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Edinburgh bus station under threat as owners plan to end lease with council

och aye

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This will be a massive hammer blow if the Council and Coal Pension Properties can't come to an arrangement and there is no replacement built before 2027.


Edinburgh bus station under threat as owners plan to end lease with council

The future of Edinburgh Bus Station is hanging in the balance as its owners could attempt to redevelop the city centre site, it is understood.

The council has been told its lease of the station in St Andrew Square will not be renewed beyond 2027 and currently has no replacement identified, according to sources.

Transport convener Scott Arthur said be was “disappointed that such a modern and well-used piece of Edinburgh’s sustainable transport infrastructure may be lost”. Cllr Arthur said officials were “currently considering options which will be presented to and considered by committee at a future date”.

The Local Democracy Reporting Service understands bus station owners Coal Pension Properties, which manages property investments for a coal industry workers’ pension scheme, do not intend to continue leasing the site when its current arrangement with the local authority runs out in 2027, amid hopes to turn it into a residential development.
 
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JKP

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The suggestion of Ingliston is nonsense. What about buses from the Borders? A return to Waterloo Place again?
 

158756

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Does Ingliston make sense for anyone? Would that mean National Express, Megabus, Citylink etc wouldn't be able to serve Edinburgh proper at all, just a car park a 30 minute tram ride away?
 

overthewater

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Most likely we'll end up back in St Andrew Square like during 2000-2002 period. However it's not the world's best bus station and the traffic delays trying to get in and out are a disgrace which the council does absolutely nothing to sort out.

Weren't there plans to move the bus station closer to Waverley?

Good luck to the coal board pension fund; it will be a cold day in hell before the council will approve residential properties on that site and we could see it being dragged out for years. I think a compulsory purchase order to buy the site will happen but they really should try and find somewhere better.
 
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Tayway

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Commandeer the coach park on Regent Road? Slightly out of the way but probably the only place near the City Centre with sufficient space.
 

Clydeflyer

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Use Waverley Bridge in a throwback to pre-1986 when Scottish Bus Group wouldn't' let anybody into the bus stations. Waverley Bridge had that nice mini roundabout at the opposite end from Princes Street that all the coaches used to 3/4/5/6 point turn on. Just needs a few bus stop poles....
 

Blindtraveler

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This is complete and total lunacy. Does it also affect the Harvey nickels development and units on moultry's walk? None of the city centre suggestions above would now work both due to their silly little toy train and the fact that Edinburgh 2027 looks very different in terms of road and traffic use plus number of bus passengers particularly tourists to how it did in 2002 full-start
City of Edinburgh Council despite its claims of financial woe has sufficient money to buy that site outright and by that point it will probably require a semi decent refurb anyway, I mean it's nearly 10 years since they last did the toilets and whilst they're doing okay they'll need doing again soon but of course that will go on hold now due to this latest hammer blow. On a side note, who in hell would want to live there? I certainly wouldn't
 

PG

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Most likely we'll end up back in St Andrew Square like during 2000-2002 period. However it's not the world's best bus station and the traffic delays trying to get in and out are a disgrace which the council does absolutely nothing to sort out.
It seems amazing that the capital city thought that a bus station with a single width point of entry sufficed, never mind it being tucked away in what resembles a back street service access!
 

InOban

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I wonder:

1. Almost all the coaches are heading west from the city.

2. There's too much traffic on Princes Street and the Council would like to reduce it.

3. The Council is actively discouraging cars coming into town and would I'm sure like to reduce the number of parking spaces

Would it be better to replace the Castle Terrace car park with a new bus station with some car parking on top?
 

loris

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The bus station is in a good spot for connections and being able to walk everywhere in Edinburgh City Centre, I can't imagine where else they'd put it.


Would it be better to replace the Castle Terrace car park with a new bus station with some car parking on top?
It is listed so they might struggle to do that.
 

JKP

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It seems amazing that the capital city thought that a bus station with a single width point of entry sufficed, never mind it being tucked away in what resembles a back street service access!
I would tend to agree. When I used the 101 into Edinburgh, I would have been quicker alighting in Princes Street and walking to the bus station than sitting on the bus waiting to turn right at the lights across York Place and then at the rather unnecessary set of lights to turn right into the bus station itself.

I wonder:

1. Almost all the coaches are heading west from the city.

2. There's too much traffic on Princes Street and the Council would like to reduce it.

3. The Council is actively discouraging cars coming into town and would I'm sure like to reduce the number of parking spaces

Would it be better to replace the Castle Terrace car park with a new bus station with some car parking on top?
The better plan would be buses on top and cars below as it is rather dingy and there can be some rather dubious characters hanging around. Might upset the farmers market traders though on a Saturday and is not all that convenient for buses coming from the south east.
 

Dave2105

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An agreement will be reached as it’s beneficial for both parties. I suspect the council will pay an increased rent and pay for an upgrade to facilities etc. Both parties could be equally worse off if no agreement is reached as the council could lose the station and the coal board could be left with an asset that doesn’t generate any revenue and any proposed plans are rejected by the council planning.
 
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I wonder:

1. Almost all the coaches are heading west from the city.

2. There's too much traffic on Princes Street and the Council would like to reduce it.

3. The Council is actively discouraging cars coming into town and would I'm sure like to reduce the number of parking spaces

Would it be better to replace the Castle Terrace car park with a new bus station with some car parking on top?

Using Castle Terrace would lose all your rail interconnection and significantly worsen tram integration. I can't see demolishing and rebuilding it being cheap and you'd have to renegotiate NCP's lease.
You would lose some traffic from Princes St from west/north but gain all the east services and some of the southern ones unless you send them via the Meadows
 

Blindtraveler

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An agreement will be reached as it’s beneficial for both parties. I suspect the council will pay an increased rent and pay for an upgrade to facilities etc. Both parties could be equally worse off if no agreement is reached as the council could lose the station and the coal board could be left with an asset that doesn’t generate any revenue and any proposed plans are rejected by the council planning.
Unless of course they are for tourist accommodation or student flats which they rubber stamp without looking at them these days, x Edinburgh resident speaking no word of a lie
 

InOban

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Using Castle Terrace would lose all your rail interconnection and significantly worsen tram integration. I can't see demolishing and rebuilding it being cheap and you'd have to renegotiate NCP's lease.
You would lose some traffic from Princes St from west/north but gain all the east services and some of the southern ones unless you send them via the Meadows
Winners and losers. The best rail and tram interconnections are at Haymarket. The only buses from the South and East which terminate at the bus station are four Borders Buses routes; all the East Coast buses terminate on street either at Haymarket or on Semple st (I think ) Given the development of North Edinburgh and leith they should anyway be extended in that direction.
Admittedly buses across the Forth Bridge still come in by Queensferry Road, but I'm sure that passengers continuing beyond Edinburgh would take the train for the whole way rather than change in Edinburgh.
Buf it certainly wouldn't be cheap - I assume that the Council owns the car park but I don't know how much NCP pay. I hope it's a lot, having looked at the charges
 

318266

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And even then, for the Borders Buses routes in particular I tend to alight at the stop just after the intersection with Princes St from North Bridge, and then run to the Bus Station. Last time I did this, I made a 900 that left before the X95 I was on had even arrived.
 

gingerheid

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Things like this turn me slightly communist!

They need to have a clear understanding that the place won't get planning permission for anything else, and that if Edinburgh is without a bus station for as much one day there will be a compulsory purchase order!
 

overthewater

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I have found it, there were plans to move that bus station 20 years ago.


The news comes six months before the opening of the bus terminus at St Andrew Square after two years of construction , but city leaders believe the cost and upheaval would be worthwhile.
The new station is due to open in November, replacing its predecessor in the same location, as part of the 50 million Harvey Nichols development. But even as final works are carried out, the city council is already looking four to eight years ahead to the proposed 400m redevelopment of Waverley Station.
As well as increasing the number of platforms at the station and adding a shopping centre, it is hoped the massive scheme could turn the station into a fully-fledged transport interchange. Part of that could include a bus station . The plan now is to enter into talks with station owner Railtrack and the Strategic Rail Authority .
In a report to councillors, the director of city development, Andrew Holmes, says: " With the delivery of this project now a firm prospect in the next few years, there are potentially opportunities for accommodating integrated facilities for strategic bus services.
"The possibility of relocating the bus station in a few years’ time to a redeveloped Waverley Station should be considered."
Council transport leader, Councillor Andrew Burns, said: "Potentially, that area around Waverley Bridge could be used. But it’s five to six years ahead. Although St Andrew Square is going to be fantastic compared with the old bus station, a better solution, ultimately, would be to integrate buses with the rail station."

He said it had been " not an option" to hold back on a new bus station .
The council believes the attractiveness of the St Andrew Square site would make it easy to get out of the lease with landowner Coal Pension Properties.
Mr Burns said: " That is likely to be an extremely desirable piece of property."
 

och aye

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An update...

Edinburgh bus station: Owners say they could extend lease after all or even sell site to council​



The pension fund which owns Edinburgh bus station in St Andrew Square has told the council it is willing to consider renewing the lease after all - or even selling the site to the local authority.

It was revealed earlier this week that Coal Pension Properties, which manages property investments for a coal industry workers’ pension scheme, had indicated it did not intend to continue leasing the site when its current agreement with the council runs out in 2027.

But in an apparent change of heart, it is understood the fund contacted the council and discussions have now taken place. Council transport convener Scott Arthur said: “They say they are open to either the council perhaps extending the lease or even buying the site from them.”

Cllr Arthur told the Evening News: “The bus station is a key part of Edinburgh’s sustainable transport infrastructure and I’m disappointed a pension fund would consider putting its future at risk. I’m pleased they are open to negotiations around the council either buying or leasing the site.

“I’ve discussed it with council officers and they will bring a report to committee after the summer, which will look at the future of the bus station, including leasing, purchase or alternative locations within central Edinburgh.”
 

ejstubbs

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Unless of course they are for tourist accommodation or student flats which they rubber stamp without looking at them these days, x Edinburgh resident speaking no word of a lie

Are you quite sure about that?

Edinburgh student accommodation: Controversial Eyre Place scheme in Canonmills is refused for a second time

Unanimous decision follows strong objections from neighbouring residents
Published 6th Dec 2023, 18:09 BST
Updated 6th Dec 2023, 18:09 BST

Controversial plans for “monolithic” student flats in an Edinburgh neighbourhood have been rejected for a second time after councillors said revised proposals were almost identical to ones refused earlier this year.

A fresh bid to redevelop land at Canonmills, previously home to a builders yard, with 139-bed block of student accommodation and seven townhouses were thrown out following a three-hour hearing, despite being backed by planning officials.

Councillors cited over 450 objections and concerns over loss of daylight and privacy and the “overbearing” scale of the proposed building in Eyre Place, as well as late-night noise from its roof terrace. And one said in the context of the council’s recently-declared housing emergency it “fails to provide sufficient residential housing”.

The development in Eyre Place has been reduced from six storeys to five, but residents said it would till be too dominant.

However representatives for applicants said the housing crisis would “not go away any time soon” if the council continued to oppose student developments.

Locals living around the site have rallied against the plans since they first emerged two years ago. But they were denied the opportunity to have their voices heard when the initial unsuccessful application came forward, due to an appeal by the developer to appeal to the Scottish Government.

In response to the Scottish Government planning reporter’s refusal of the plans on the grounds of grounds of design, amenity, scale and the impact on the area’s “sense of place”, the student block’s height was reduced from six storeys to five, while two fewer townhouses were included in the second set of proposals which went before the planning sub-committee on Wednesday.

However local Conservative councillor Max Mitchell said changes were “so slight that it’s almost like nothing has changed at all”. He said: “It doesn’t for me change the decision that was taken earlier this year by the reporter.”

And committee convener Hal Osler said: “I don’t think the actual issues have been addressed. The best was done to make this acceptable. But I don’t think it was good enough.”

Richard Price from New Town and Broughton Community Council said CA Developments’ “very similar” and “slightly rushed application” for the revised scheme had “ignored concerns expressed by objectors”.

Speaking on behalf of Eyre Place Lane residents Scott Baxter said the community felt the site was “not appropriate” for a large student block. He said the new plans “reduced internal and external amenity space by 37 per cent from the previous application”.

And he continued: “This is a very unpopular proposal with over 450 objections. Many of the objections to the proposal are about its excessive height compared to adjacent buildings, it’s monolithic scale and proportion and it’s insensitivity to the overall character of the area.”

He said the community was not opposed to the site’s redevelopment but added it was “more suited to sustainable family homes that serve the Canonmills community”.

Chris Edwards, who lives on Rodney Street adjacent to Eyre Place, said: “Compared to the previous design, little has changed from our point of view. It’s five storeys rather than six, but still vastly larger than anything previously on site. And with only a small reduction in units from 142 to 139 it has a larger footprint sprawling further down the lane.

“A roof terrace as a social space would be new to the area and is a huge concern for locals. Noise at higher levels travels and so any noise nuisance would be far reaching.”

Addressing the committee, Greens Inverleith councillor Jule Bandel, said the city “desperately needs more affordable residential housing”. She said: “Only last month this council declared a housing emergency and for this reason I think councillors on this committee should take it very seriously that this application fails to provide sufficient residential housing.” She added the development would also “fail to create a good place to live for students”.

However, appearing on behalf of CA Developments, planning consultant Paul Scott said: “If there is continual resistance to this type of application which delivers a specialist form of housing – but it is a form of housing – then that housing emergency will not go away any time soon.”

He said the Scottish Government was “supportive of the principle of purpose built student accommodation and housing in this location”. He said previous plans were refused due to “modest infringements in terms of scale”.

Meanwhile SNP Inverleith councillor Vicky Nicolson said the plans could negatively impact The Yard, a neighbouring charity which supports disabled children and young people through adventure play.

She said: “As someone that came from a social care background, I have had a lot of involvement with The Yard over the years. It has been there since 1986 providing services to children, some with very complex needs. Many of these children and young people arrive in adapted transport and minibuses because of their access requirements and this place offers a unique opportunity in the city and indeed in Scotland to children and parents.

“I think it would be utterly unacceptable for this application to negatively impact the wonderful work done by The Yard.”

Councillors unanimously refused the plans and developers now have the option to appeal again to the Scottish Government.

And the Scottish Government Reporter has turned down the appeal.
 

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