Edinburgh Airport

[mfc3024]

I flew from Edinburgh Airport yesterday and whilst sitting waiting to take-off, I noticed a train going by, not too far from the airport.

What ever happened to the Edinburgh Airport Rail Link? Was it shelved purely because of the trams project or were there other reasons for it not going ahead? I don't know the details in terms of costs / work involved, but the railway does run close to the airport so I would have thought that a branch line would have been an option.

I suppose in the ideal world there would be direct rail connections in all directions to Waverley, north to Fife, Dundee, Perth, west to Cumbernauld / Glasgow but we don't live in an ideal world and so tourists and commuters can only travel by public transport (buses / trams from May 2014) between Edinburgh Airport and Edinburgh city centre.

 

[anti-pacer]

I flew from Edinburgh Airport yesterday and whilst sitting waiting to take-off, I noticed a train going by, not too far from the airport.

What ever happened to the Edinburgh Airport Rail Link? Was it shelved purely because of the trams project or were there other reasons for it not going ahead? I don't know the details in terms of costs / work involved, but the railway does run close to the airport so I would have thought that a branch line would have been an option.

I suppose in the ideal world there would be direct rail connections in all directions to Waverley, north to Fife, Dundee, Perth, west to Cumbernauld / Glasgow but we don't live in an ideal world and so tourists and commuters can only travel by public transport (buses / trams from May 2014) between Edinburgh Airport and Edinburgh city centre.

An opportunity missed there given its proximity to the line and the fact it's Scotland's busiest airport.

 

[Eng274]

Instead we're getting another 'parkway' style station at gogar which will link bus, tram and train to allow people to go to the airport. Eventually.

 

[tbtc]

If there were a station there then it may ruin what business case there is for the trams (given how much faster the trains will be than the tram line which takes a "scenic" route via Edinburgh Park etc)

 

[anti-pacer]

If there were a station there then it may ruin what business case there is for the trams (given how much faster the trains will be than the tram line which takes a "scenic" route via Edinburgh Park etc)

But the tram will also serve the western suburbs of Edinburgh, and I'm sure many local residents use the airport, whether for work or flying.

They also have the 100 express bus which links the airport with the city centre, but still have another Lothian bus that goes a different way via the Gyle Centre.

Also, trains, as pointed out could link the airport with Fife, the North/North East, and Glasgow.

 

[tbtc]

But the tram will also serve the western suburbs of Edinburgh, and I'm sure many local residents use the airport, whether for work or flying.

They also have the 100 express bus which links the airport with the city centre, but still have another Lothian bus that goes a different way via the Gyle Centre.

Also, trains, as pointed out could link the airport with Fife, the North/North East, and Glasgow.

Yes, the tram won't exclusively be for City Centre - Airport passengers, but if you take those passengers away then you are going to take away a significant number of tram passengers.

Western Edinburgh doesn't have the same size of population between the City Centre and Airport as there is in southern Manchester (given the population density of Wythenshaw etc) - a tram in Manchester can serve a completely different market to the train, but I'm not sure that there's a big enough market in Edinburgh for both.

There is the Stagecoach 757 linking the Airport to trains at Inverkeithing, and the tram will link to Edinburgh Park station too.

 

[anti-pacer]

Yes, the tram won't exclusively be for City Centre - Airport passengers, but if you take those passengers away then you are going to take away a significant number of tram passengers.

Western Edinburgh doesn't have the same size of population between the City Centre and Airport as there is in southern Manchester (given the population density of Wythenshaw etc) - a tram in Manchester can serve a completely different market to the train, but I'm not sure that there's a big enough market in Edinburgh for both.

There is the Stagecoach 757 linking the Airport to trains at Inverkeithing, and the tram will link to Edinburgh Park station too.

Depends where those passengers are heading to. If they're staying at a hotel that's 2 mins walk from a tram stop, but yet 15 mins walk from Waverley, they may favour the tram. If a passenger is heading to, say, North Berwick, they'll favour the train.

Passengers from other parts of Scotland would benefit from a direct rail link.

 

[clc]

I flew from Edinburgh Airport yesterday and whilst sitting waiting to take-off, I noticed a train going by, not too far from the airport.

What ever happened to the Edinburgh Airport Rail Link? Was it shelved purely because of the trams project or were there other reasons for it not going ahead? I don't know the details in terms of costs / work involved, but the railway does run close to the airport so I would have thought that a branch line would have been an option.

I suppose in the ideal world there would be direct rail connections in all directions to Waverley, north to Fife, Dundee, Perth, west to Cumbernauld / Glasgow but we don't live in an ideal world and so tourists and commuters can only travel by public transport (buses / trams from May 2014) between Edinburgh Airport and Edinburgh city centre.

EARL was cancelled in 2007 by the new SNP Govt which thought the costs and risks (tunneling under runway) were too high. The cost estimate in 2006 was £550-650m. With inflation and the inevitable cost overruns you'd be looking at a billion plus now.

Route shown here:
http://www.earlproject.com/downloads/ear_detailed_map.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If there were a station there then it may ruin what business case there is for the trams (given how much faster the trains will be than the tram line which takes a "scenic" route via Edinburgh Park etc)

The BCR for the original trams scheme/budget was 1.68 without EARL reducing to 1.1 with EARL:

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/p...&ReferenceNumbers=S3W-01647&ResultsPerPage=10

 

[90019]

But the tram will also serve the western suburbs of Edinburgh, and I'm sure many local residents use the airport, whether for work or flying.

I'm not convinced there's a particularly big market for Stenhouse and Broomhouse to the airport.
The main market there will be people going to the City Centre, but if they want the West End, Waverley, the St James, Leith Walk or London Road, the 1 or the 22 will still be more convenient.
The 1 will still get all the people from Stenhouse going to the football at Easter Road.

They also have the 100 express bus which links the airport with the city centre, but still have another Lothian bus that goes a different way via the Gyle Centre.

The thing about the Airlink is that it serves a lot of of the hotels from Marbury into the City Centre, which the tram won't.
The 35 is also a different market to the tram once it's beyond South Gyle, so I doubt there'll be much change to it.
From the Park and Ride at Ingliston, the tram will partially be competing with the 12 (which is a route I drive), but as that's already single deck and most of the passengers on it are either between the City Centre and Corstorphine, or Corstorphine and the Gyle, I can't see there being too much effect.
You do get plenty of people at the Park and Ride in the peaks, but there's the X12 to deal with that.

I've simplified things a little as I'm on my phone, but that's the gist of it.

 

[khib70]

I'm not convinced there's a particularly big market for Stenhouse and Broomhouse to the airport.
The main market there will be people going to the City Centre, but if they want the West End, Waverley, the St James, Leith Walk or London Road, the 1 or the 22 will still be more convenient.
The 1 will still get all the people from Stenhouse going to the football at Easter Road.




The thing about the Airlink is that it serves a lot of of the hotels from Marbury into the City Centre, which the tram won't.
The 35 is also a different market to the tram once it's beyond South Gyle, so I doubt there'll be much change to it.
From the Park and Ride at Ingliston, the tram will partially be competing with the 12 (which is a route I drive), but as that's already single deck and most of the passengers on it are either between the City Centre and Corstorphine, or Corstorphine and the Gyle, I can't see there being too much effect.
You do get plenty of people at the Park and Ride in the peaks, but there's the X12 to deal with that.

I've simplified things a little as I'm on my phone, but that's the gist of it.

Spot on, really. The tramline misses several large populated areas to the west of the town centre (Gorgie, Corstorphine) and runs on reserved track down the side of a golf course out to Stenhouse/Broomhouse.

It's also going to take 8 minutes longer than the Airlink bus and cost 25% more for a return ticket to/from the airport.. And Airlink's Waverley Bridge terminus is a damn sight handier for the station than either of the two "adjacent" tram stops at the Mound and St Andrew's Square.

 

[Zoidberg]

...

The 35 is also a different market to the tram once it's beyond South Gyle, so I doubt there'll be much change to it.

...

I hope that there is no change to the 35. It's an excellent service for getting to the airport without paying a premium. All one has to do is leave sufficient time for the journey. The first time I used it I was very impressed with the coach style seats on what's a 'normal' bus route.

 

[90019]

I hope that there is no change to the 35. It's an excellent service for getting to the airport without paying a premium. All one has to do is leave sufficient time for the journey. The first time I used it I was very impressed with the coach style seats on what's a 'normal' bus route.

They're the Scanias that used to be on the Airlink. They started to replace the seats in some of them, but didn't do them all, so there are still a few with the Airlink seats (with the logo removed).
They are very nice buses to travel on, in my opinion. Never driven one, though.

 

[Eng274]

They're the Scanias that used to be on the Airlink. They started to replace the seats in some of them, but didn't do them all, so there are still a few with the Airlink seats (with the logo removed).
They are very nice buses to travel on, in my opinion. Never driven one, though.

Indeed. A welcome anomaly in a sea of Volvo/wright. Pity they never get any chance to stretch their legs like they did on the 100, barely reach 3rd gear on the 35. And one caught fire recently

 

[clc]

.. Airlink's Waverley Bridge terminus is a damn sight handier for the station than either of the two "adjacent" tram stops at the Mound and St Andrew's Square.

Surely in the vast majority of cases you would change at Haymarket rather than Waverley? There cant be many services from/to Waverley which dont call at Haymarket.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There cant be many services from/to Waverley which dont call at Haymarket.

On a weekday, there are 16 East Coast southbound services which start at Waverley (and therefore do not call at Haymarket) plus another 4 starting at Aberdeen and 1 each starting at Inverness & Glasgow which do call at Haymarket.

 

[route:oxford]

On a weekday, there are 16 East Coast southbound services which start at Waverley (and therefore do not call at Haymarket) plus another 4 starting at Aberdeen and 1 each starting at Inverness & Glasgow which do call at Haymarket.

There must be a few XC services that don't call at Haymarket too...

Either way the percentage of domestic services that don't call at Haymarket as well as Edinburgh must be very small.

For myself, I can't wait to be able to disembark at Edinburgh Park from the Stirling train and reach the airport briskly.

Likewise when I visit Edinburgh for work, head straight for the tram and be at our Gyle offices quickly.

 

[ninja-lewis]

From the Park and Ride at Ingliston, the tram will partially be competing with the 12 (which is a route I drive), but as that's already single deck and most of the passengers on it are either between the City Centre and Corstorphine, or Corstorphine and the Gyle, I can't see there being too much effect.
You do get plenty of people at the Park and Ride in the peaks, but there's the X12 to deal with that.

I've simplified things a little as I'm on my phone, but that's the gist of it.

According to the Preparing for Operations document that the council published last month, the 12 will revert to terminating at the Gyle while the X12 will be abolished. Instead Ingliston P&R users will be forced onto the tram at a premium fare of £2.50 (compared to £1.50 for the current bus) while Ratho residents will see their 12/X12 service replaced with a shuttle bus to Ingliston and the tram - useful if they want to travel anywhere along the Corstorphine corridor!

Hardly surprising the council expect greater fare evasion on the tram - because of the multiple doors and the difficulty in ensuring that everyone traveling beyond Gogar has paid one of the premium fares. Despite this the tram offers less chance of a seat and less luggage rack space per passenger than the Airlink. The Airlink not only leaves/departs closer to Waverley, it will also be closer to the arrivals/departure door at the Airport.

 

[tbtc]

Ingliston P&R users will be forced onto the tram at a premium fare of £2.50 (compared to £1.50 for the current bus)

Presumably most P&R users are going to be more concerned about the return fare (or day/ weekly/ monthly cost)

Ratho residents will see their 12/X12 service replaced with a shuttle bus to Ingliston and the tram - useful if they want to travel anywhere along the Corstorphine corridor!

Ratho survived without a direct bus to Corstorphine/ CIty Centre for many years (when it was the 37 etc).

 

[Tobbes]

On an HS2 related point, I see from Skyscanner that there are 299 flights a week to the (six!) London airports (LHR, LGW, City, Stansted, Luton, Southend). I wonder how many of them would survive a proper HS2 service to Euston via OOC (for Crossrail to LHR and City/Canary Wharf) in under three hours?

Tobbes

 

[edwin_m]

On an HS2 related point, I see from Skyscanner that there are 299 flights a week to the (six!) London airports (LHR, LGW, City, Stansted, Luton, Southend). I wonder how many of them would survive a proper HS2 service to Euston via OOC (for Crossrail to LHR and City/Canary Wharf) in under three hours?

Tobbes

That's the exact argument the Scottish Government is making and was also made in the original Network Rail high speed study. Air to rail modal shift will be limited at the places served by HS2 phases 1 and 2 because most of them are already within the three mile limit. Air travel between these places is minimal and most of what remains is interlining at Heathrow.

The argument is that HS2 should extend to Scotland much earlier than envisaged at present - interestingly it is only when this happens that the potential journey time savings of HS2 start to deliver some real benefits.

 

[cjp]

That's the exact argument the Scottish Government is making and was also made in the original Network Rail high speed study. Air to rail modal shift will be limited at the places served by HS2 phases 1 and 2 because most of them are already within the three mile limit. Air travel between these places is minimal and most of what remains is interlining at Heathrow.

The argument is that HS2 should extend to Scotland much earlier than envisaged at present - interestingly it is only when this happens that the potential journey time savings of HS2 start to deliver some real benefits.

When (if) Scotland votes for independance schemes for England - Scotland rail improvements will prove "interesting" to arrange.
Details no one has yet spoken about in the Debate.:cry:

 

[tbtc]

When (if) Scotland votes for independance schemes for England - Scotland rail improvements will prove "interesting" to arrange.
Details no one has yet spoken about in the Debate.:cry:

It already seems hard enough to get anyone to commit to the upgrades required on the A1 between Morpeth and Dunbar - no incentive for one party to dual as far as the Border without the other one doing so - it may even be easier to get two separate Governments to organise something than two branches of the UK?

(in the way that politicians now have more control over the privatised railways in 2013 than they ever did when it was nationalised under BR and therefore not accountable - but I appreciate I am going well off topic)

 

[Butts]

I would have preferred a Rail Link to the Airport but then I live in Falkirk.

Parking Charges (unless booked well in advance) at EDI have gone into hyperspace in the last few years. I wonder how much they rake in per year :-x

Personally I park at Ferrytoll (free) and get the 747 Jet to the Airport (£9 odd for a period return - that has shot up quite a bit as well recently and you can only park for a week at Ferrytoll now)

Alternatively I can get a 38 from Falkirk and walk down to the Airport from the main road -ok on a nice day.

The danger of using the Airlink 100 into town or haymarket is that the last train to Falkirk leaves Waverley just around 2330 so if you flight is delayed you can end up stranded in Edinburgh.

With over 1 Million passengers Edinburgh is Scotland's busiest Airport and should have a direct rail link with express services non-stop to Falkirk Grahamston

 

[route:oxford]

When (if) Scotland votes for independance schemes for England - Scotland rail improvements will prove "interesting" to arrange.
Details no one has yet spoken about in the Debate.:cry:

It will be easy.

Scotrail service will arrive into the "International" platform at Carlisle, passengers will go through security and customs then board their HS service to English or Welsh destination.

England will protect her borders, just as the USA do with Canada - no matter what the nationalists claim.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

According to the Preparing for Operations document that the council published last month, the 12 will revert to terminating at the Gyle while the X12 will be abolished. Instead Ingliston P&R users will be forced onto the tram at a premium fare of £2.50 (compared to £1.50 for the current bus) .

"Premium Fare". *giggles*

It's still around 40% less than a cash fare from Leicester Square to Picadilly Circus.

 

[Butts]

It will be easy.

Scotrail service will arrive into the "International" platform at Carlisle, passengers will go through security and customs then board their HS service to English or Welsh destination.

England will protect her borders, just as the USA do with Canada - no matter what the nationalists claim.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


"Premium Fare". *giggles*

It's still around 40% less than a cash fare from Leicester Square to Picadilly Circus.

What about Northbound ?

Should be fun at Gretna Green

 

[SkinnyDave]

It will be easy.

Scotrail service will arrive into the "International" platform at Carlisle, passengers will go through security and customs then board their HS service to English or Welsh destination.

England will protect her borders, just as the USA do with Canada - no matter what the nationalists claim.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


"Premium Fare". *giggles*

It's still around 40% less than a cash fare from Leicester Square to Picadilly Circus.

Hmm like England protected her borders and Ulster's borders during the height of the troubles?
Don't think so..

 

[route:oxford]

Hmm like England protected her borders and Ulster's borders during the height of the troubles?
Don't think so..

Clearly Scotland and the principality didn't help much either.

When I worked in Weegieland there was often sectarian fighting in the office. All it would take would be one of the staff to start singing folk songs about potatoes and fists would be drawn.

 

[SkinnyDave]

Clearly Scotland and the principality didn't help much either.

When I worked in Weegieland there was often sectarian fighting in the office. All it would take would be one of the staff to start singing folk songs about potatoes and fists would be drawn.

There always will be regardless of constitutional position! they will maybe learn it is pointless fighting about trivial things but I doubt it.

Back on topic ( ish)I hear there have been mutterings about a High Speed line between Edinburgh and Glagow, to me that is just daft.

The whole point of high speed rail apart from capacity is distance. A high speed link would only work in Scotland if it included Aberdeen in my view.

 

[clc]

Back on topic ( ish)I hear there have been mutterings about a High Speed line between Edinburgh and Glagow, to me that is just daft.

The whole point of high speed rail apart from capacity is distance. A high speed link would only work in Scotland if it included Aberdeen in my view.

As a stand alone scheme it would be daft. As first phase of Scotland to England HSR it makes sense.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Clearly Scotland and the principality didn't help much either.

Please explain.