ECML Disruption 04/06/2022

[D1537]

Sadly mental health services are appalling so this sort of issue will only get worse.

Yes, I tried to arrange a CAMHS appointment for a student recently and was told the average wait is now 16 weeks. This isn't - for once - a Tory cuts thing; the funding has been maintained, it's simply the rise in cases since 2020 for obvious reasons.

 

[gazzaa2]

Mental health “care” in this country is absolutely dire. From what I’ve seen there’s very little in the way of help in the majority of cases.

Getting meaningful help for someone proactively is virtually impossible, hence why we see many examples where things have progressed to the cry for help stage.

I have some experience in having attempted to sort something for a relative some time ago, and in all honesty the service was absolutely useless, and quite frankly made things worse not better.

Which is the problem, but incidents such as this on the railway you'd expect to fall into that parameter.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

One of my family was just on heavily delayed Soubhound GN principal stations train that called at WGC and then run fast to Finsbury Park. No problem, you might think, except that pax were ... er ... only advised of this as the train sped through Hatfield (non stopping, obviously), just as it for Potters Bar. An enormous round trip has just ensued to get back to Hatfield! I appreciate that TSGN don't charge extra for this kind of entertainment but surely there are operating policies somewhere that forbid this bizarre practice? Sounds very much like the TOC control not really communicating properly with NR; the train was just as late passing through Hatfield as it was at Royston, where the passenger boarded. So why switch it to 'non-stop' so late in the day that passengers end up stock and overriding. (I expect we will find that 'involuntary overriding' is not a permissable reason for not having a valid ticket from a Penalty Fares point of view...!

 

[Falcon1200]

The distressed person was never in custody and never removed. She went missing and after searching she couldn’t be found, line was reopened briefly but she then made another appearance hence the 2nd block of the line.

Presumably it was not deemed practical or safe to continue running trains through the area at caution, rather than blocking the line ?

One of my family was just on heavily delayed Soubhound GN principal stations train that called at WGC and then run fast to Finsbury Park. No problem, you might think, except that pax were ... er ... only advised of this as the train sped through Hatfield (non stopping, obviously), just as it for Potters Bar.

The Driver must have been told well before Hatfield that the train was to run fast ? I know many frown on the practice but it can be a valid means of restoring a service more quickly (albeit not perhaps in this case !), but the decision must be made and communicated to passengers before the last stop prior to missing stations.

 

[Bayum]

From: Daily Fail

A search for a 'vulnerable' trespasser led to widespread disruption on the rail network yesterday, with more than 20 trains cancelled and 100 others delayed. Services on the East Coast mainline came to an immediate halt when reports emerged of a person on the tracks in Hertfordshire shortly after midday.

The disturbance occurred on one of the busiest days of the year so far - as Liam Gallagher's concert in Knebworth and the Slam Dunk rock festival in Hatfield took place locally - as well as penultimate Platinum Jubilee celebrations.
Officers from British Transport Police conducted a search of the area using a helicopter and dog teams.

The trespasser - who avoided capture for several hours - was eventually discovered hiding in a tree in Potters Bar, Hertfordshire, the BBC reports.
Travellers took to Twitter to voice their frustrations as trains were cancelled, with delays of up to 60 minutes by the time the person was located at 3.42pm
Other rail passengers with tickets to the Platinum Party at the Palace were worried they may miss the event after delays of up to three hours

Great Northern first tweeted about the trespass at 12.26pm and by 1.57pm, trains had restarted with a reduced speed.
But at 2.46pm, the person was again spotted on the tracks and they were not located by emergency services until 3.42pm.

Great Northern, LNER, Grand Central and Thameslink services were all affected.

A Network Rail spokesperson said: 'Services from London King's Cross have been severely disrupted this afternoon owing to a trespass incident in the Potter's Bar area.
'The individual has been safely removed from the railway and services are up and running again, however, passengers should check the status of their journey before travelling as delays are likely to continue through the afternoon.

'Anyone travelling to an event such as Slam Dunk in Hatfield or to Stevenage for Liam Gallagher should be aware that due to the earlier disruption, a significantly disrupted service is expected on Saturday evening with queuing at stations.'

 

[ungreat]

Presumably it was not deemed practical or safe to continue running trains through the area at caution, rather than blocking the line ?



The Driver must have been told well before Hatfield that the train was to run fast ? I know many frown on the practice but it can be a valid means of restoring a service more quickly (albeit not perhaps in this case !), but the decision must be made and communicated to passengers before the last stop prior to missing stations.

We are not told "well before " most of the time I can assure you!

 

[Failed Unit]

Is there any reason on the rails the close the line, but the M25 they just slow the traffic. Granted a car can swerve and stop quicker. But would it be possible to keep the service moving slowly during such incidents. (Saying this as I don’t know how long it would take a train to stop at 30mph if the driver spotted the person in front of them)

I often see on motorways a 50mph speed limit sign with the comment “pedestrains reported“.

 

[Silver Cobra]

We are not told "well before " most of the time I can assure you!

I can definitely believe that. It reminds me of the timetable fiasco in 2018, when I got caught up in a very similar situation. The train pulls into Stevenage with all signs at the station and on board the train indicating it would be stopping at all stations to Peterborough. About 2 minutes after leaving Stevenage the driver makes an announcement that the train would now be running non-stop to Huntingdon, and apologised to all the passengers for this. He sounded very exasperated, so no doubt was only informed himself as we were leaving Stevenage that this was to happen.

Back on topic, I got caught up in this disruption yesterday on my back home from a day in Brighton. I was travelling on the 1443 from Three Bridges (1425 from Horsham), which despite being late on it’s southbound journey was running to time northbound. We get to Blackfriars, where everyone is told to leave the train as it was going out of service due to this disruption. Some tactical use of Cambridge-bound services from Blackfriars thankfully limited my delay to only 30 minutes. Had I waited for the next Peterborough service at Blackfriars, I would have been delayed by at least 90 minutes.

 

[Domh245]

Is there any reason on the rails the close the line, but the M25 they just slow the traffic. Granted a car can swerve and stop quicker. But would it be possible to keep the service moving slowly during such incidents. (Saying this as I don’t know how long it would take a train to stop at 30mph if the driver spotted the person in front of them)

I often see on motorways a 50mph speed limit sign with the comment “pedestrains reported“.

On a motorway, the cars are independently powered, either from battery or internal combustion therefore the 'only' danger they pose to someone who's trespassing/where they shouldn't is from impact. On a railway (and particularly in this case) the 25,000 volts strung a few metres above the track poses just as high a risk to a trespasser as the trains themselves. No electricity, no movement (at least with the GN EMUs, which in turn stop the LNER bi-modes!)

 

[skyhigh]

Is there any reason on the rails the close the line, but the M25 they just slow the traffic.

An example, though not the M25:

Police close M56 over man on bridge's safety
The motorway was closed in both directions for five hours

Police close M56 over man on bridge's safety

The motorway was closed in both directions for five hours

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Failed Unit]

On a motorway, the cars are independently powered, either from battery or internal combustion therefore the 'only' danger they pose to someone who's trespassing/where they shouldn't is from impact. On a railway (and particularly in this case) the 25,000 volts strung a few metres above the track poses just as high a risk to a trespasser as the trains themselves. No electricity, no movement (at least with the GN EMUs, which in turn stop the LNER bi-modes!)

Good point. A zapping from the overhead is going to take a lot more clearing up. Sadly as a user of this route both trespassing and fatalities to be on the increase. Knowing people that have to clean it up afterwards it is terrible situation for everyone.

 

[InOban]

Is there any reason on the rails the close the line, but the M25 they just slow the traffic. Granted a car can swerve and stop quicker. But would it be possible to keep the service moving slowly during such incidents. (Saying this as I don’t know how long it would take a train to stop at 30mph if the driver spotted the person in front of them)

I often see on motorways a 50mph speed limit sign with the comment “pedestrains reported“.

I feel that more use could be made of driving under caution (or whatever the technical term is). For a start, the driver could report sightings of the person.
Obviously if it's someone on a bridge, or there's another reason to switch off the power that's different.

 

[Magdalia]

The following is quoted from the BBC News website:

"Liam Gallagher's latest gigs led to traffic chaos as fans wandered on to a nearby motorway.
The former Oasis frontman performed two nights at Knebworth, near Stevenage.
On Friday, Hertfordshire Police fined several drivers for using the A1(M) as a drop-off point, and closed it for two hours on Saturday as people spilled on to the carriageway."

For more details see here:

Liam Gallagher: Knebworth fans complain of traffic chaos after gig

The star's two-night stint at Knebworth ends with fans complaining of being stranded in the car park.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bayum]

I feel that more use could be made of driving under caution (or whatever the technical term is). For a start, the driver could report sightings of the person.
Obviously if it's someone on a bridge, or there's another reason to switch off the power that's different.

The post literally above yours says why that wasn’t possible in this scenario.

 

[skyhigh]

I feel that more use could be made of driving under caution (or whatever the technical term is). For a start, the driver could report sightings of the person.

It very much depends on the situation. More often than not, if a trespasser is reported the next train in either direction will be cautioned and if no sightings normal working resumes.

However, if there is poor visibility, the person is known or was reported in a vulnerable position (among other reasons) services may be suspended until a lineside search has been completed. Sometimes a report is made to police that person X is missing, suicidal and suspected to be in an area near the railway, then a separate report is received from a driver of a person lineside in that area - in which case things may be treated with more caution. Even with a train moving at 5mph, there is still a significant risk.

Wherever possible, the job isn't stopped.

 

[DarloRich]

Mental health “care” in this country is absolutely dire. From what I’ve seen there’s very little in the way of help in the majority of cases.

Getting meaningful help for someone proactively is virtually impossible, hence why we see many examples where things have progressed to the cry for help stage.

I have some experience in having attempted to sort something for a relative some time ago, and in all honesty the service was absolutely useless, and quite frankly made things worse not better.

Absolutely spot on ( sadly) and only getting worse

Thankfully most people will never experience just how bad mental health care is in this country. They think that there are services out there that can be easily accessed and relied upon. There aren't. It can takes months ( 6 months+ in a similar situation to the one you describe) to even begin to access treatment. God forbid you ever need help yourself.

 

[Failed Unit]

I remember on in Hatfield a few years ago when some decided to sit down on the fast line. The local paper had a photo of them sat in front of a couple of 365s stood at the signal. It was surprising how long it took the correctly trained people to get there and remove them.

 

[class 9]

LNER services into Leeds from around 2200 last night, severely disrupted due to a fatality at Bentley.

 

[skyhigh]

LNER services into Leeds from around 2200 last night, severely disrupted due to a fatality at Bentley.

A suspected fatality. It wasn't.

 

[GB]

This wasn't just a trespasser, it was also someone who was thought to be suicidal. Even with trains travelling at caution there is still a risk to the individual plus the people on the track looking for them. As to the roads, there are plenty of times where the road is closed due to such situations.