather than Royston, March, Brandon, Newmarket, Whittlesford etc and any of the settlements on existing routes?
 
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Trainbike46

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I'd imagine it could find a way to both recognise the importance of that economic growth and not pay for new rail services though. The EWR route is just one of the axes on which new homes could be concentrated. Michael Gove doesn't hold the purse strings either.

Is it easier to expand St Neots and Cambourne, rather than Royston, March, Brandon, Newmarket, Whittlesford etc and any of the settlements on existing routes?
I think it is a case of "all of the above" all of them will need to get expanded. Also, Cambourne is a relatively large place without a rail link so providing it with one is a plus in and of itself
 

MikeWM

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I’m in full support of EWR

...indeed, me too. It is totally ludicrous that there is no way across the country east-west by rail without going as far south as the North London line or as far north as Ely-Peterborough-Leicester. Building EWR in some form or other should be top priority.

It is also very rubbish there is no longer any public transport linking Oxford and Cambridge directly. When I first moved to this part of the world in the mid-90s there were two direct, regular coach services (the X5, and another via the M11 and M25). The latter ended some years ago, and Stagecoach decided during covid to split the X5 at Bedford (and even if you don't mind changing, anyone who has spent any time at Bedford bus station would want to avoid changing there like the plague), so currrently the only sensible option is to travel via London.
 

dk1

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...indeed, me too. It is totally ludicrous that there is no way across the country east-west by rail without going as far south as the North London line or as far north as Ely-Peterborough-Leicester. Building EWR in some form or other should be top priority.

It is also very rubbish there is no longer any public transport linking Oxford and Cambridge directly. When I first moved to this part of the world in the mid-90s there were two direct, regular coach services (the X5, and another via the M11 and M25). The latter ended some years ago, and Stagecoach decided during covid to split the X5 at Bedford (and even if you don't mind changing, anyone who has spent any time at Bedford bus station would want to avoid changing there like the plague), so currrently the only sensible option is to travel via London.

The proposed frequency and timings of the EWR services looked very impressive when I viewed them earlier this year somewhere. Not difficult to see what a massive improvement it would be for so many people.
 

Magdalia

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Is it easier to expand St Neots and Cambourne, rather than Royston, March, Brandon, Newmarket, Whittlesford etc and any of the settlements on existing routes?
Yes.

Royston and Newmarket have very little or no space. Both are hemmed in by hills on the south side and bypasses on the north side. Whittlesford is in a flood plain. Brandon and March are further away.

West of Cambridge is also easier for getting water to the new homes.
 

MikeWM

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Royston and Newmarket have very little or no space. Both are hemmed in by hills on the south side and bypasses on the north side. Whittlesford is in a flood plain. Brandon and March are further away.

Not much further scope for Ely either - bounded by the A10 and the railway, with flood plains to the other side of the railway. There's some scope to build along a little more in the Chettisham direction, but they're already doing a lot of that at the moment (and doing the usual thing of building a load of houses and then expecting the facilities to come along eventually, rather than building the facilities at the same time as the houses. See Cambourne, for example).
 

bspahh

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Not much further scope for Ely either - bounded by the A10 and the railway, with flood plains to the other side of the railway. There's some scope to build along a little more in the Chettisham direction, but they're already doing a lot of that at the moment (and doing the usual thing of building a load of houses and then expecting the facilities to come along eventually, rather than building the facilities at the same time as the houses. See Cambourne, for example).
There is plenty of space to build housing in Ely, that isn't on the flood plain.
Move the Golf club and there would be space for lots of housing, that would be close to the station.1698601506494.pnghttps://maps.app.goo.gl/WrYkuqkdSgLCNGeGA
 

MikeWM

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There is plenty of space to build housing in Ely, that isn't on the flood plain.
Move the Golf club and there would be space for lots of housing, that would be close to the station.https://maps.app.goo.gl/WrYkuqkdSgLCNGeGA

True, but it is sufficiently obvious as a proposal that I've always assumed the option has been looked into already and the golf club won't move, or indeed even allow a path over its land to improve pedestrian/cycle access from/to the area in the south west of the city to go directly to the railway station, which would be very helpful.

The proximity of the station would give quite a premium price to such properties, so if it could be done, it seems it would have been done years ago, as a priority over expanding north and west.

The sort of thing central Government could intervene to push through I suppose, but I suspect it may not be very popular around here. I think it far more likely they'll focus on growing Cambourne, etc., using EWR as an excuse/reason/motivation. *If* it ever gets built.
 

uglymonkey

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Stagecoach will introduce a new bus timetable Tavistock - Plymouth 'to improve punctuality and reliability' from 3rd September i.e. lengthen the journey times even further. The current peak hour buses take a whopping 79 minutes from Tavistock to Royal Parade, Plymouth because of traffic congestion. The only good news is that the Sunday service is improved to half-hourly during the day (currently hourly).

I think that would work. Scan your First Class ticket

And the Bletchley-Bedford section - also has not had physical work start yet. It too must be at risk - the works proposed at Bedford are massive for adding 4 movements an hour at most.

if canned by Tories, after an inevitable redesign and pause, Labour can pickup the shovels whenever they like..
Problem is once things get canned, they stay canned, even with a change of government. - loads of examples historically I'm sure.

I dont know why it dumped all my quotes into my last message. Sorry
 

Nicholas Lewis

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DafT put out a press release for an upgraded road part of MK to Cambridge corridor celebrating spending one billion on ten miles of dual carriageway. Pretty sure EWR can be built for that sort of money/mile as well.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...formation-of-black-cat-to-caxton-gibbet-route

Upgrades to the iconic Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet route on the A428 started today (12 December 2023) following £1 billion of government investment to reduce congestion and improve journey times, boosting economic growth across the region.

The £1 billion transformation will create a new 10-mile dual carriageway and numerous junction improvements, transforming journeys between the A1 Black Cat roundabout in Bedfordshire and A428 Caxton Gibbet roundabout in Cambridgeshire. Walkers, cyclists and horse riders will also enjoy better footpaths and safer crossing points.  

The scheme will help grow the economy across the region and ensure that jobs in Milton Keynes, Cambridge and everywhere in between are far more accessible.
 

Arkeeos

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DafT put out a press release for an upgraded road part of MK to Cambridge corridor celebrating spending one billion on ten miles of dual carriageway. Pretty sure EWR can be built for that sort of money/mile as well.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...formation-of-black-cat-to-caxton-gibbet-route
Its bizarre how much scrutiny rail projects get for their costs, but road projects seem to fly under the radar comparatively speaking, 9bil for the Lower thames crossing, 1.5 bil for the stonehenge tunnel.
 

JamesT

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Its bizarre how much scrutiny rail projects get for their costs, but road projects seem to fly under the radar comparatively speaking, 9bil for the Lower thames crossing, 1.5 bil for the stonehenge tunnel.
No scrutiny for road projects? The Stonehenge road tunnel has had multiple public inquiries and consultations, judicial reviews etc. since it was first proposed in 1995.
 

Magdalia

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Reported earlier on the BBC that the national audit office are now looking into EWR
There is news on the National Audit Office investigation here:


A £7bn new railway needs to be more aligned with planned development in the areas it is serving, the National Audit Office (NAO) has said.
It has raised concerns about East West Rail, between Oxford and Cambridge.
It said government departments needed to work more closely together to make sure the scheme supported new housing and economic growth.
The East West Rail Company said it would work with government to take forward the NAO's recommendations.

DafT put out a press release for an upgraded road part of MK to Cambridge corridor celebrating spending one billion on ten miles of dual carriageway.


And a report on the Black Cat-Caxton Gibbet road is here:


A £950m upgrade of the A428 will make Bedford "the centre of the universe", according to the borough's mayor.
Tom Wootton made the claim at a ground-breaking ceremony at the Black Cat Roundabout in Bedfordshire.
"It puts Bedford in the centre of the universe... the M1, the A1 and the M11, all joined up by a dual carriageway via Bedford," he said.
 

swt_passenger

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Its bizarre how much scrutiny rail projects get for their costs, but road projects seem to fly under the radar comparatively speaking, 9bil for the Lower thames crossing, 1.5 bil for the stonehenge tunnel.
The Black Cat to Cambourne project has had about 8 years to get to this stage. Numerous reviews and objections and court cases. It‘s passed under your radar but it’s definitely not been sneaked in, there’s been loads of public scrutiny
 

snowball

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The Black Cat to Cambourne project has had about 8 years to get to this stage. Numerous reviews and objections and court cases. It‘s passed under your radar but it’s definitely not been sneaked in, there’s been loads of public scrutiny
And it was talked about in various forms for years before that.

I don't think anyone has yet posted a link to the actual NAO/EWR report. It's here:


This report sets out the following:

The changing context for the East West Rail project
DfT’s assessment of the case for investing in the East West Rail project
The arrangements in place to deliver the intended benefits

Our report does not examine progress with delivery of infrastructure on the route or the management of the project by EWR Co. We do not seek to form a value-for-money judgement on the East West Rail project, nor have we have undertaken a detailed assessment of the project’s business case. We conducted our fieldwork in October 2023. We reviewed documents and data held by DfT and DLUHC, and held interviews with officials in DfT, EWR Co, DLUHC and HM Treasury.

Conclusions

East West Rail represents a £6-7 billion investment to support growth in a part of the UK that the government regards as economically important, but it is not yet clear how the benefits of the project will be achieved nor how it aligns to other government plans for growth in the region. As with many transport projects, the rationale for East West Rail does not rest on the strength of the benefit–cost ratio for the project alone – which is poor – but on its wider strategic aim of overcoming constraints to economic growth in the Oxford–Cambridge region.

This rationale has underpinned DfT’s decisions to approve and continue with the project to date. However, achieving the necessary value from the government’s investment in East West Rail will require stronger strategic alignment across government. Improved communication and joint working between central government and local bodies are needed to overcome barriers to progress and achieve the goals of the project over the long term.
 
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gingerheid

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Feels to me like what would support more housebuilding would be if it had more stations?

It's a shame a railway station has become a thing so complicated and expensive that people are reluctant to build them. Obviously I understand the reasons and see the benefits, but I'd prefer a world where EWR was going to have stations for Wintringham, Papworth, Highfields, Hardwick, Comberton & Haslingfield!
 

deltic08

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DafT put out a press release for an upgraded road part of MK to Cambridge corridor celebrating spending one billion on ten miles of dual carriageway. Pretty sure EWR can be built for that sort of money/mile as well.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...formation-of-black-cat-to-caxton-gibbet-route
One £billion for ten miles of road is outrageous. That is nearly 3 times that of building new railways. Is a new road really needed or is it the road lobby at it again? How long will it be before the whole country is covered in tarmac and we won't have to follow roads?
 

daodao

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One £billion for ten miles of road is outrageous. That is nearly 3 times that of building new railways. Is a new road really needed or is it the road lobby at it again? How long will it be before the whole country is covered in tarmac and we won't have to follow roads?
Surely this new road avoids the need to build an entirely new railway from Bedford to Cambridge, and the expenditure required to do construct it? The former United Counties 128 bus service from Bedford to Cambridge (or whatever it is currently numbered) could be accelerated to provide any improved public transport required between these 2 places.
 

jfowkes

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Surely this new road avoids the need to build an entirely new railway from Bedford to Cambridge, and the expenditure required to do construct it? The former United Counties 128 bus service from Bedford to Cambridge (or whatever it is currently numbered) could be accelerated to provide any improved public transport required between these 2 places.
The railway won't just connect Cambridge and Bedford, it connects Cambridge to MK and Oxford.

You'd have to do a lot more road dualling and maybe build a bypass around Milton Keynes to get the same using roads.
 

The Planner

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One £billion for ten miles of road is outrageous. That is nearly 3 times that of building new railways. Is a new road really needed or is it the road lobby at it again? How long will it be before the whole country is covered in tarmac and we won't have to follow roads?
Is it though? The NAO are saying the Bicester to MK section is £1.2 billion, and nothing is being done between Bletchley and MK.
 

Magdalia

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The key point is this quote from the head of the National Audit Office:

"The rationale for East West Rail rests on its wider strategic aims of increasing economic growth in the Oxford to Cambridge region.

“To maximise the economic benefits from its investment in East West Rail, government must ensure stronger strategic alignment between departments and with wider local growth initiatives, so that there is a shared, coherent vision for the future of the region, and the contribution that the East West Rail project will make to it is clear.”

Gareth Davies, head of the NAO

Increasing economic growth is about new businesses, most of which don't exist yet, located in or near Cambridge and Oxford because of synergies with the Universities, which are in the top ten in the world. Two examples of this already happening are ARM and Abcam: increasing economic growth is about more such companies starting up and growing.

The railway won't just connect Cambridge and Bedford, it connects Cambridge to MK and Oxford.
East West Rail is only partly about this. The eastern end of EWR stands or falls on its ability to deliver a workforce for the new businesses in the Cambridge area, so that the economic growth aim is achieved. That means having places for that workforce to live and transport infrastructure that gets them from home to work and back again.

As the NAO report says, that needs "more strategic alignment across government". And it isn't just about building railways and houses, it is also about water. Another report published yesterday highlights this issue:


The East of England faces "projected water shortages of 800 million litres" per day by 2050, according to a group looking at water security.
Water Resources East (WRE) said food safety was at risk unless scarcity issues were tackled.
WRE, set up by Anglian Water, includes various concerned bodies, and has been tasked with creating a "regional water resources plan" for the government.
It called for £15bn to be invested before 2050 to address the issues.
The 800 million litres projection equates to a third of the region's water usage, WRE said.
"Action is needed now, otherwise increasing water scarcity will constrain agricultural production and curtail economic and housing development, as is already the case in parts of Cambridgeshire," it said.
Anglian Water, based in Cambridgeshire, recently warned that rising temperatures, low rainfall and population increase posed a "significant risk" to water supplies.

One £billion for ten miles of road is outrageous. That is nearly 3 times that of building new railways. Is a new road really needed or is it the road lobby at it again?
The A428 Black Cat-Caxton Gibbet road is of no benefit to economic growth in and around Cambridge. Where it does help is improving the link between Milton Keynes/Bedford and Felixstowe, where it is the last remaining bit of single carriageway road.

It doesn't help Cambridge because the local road network in and around the City is already full, and frequently grinds to a halt because of traffic congestion. It doesn't matter how long it takes to get from Bedford to the edge of Cambridge by road because it will still take ages to get from the edge of Cambridge to the final destination. If anything the A428 Black Cat-Caxton Gibbet improvement will make traffic congestion in Cambridge worse not better.


Surely this new road avoids the need to build an entirely new railway from Bedford to Cambridge, and the expenditure required to do construct it? The former United Counties 128 bus service from Bedford to Cambridge (or whatever it is currently numbered) could be accelerated to provide any improved public transport required between these 2 places.

The guided busway has already demonstrated that buses do not work for Cambridge. That's partly due to congestion, and partly due to lack of drivers in a very heated local labour market. There's no point investing in more bus services while Cambridge can't make proper use of the very expensive bit of bus infrastructure that it already has.

On the other hand, the huge growth in rail commuting into Cambridge, most notably on the Fen Line, demonstrates that heavy rail is what is needed to generate economic growth in Cambridge. That will take a further step forward in 2025 when Cambridge South station opens next to the Cambridge Biomedical Campus, with more than 20k jobs already within walking distance of the new station.

The notion that economic growth can be delivered by improving the Bedford-Cambridge bus service shows a complete lack of understanding of the scale of what is happening in Cambridge. I am old enough to have travelled on the old United Counties 128 bus service: it was half a century ago and Cambridge was a very different place. Cambridge needs transport infrastructure that will work in 50 years ahead, not what worked 50 years ago.
 

daodao

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As the NAO report says, that needs "more strategic alignment across government". And it isn't just about building railways and houses, it is also about water. Another report published yesterday highlights this issue:
The water resource issue is a very good reason why development in Cambridgeshire should be choked off. For example, the move of AZ's research facility from Alderley Park, East Cheshire (where water is not an issue) to Cambridge, has only exacerbated the problem. And for your information, East Cheshire is a highly desirable place to live, close to but separate from Manchester; it is not the grimy north.

I am old enough to have travelled on the old United Counties 128 bus service
So have I, to get from Madingley Road to Cambridge station. I do still visit CAmrbdige occasionally, and am aware of its (?over-)development over the last 50 years.
 

bspahh

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The water resource issue is a very good reason why development in Cambridgeshire should be choked off. For example, the move of AZ's research facility from Alderley Park, East Cheshire (where water is not an issue) to Cambridge, has only exacerbated the problem. And for your information, East Cheshire is a highly desirable place to live, close to but separate from Manchester; it is not the grimy north.
Alderley Park is not grimy, but it is damp. Its also isolated from other scientific employers.

For AstraZeneca, without the move to Cambridge, the company headquarters would now be in Sweden. They spent a lot of money, and lost some staff who did not want to move. They did it because it helps them hire good staff. The appeal for the staff is to have a cluster of science jobs, so you have a chance of getting another job without having to move house. This helps if you have a partner who also needs a job in the same field.

The supply of water is a problem that can be fixed with the application of time and money.
 

RT4038

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One £billion for ten miles of road is outrageous. That is nearly 3 times that of building new railways. Is a new road really needed or is it the road lobby at it again? How long will it be before the whole country is covered in tarmac and we won't have to follow roads?
The road network is far more important than the railway. The country is not going to be held to ransom by the rail industry (the 1955 dispute, and subsequent actions have ensured that) . By all means invest in some railways, but the road network must come first.
 

Magdalia

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For example, the move of AZ's research facility from Alderley Park, East Cheshire (where water is not an issue) to Cambridge, has only exacerbated the problem. And for your information, East Cheshire is a highly desirable place to live, close to but separate from Manchester; it is not the grimy north.
That demonstrates my point, and the desirability of East Cheshire as a place to live reinforces it. AZ's research facility needs to be in Cambridge. Alderley Park is not next to one of the top ten Universities in the world, and that's why AZ have moved. For more examples, it is also why Google, Microsoft and Amazon all have a presence in Cambridge.
 

gallafent

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The following two statements seem contradictory:
The eastern end of EWR stands or falls on its ability to deliver a workforce for the new businesses in the Cambridge area, so that the economic growth aim is achieved.

The A428 Black Cat-Caxton Gibbet road is of no benefit to economic growth in and around Cambridge.

It either is, or isn't, important to provide ways for "the Cambridge workforce" to get from wherever they live (west of Cambridge, in this context) into Cambridge to work. If it is, then both EWR Bedford-Cambridge and the Black Cat -> Caxton Gibbet upgrade are important in this context. If not, neither of them is.

It doesn't matter how long it takes to get from Bedford to the edge of Cambridge by road because it will still take ages to get from the edge of Cambridge to the final destination.

... it really does matter, in a fundamental way, since one could (purely hypothetically of course) park (for free) at the Madingley Road Park & Ride, and cycle, scoot, walk, or bus, into the city. It takes about 15 minutes on a bike.
 

Trainbike46

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The following two statements seem contradictory:




It either is, or isn't, important to provide ways for "the Cambridge workforce" to get from wherever they live (west of Cambridge, in this context) into Cambridge to work. If it is, then both EWR Bedford-Cambridge and the Black Cat -> Caxton Gibbet upgrade are important in this context. If not, neither of them is.



... it really does matter, in a fundamental way, since one could (purely hypothetically of course) park (for free) at the Madingley Road Park & Ride, and cycle, scoot, walk, or bus, into the city. It takes about 15 minutes on a bike.
Cambridge city cannot handle more car traffic (there simply is not enough space), and due to a shortage of bus drivers in the area there isn't a realistic prospect of increases in bus services either. That's why a rail connection would enable more people to commute into cambridge, while a relatively short stretch of road upgrade would not.
 

gallafent

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Cambridge city cannot handle more car traffic (there simply is not enough space), and due to a shortage of bus drivers in the area there isn't a realistic prospect of increases in bus services either. That's why a rail connection would enable more people to commute into cambridge, while a relatively short stretch of road upgrade would not.
As somebody that uses the road system between Bedford and Cambridge several times a week, I assure you, it would (will). They won't drive all the way into the city centre (of course), but they will drive either to one of the Park & Rides, or to one or other non-central location, depending on their workplace location. When it costs more than a week's worth of petrol to take the train to cambridge for one day (and takes more than twice as long ...) then no matter how much one might _want_ to use the train, it's not a viable option. To be clear, we need both EWR and the road upgrade.

Edit: re the bus driver question, the new electric P&R buses are not currently full, in my experience, and so no increase in service level (so more drivers) is required to provide for more car-based commuting to the P&Rs. And other options from those sites to one's workplace (bike, VOI scooter, walk, ...) are also available and often superior to using the bus!
 

Trainbike46

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As somebody that uses the road system between Bedford and Cambridge several times a week, I assure you, it would (will). They won't drive all the way into the city centre (of course), but they will drive either to one of the Park & Rides, or to one or other non-central location, depending on their workplace location. When it costs more than a week's worth of petrol to take the train to cambridge for one day (and takes more than twice as long ...) then no matter how much one might _want_ to use the train, it's not a viable option. To be clear, we need both EWR and the road upgrade.
As someone who used to live along madingley road, there really isn't much spare capacity for vehicles to park at most park and rides (definitely not at the Madingley one), and at peak hour the buses along madingley road are essentially stationary due to all the people who do try to drive into the city.

Some of these issues could be resolved, with things like the congestion charge, closing the car parks in the city centre to remove the incentive to drive in, building a busway parallel to Madingley road, etc. Unfortunately, a lot of these solutions have been killed over the last 10 years.

The extra amount of workers that will be needed in Cambridge require an improvement in rail commuting options, such as EWR. EWR would add a much larger capacity than a short stretch of road could possibly do even if the park and rides had large capacity
 

Magdalia

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It either is, or isn't, important to provide ways for "the Cambridge workforce" to get from wherever they live (west of Cambridge, in this context) into Cambridge to work. If it is, then both EWR Bedford-Cambridge and the Black Cat -> Caxton Gibbet upgrade are important in this context. If not, neither of them is.
It isn't contradictory at all, because the big employment hubs are near the railway stations. Heavy rail gets people to and from their workplaces without adding to congestion.

could (purely hypothetically of course) park (for free) at the Madingley Road Park & Ride, and cycle, scoot, walk, or bus, into the city.

They won't drive all the way into the city centre (of course), but they will drive either to one of the Park & Rides, or to one or other non-central location, depending on their workplace location.

re the bus driver question, the new electric P&R buses are not currently full, in my experience, and so no increase in service level (so more drivers) is required to provide for more car-based commuting to the P&Rs. And other options from those sites to one's workplace (bike, VOI scooter, walk, ...) are also available and often superior to using the bus!
The capacity constraint with Park and Ride is the number of car parking spaces, the bus service provision is set to match that. These are as follows:

Trumpington 1600
Babraham Road 1458
Madingley 930
Newmarket Road 873
Milton 792
Total 5653

The main purpose of the Park and Ride is for people getting to and from the old City for retail and hospitality, and it works relatively well. Park and Ride is not for commuting. That's why the Trumpington and Babraham Road Park and Ride bus services don't go onto the Biomedical Campus. Extensive use of the Park and ride sites for commuting would have a direct consequence of forcing more people to try to drive into the old City for retail and hospitality, with more congestion the inevitable result.
 

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