Eastern Scottish - historic fleet discussion

[ChrisPJ]

Mod note:
Discussion was split from this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...midland-bluebird-and-eastern-scottish.237331/

Does anybody know what the maximum size of the original Eastern Scottish fleet ever was, and what the Deans peak vehicle requirement is today?

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Does anybody know what the maximum size of the original Eastern Scottish fleet ever was, and what the Deans peak vehicle requirement is today?

They had a very large fleet in the 70s and 80s and their network stretched from the east end of Glasgow down to Berwick.

My estimation is they had a fleet between 400 and 500 buses from depots in Baillieston, Airdrie, Bathgate, Broxburn, New Street in Edinburgh, Dalkeith, Musselburgh, Galashiels, Hawick and Kelso with some outstations in the Lothians and Borders (someone please correct me if I've missed any).

Their fleet at different times was made up of Leyland PD2s, Bristol Lodekkas, Daimler Fleetlines, Volvo Ailsas, Leyland Olympians, Leyland Leopards and Seddon Pennines. They also had some unusual coaches for Scottish Citylink work including MCW Metroliners.

 

[stevenedin]

They had a very large fleet in the 70s and 80s and their network stretched from the east end of Glasgow down to Berwick.

My estimation is they had a fleet between 400 and 500 buses from depots in Baillieston, Airdrie, Bathgate, Broxburn, New Street in Edinburgh, Dalkeith, Musselburgh, Galashiels, Hawick and Kelso with some outstations in the Lothians and Borders (someone please correct me if I've missed any).

Their fleet at different times was made up of Leyland PD2s, Bristol Lodekkas, Daimler Fleetlines, Volvo Ailsas, Leyland Olympians, Leyland Leopards and Seddon Pennines. They also had some unusual coaches for Scottish Citylink work including MCW Metroliners.

Was Westfield, Edinburgh an outstation?

 

[Baileygirl]

They had a very large fleet in the 70s and 80s and their network stretched from the east end of Glasgow down to Berwick.

My estimation is they had a fleet between 400 and 500 buses from depots in Baillieston, Airdrie, Bathgate, Broxburn, New Street in Edinburgh, Dalkeith, Musselburgh, Galashiels, Hawick and Kelso with some outstations in the Lothians and Borders (someone please correct me if I've missed any).

Their fleet at different times was made up of Leyland PD2s, Bristol Lodekkas, Daimler Fleetlines, Volvo Ailsas, Leyland Olympians, Leyland Leopards and Seddon Pennines. They also had some unusual coaches for Scottish Citylink work including MCW Metroliners.

There was also a garage in Linlithgow . Later there were also garages in Livingston, one at the bus station (original) and one at Centrex

Was Westfield, Edinburgh an outstation?

Westfield garage replaced New Street and the Livingston garages replaced Bathgate and Broxburn.

 

[DunsBus]

There was also a garage in Linlithgow . Later there were also garages in Livingston, one at the bus station (original) and one at Centrex


Westfield garage replaced New Street and the Livingston garages replaced Bathgate and Broxburn.

There were also depots in Berwick, Dunbar and Peebles with outstations at Biggar, Jedburgh and North Berwick. The Biggar outstation closed at deregulation, the ones at Jedburgh and North Berwick transferred to Lowland in 1985 and later became depots in their own right under First.

Dunbar was replaced by Haddington (the ex-Ian Glass premises) in 1992.

Berwick was perhaps the most famous of all of Eastern's depots, being in England and through the wall from United's Berwick depot. It closed in 1995 and from then until 2003 was an outstation of Kelso. Various sites in Berwick were used during this period.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They had a very large fleet in the 70s and 80s and their network stretched from the east end of Glasgow down to Berwick.

My estimation is they had a fleet between 400 and 500 buses from depots in Baillieston, Airdrie, Bathgate, Broxburn, New Street in Edinburgh, Dalkeith, Musselburgh, Galashiels, Hawick and Kelso with some outstations in the Lothians and Borders (someone please correct me if I've missed any).

Their fleet at different times was made up of Leyland PD2s, Bristol Lodekkas, Daimler Fleetlines, Volvo Ailsas, Leyland Olympians, Leyland Leopards and Seddon Pennines. They also had some unusual coaches for Scottish Citylink work including MCW Metroliners.

Suspect it might have been a shade higher.

New Street had an allocation in excess of 100 vehicles IIRC, and Bathgate was a fairly big depot as well. The Borders depots would've been 150-200 vehicles. Airdrie had >50 that transferred to Central, Baillieston had about 40, as did Linlithgow. Add in Dalkeith and Musselburgh and reckon it's probably nearer 600.

 

[Man of Kent]

Suspect it might have been a shade higher.

New Street had an allocation in excess of 100 vehicles IIRC, and Bathgate was a fairly big depot as well. The Borders depots would've been 150-200 vehicles. Airdrie had >50 that transferred to Central, Baillieston had about 40, as did Linlithgow. Add in Dalkeith and Musselburgh and reckon it's probably nearer 600.

In 1984, according to the Capital Transport fleetbook of the time, it had 602.

Eactly half were Seddon Pennines, while 180 were DDs of various sorts (Fleetline, Olympian, Ailsa and the 3 Metroliner coaches). The London fleet, still in Scottish livery at this point, comprised of 10 Leyland Tiger/Duple Dominant III; there were also two Leyland Royal Tiger Doyen in this livery, but I can't recall if these were used on London services (memory says no).

The SBG reorganisation the following year shrunk the fleet to below 400.

 

[JKP]

The Borders and Berwick fleet numbered around 100 pre deregulation if I recall correctly.

There was a Royal Tiger Doyen at Kelso depot at one time but this might have been in Lowland days. This vehicle was in fleet livery.

 

[DunsBus]

The Borders and Berwick fleet numbered around 100 pre deregulation if I recall correctly.

There was a Royal Tiger Doyen at Kelso depot at one time but this might have been in Lowland days. This vehicle was in fleet livery.

Lowland's opening fleet comprised 104 vehicles - 65 Seddon Pennine 7s, 12 Leyland Tigers (one of which had never run for Eastern), 11 Leyland Nationals, 6 Fleetlines, 5 Bedford VAS5s, 3 Olympians and 2 Bedford YRQs.

By deregulation, this had increased slightly.

In-

4 Fleetlines, 1 ex-Strathtay, 3 ex-Fife
4 Seddon Pennine 7s ex-Kelvin
1 Leyland Tiger ex-Western
1 Leyland Olympian ex-Eastern

Out -

The 2 Bedford YRQs. These saw little use with Lowland and were withdrawn and disposed of fairly quickly.

Fleet as at June 1985 - 104
Fleet as at August 1986 - 112

Net increase - 8

 

[ChrisPJ]

In 1984, according to the Capital Transport fleetbook of the time, it had 602.

Eactly half were Seddon Pennines, while 180 were DDs of various sorts (Fleetline, Olympian, Ailsa and the 3 Metroliner coaches). The London fleet, still in Scottish livery at this point, comprised of 10 Leyland Tiger/Duple Dominant III; there were also two Leyland Royal Tiger Doyen in this livery, but I can't recall if these were used on London services (memory says no).

The SBG reorganisation the following year shrunk the fleet to below 400.

Very interesting thanks, was 1984 the high point or would the fleet have been significantly higher in prior decades?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Lowland's opening fleet comprised 104 vehicles - 65 Seddon Pennine 7s, 12 Leyland Tigers (one of which had never run for Eastern), 11 Leyland Nationals, 6 Fleetlines, 5 Bedford VAS5s, 3 Olympians and 2 Bedford YRQs.

By deregulation, this had increased slightly.

In-

4 Fleetlines, 1 ex-Strathtay, 3 ex-Fife
4 Seddon Pennine 7s ex-Kelvin
1 Leyland Tiger ex-Western
1 Leyland Olympian ex-Eastern

Out -

The 2 Bedford YRQs. These saw little use with Lowland and were withdrawn and disposed of fairly quickly.

Fleet as at June 1985 - 104
Fleet as at August 1986 - 112

Net increase - 8

Surprised it was as low as that. I guess that Kelso, Berwick, Dunbar and Hawick must have been c.15 vehicles each or so, with Gala being the "big" depot.

Very interesting thanks, was 1984 the high point or would the fleet have been significantly higher in prior decades?

I'd imagine the 1950s would've been the high point.

 

[Man of Kent]

Very interesting thanks, was 1984 the high point or would the fleet have been significantly higher in prior decades?

I've now located a 1965/66 edition of British Bus Fleets, which has roughly 950 vehicles listed. Depots were the same as the full list quoted earlier, other than that the former Baxter's depot in Airdrie (V for Victoria) was in use, as well as the original depot in Connor Street, Clarkston (if memory serves correctly) which used allocation code H. I think Victoria closed at the end of the 1970s (maybe just the early 1980s), which is also when the Baxter's identity was finally abandoned.

In this publication, Bristols and AECs dominated the fleet. How they arrived at the code A for Bristols and B for AECs was a great source of confusion for a young bus spotter...

 

[DunsBus]

Surprised it was as low as that. I guess that Kelso, Berwick, Dunbar and Hawick must have been c.15 vehicles each or so, with Gala being the "big" depot.

Don't forget Peebles as well.
The Dunbar and Hawick allocations also included their respective outstations at North Berwick and Jedburgh.

Seem to recall that the 1985 reorganisation reduced Eastern's Seddon fleet by just under half: 65 to Lowland, 33 to Central, 26 to Midland and 11 to Kelvin (via Midland).

I've now located a 1965/66 edition of British Bus Fleets, which has roughly 950 vehicles listed. Depots were the same as the full list quoted earlier, other than that the former Baxter's depot in Airdrie (V for Victoria) was in use, as well as the original depot in Connor Street, Clarkston (if memory serves correctly) which used allocation code H. I think Victoria closed at the end of the 1970s (maybe just the early 1980s), which is also when the Baxter's identity was finally abandoned.

In this publication, Bristols and AECs dominated the fleet. How they arrived at the code A for Bristols and B for AECs was a great source of confusion for a young bus spotter...

Leyland was H (HH for double-deckers). The coding was changed in 1984 to the rather more logical L and LL.

When the double-deck Metroliners were delivered in 1984, they were coded XCMM (X - toilet coach, C - Citylink coach, MM - double-deck Metroliner).

 

[Simon75]

How many of their depots/outstations still exist?

 

[Mal]

They had a very large fleet in the 70s and 80s and their network stretched from the east end of Glasgow down to Berwick.

Eastern Scottish operated routes from Edinburgh to Newcastle via Berwick (505, 506 and 507), via Kelso (510 and 516) and via Jedburgh (508, 515, 517 and 520).

 

[DunsBus]

How many of there depots/outstations still exist

I can name four - Galashiels (Borders Buses), Jedburgh (no longer used as a depot but still extant), Musselburgh and North Berwick (both East Coast Buses).

What was Berwick depot is now offices and a car park, whilst retirement flats occupies the site of Kelso depot. In Dalkeith, the Morrisons on Eskbank Road sits where the bus depot there used to be.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

How many of their depots/outstations still exist?

Gala, Musselburgh, North Berwick

 

[90sWereBetter]

Whatever happened to Westfield garage, was it a victim of the First/Lothian bus war in 2001?

 

[stevenedin]

Whatever happened to Westfield garage, was it a victim of the First/Lothian bus war in 2001?

It was demolished and turned into flats.

 

[DunsBus]

Gala, Musselburgh, North Berwick

The Hawick and Jedburgh depot buildings also still exist, though obviously no longer used as such.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Hawick and Jedburgh depot buildings also still exist, though obviously no longer used as such.

If you're including still standing but not in use, then Baillieston is also still extant IIRC.

 

[DunsBus]

If you're including still standing but not in use, then Baillieston is also still extant IIRC.

I did wonder about Baiilieston. I remember it closed a few months before the SBG reorganisation, its allocation going to Midland's Stepps depot which in turn would subsequently pass to Kelvin.

 

[Steve440]

I have a PSV Circle fleet allocation list from 1st January 1976 which makes interesting reading. The fleet consisted of 808 vehicles as follows:

Single-deck
AEC Reliance: 148
Bedford VAM: 40
Bedford YRQ/YRT: 81
Bristol LH: 35
Bristol MW: 6
Bristol RE: 76
Leyland Leopard: 90
Seddon Pennine: 21
Double-deck
Bristol Lodekka: 231
Daimler Fleetline: 80

Depots were (allocation in brackets)

A Edinburgh (266)
B Bathgate (83)
C Baillieston (66)
D Galashiels (24)
E Kelso (16)
F Linlithgow (32)
G Dalkeith (73)
H Airdrie (77)
I Broxburn (38)
J Berwick (12)
K Peebles (12)
L Hawick (19)
S Dunbar (Stark's) (10)
V Airdrie (Baxter's) (44)
W Musselburgh (36)

 

[ChrisPJ]

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing. Had no idea there were so many Bedfords. The Streetlite of its day

 

[DunsBus]

When you look at the depot list you get the impression that Eastern didn't just get carved up in 1985, it got hung, drawn and quartered as well with so many bits of its area transferred to other companies.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

When you look at the depot list you get the impression that Eastern didn't just get carved up in 1985, it got hung, drawn and quartered as well with so many bits of its area transferred to other companies.

Don't know about that. I think Midland was arguably more impacted.

Eastern lost Baillieston and Airdrie but in reality, they were well outside its area and more readily sat with Central probably. They lost the Borders element (why wasn't it Border Scottish rather than Lowland?) and the depot at Linlithgow but those weren't big in terms of vehicles. The majority stayed with Eastern and it was still a strong business.

I've mentioned before that I had relatives in Midlothian and the idea that you'd have madder buses replacing green when I was there in the mid-1980s seemed laughable.

 

[Man of Kent]

When you look at the depot list you get the impression that Eastern didn't just get carved up in 1985, it got hung, drawn and quartered as well with so many bits of its area transferred to other companies.

One of the priniciples of the reorganisation was to realign companies more closely to the Regional Councils of the time.

The disposal of the Strathclyde depots and the Borders depots followed this principle, but in the case of the latter, the resulting company was too small to be stand alone, so had the Dunbar and North Berwick operations added (which is possibly why the company was named Lowland rather than Borders).

It's less clear as to why Linlithgow in Lothian Region was transferred to Midland (although it was right on the edge of the region, with the Bo'ness area moved from West Lothian to Central Region). Midland, having lost its urban Strathclyde depots, gained rural ones from Highland and Western, which at least left Highland with all its bases solely in Highland Region.

Similarly, all of Midland's Tayside depots were transferred to Strathtay, with Northern's from the same region also passing to Strathtay.

The resultant fleet sizes - from the Scottish Bus Group 1986 Official Fleetbook - were Eastern 378 vehicles and Lowland 110 vehicles.

 

[Strathclyder]

Bumping this thread up with a few queries regarding Eastern's DAB Lions, Ailsas and B10M Citybuses: what depots were they initially allocated to and what routes were you guaranteed to see them on from new?

 

[Man of Kent]

Bumping this thread up with a few queries regarding Eastern's DAB Lions, Ailsas and B10M Citybuses: what depots were they initially allocated to and what routes were you guaranteed to see them on from new?

Typically at Musselburgh, usually on the 128/129.

 

[delt1c]

Saw a Lion a few times on the 35