Edinburgh Tram developments

[takno]

It’s a good mile or so into Midlothian. The city boundary is at The Wisp.

The city boundary runs along the road outside the P&R according to my map

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The city boundary runs along the road outside the P&R according to my map

That road (the A7) is in Midlothian from the Wisp onwards though. Only the fields, maybe 5 houses and a small number of industrial units on the other side of the road are within Edinburgh. Granted eventually this will probably be built on and therefore we might see a boundary change, but for now the Park & Ride is still within Midlothian.

From a tram perspective, the boundary changeover is still a mile before the Park & Ride. I should’ve made that part slightly clearer.

 

[SteveP29]

I have not seen any reference on this thread to the fact that two of the p+r sites are in Midlothian at Sherrifhall and Straiton. These sites are in my opinion too far out of the city. I have used the Sherrifhall site on a number of occasions. It was never very well used and Post Covid is even quieter. The buses take too long to reach the centre as they do a tour around the hospital grounds and have also recently been reduced in frequency. Added to this, the building housing the enquiry office and toilets never seems to be open. All in all depressing and needs a rethink.

Every time we've gone out to IKEA on the bus, the p&r at Straiton seems quite well used but as you say, the information/ shelter building is never open

 

[VioletEclipse]

So currently it seems like a section of overhead wire on the eastbound line at the York Place points has failed/been damaged and is being repaired, closing half the line.

 

[computerSaysNo]

So currently it seems like a section of overhead wire on the eastbound line at the York Place points has failed/been damaged and is being repaired, closing half the line.

And yet no disruption was reported on the app
Do we know if the trams are going to be getting live tracking on the app any time soon?

 

[overthewater]

I think its shameful that people seem to think the only solution to parking issues at Ingliston Park & Ride is to make people pay. No the right way is to expand it and there is plenty of land to expand it and still have alot of house. I think they might have to do this. Trams are already extremely busy right now.
There are two other Edinburgh Park n ride IE Fife ones and they have done a great job getting traffic of the roads,

Its becoming clear there is NO room for new passengers and well how can anyone expect cars to make the switch if they can't even get on a bus, tram or even a train in the case of Newcraighall..

 

[Blindtraveler]

Agreed

 

[NotATrainspott]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/cost-to-build-a-station-car-parking-space.253126/

This appears to be a relevant thread.

The problem is the cost. If you think it's a good idea, that's fine. But, the council/Edinburgh Trams don't have an unlimited budget. Since it's unlikely a car park expansion will result in an increase in tram fares that covers the cost of building and operating it, the funding will have to be prioritised against other investments. In terms of reducing car use within Edinburgh, there are much cheaper ways to achieve that - e.g. by adding protected cycle lanes.

 

[och aye]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/cost-to-build-a-station-car-parking-space.253126/

This appears to be a relevant thread.

The problem is the cost. If you think it's a good idea, that's fine. But, the council/Edinburgh Trams don't have an unlimited budget. Since it's unlikely a car park expansion will result in an increase in tram fares that covers the cost of building and operating it, the funding will have to be prioritised against other investments. In terms of reducing car use within Edinburgh, there are much cheaper ways to achieve that - e.g. by adding protected cycle lanes.

The Council are also rolling out LTNs in Leith and a trial in Corstorphine, although some residents aren't too pleased with it!

Deliberate damage caused to Corstorphine bus gate

In what appears to have been a deliberate act the bus gate camera on Manse Road was cut down over night and the council had to send out officers to make it safe. The post on which the camera had be…

theedinburghreporter.co.uk

In what appears to have been a deliberate act the bus gate camera on Manse Road was cut down over night and the council had to send out officers to make it safe.

The post on which the camera had been sitting was cut and left in a potentially dangerous condition, leaving no option but to cut the column down and make it safe.

Cllr Scott Arthur, Transport and Environment Convener, said: “There’s no excuse for dangerous criminal behaviour like this. We are lucky a member of the public reported it to us early on Sunday morning so that our crews could quickly attend and make the column safe, and I’d like to thank them for this.

“The trial road safety measures in Corstorphine aim to address the fact the majority of local residents (67%) feel there is an issue with vehicles in the area. Given that context, this type of reckless criminal behaviour is shameful, and I know that local people both for and against the scheme are concerned about what’s happened. The damage to council property and the graffiti is completely unacceptable and all it achieves is disruption, expense and a damaging effect on the reputation of a great local community.

“We’ll be reviewing CCTV footage and speaking to Police this week, and I’d urge anyone who knows who may be responsible for this senseless criminal act to reach out to the Police too. Given the risk the damage posed to the people in the adjacent retirement housing, I hope those responsible are promptly brought to justice.

 

[VioletEclipse]

was service number T50 ever used officially for the tram line? I've seen it in various places in reference to the line, but can't mind ever seeing Edinburgh Trams themselves use it.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

was service number T50 ever used officially for the tram line? I've seen it in various places in reference to the line, but can't mind ever seeing Edinburgh Trams themselves use it.

I’ve only ever seen it on Transport for Edinburgh network maps.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I’ve been quite curious recently, what is the least used tram stop in Edinburgh?

Surely it has to be either Gogarburn, Edinburgh Park Central or Gateway?

Gateway seems to be more staff than actual passengers, Gogarburn only has RBS (which I can imagine would be busy at peak time), while Edinburgh Park Central is in the middle of a half empty business park.

 

[A330Alex]

Over COVID it was likely Gogarburn but I’d suspect it’s currently Gateway.

There are major developments nearby and a new bridge over the railway coming so it might not be for too long.

There are some new leisure facilities around Edinburgh Park Central which will be helping mitigate the quieter offices.

 

[cammyeaston]

Over COVID it was likely Gogarburn but I’d suspect it’s currently Gateway.

There are major developments nearby and a new bridge over the railway coming so it might not be for too long.

There are some new leisure facilities around Edinburgh Park Central which will be helping mitigate the quieter offices.

I'd been wondering if a bridge over the railway to allow residents of the new developments to use both train and tram would be forthcoming. Do you happen to have any further details to hand?

 

[A330Alex]

I'd been wondering if a bridge over the railway to allow residents of the new developments to use both train and tram would be forthcoming. Do you happen to have any further details to hand?

You can see the planning application here which has some drawings of the bridge. Construction has been significantly delayed due to issues with Network Rail but should hopefully start in December.

 

[eoff]

I must be atypical, in the past year the tram stops I used most and almost exclusively were:

Edinburgh Airport
Gyle Central
Edinburgh Park Station
Edinburgh Gateway
Edinburgh Park Central (twice)

 

[SteveP29]

I must be atypical, in the past year the tram stops I used most and almost exclusively were:

Edinburgh Airport
Gyle Central
Edinburgh Park Station
Edinburgh Gateway
Edinburgh Park Central (twice)

Mine would be
Princes Street
St Andrew's Square
Picardy Place
Foot of the Walk
Ocean Terminal and
Newhaven

 

[oldman]

A report from Midlothian View on the plan for a second tram route:

A public consultation will inform the Strategic Business Case for a tram route from Granton to the BioQuarter and beyond, if approved by councillors next week.

On Thursday Transport and Environment Committee will hear about a recommended north – south tram line, which would extend the existing network between the Airport and Newhaven. This would run through the city centre via Roseburn then on to North and South Bridge, Clerk Street and Minto Street to Cameron Toll, before following the A7 to the BioQuarter. Further consideration is being given to potential future routes into neighbouring local authorities.

If members agree to proceed, a 12-week consultation in spring 2024 would show participants the recommended route across the four sections (Granton – City Centre; through the City Centre; City Centre – BioQuarter; and BioQuarter and beyond) and explain why it has been chosen. It will include details of alternative options that have been explored and the reasons why these have been discounted.

Quotes from the Transport Convenor and a bit of (probably over-)optimism about finance.

“We’re already engaging with Transport Scotland to explore financial options, and it’s encouraging that mass rapid transit in the area has been highlighted as an investment priority by the Scottish Government. We’ll continue to work closely with them and other stakeholders as we look to progress this major project.”

In addition to local policies, The Scottish Government National Transport Strategy (NTS) and Transport Scotland’s Strategic Transport Projects Review 2 (STPR2) have highlighted Edinburgh and South-East Scotland Mass Transit as an investment priority.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

(Still here, waiting for the UK railways to settle down).
Pardon a foreigner’s ignorance, but where is Edinburgh’s “BioQuarter”?

 

[takno]

(Still here, waiting for the UK railways to settle down).
Pardon a foreigner’s ignorance, but where is Edinburgh’s “BioQuarter”?

Roslyn. About 8 miles south of the centre

 

[InOban]

Recommended route for Granton to BioQuarter tram

Proposals for a tram route between Granton and the BioQuarter

t.co

This links to the City Council document.

 

[och aye]

(Still here, waiting for the UK railways to settle down).
Pardon a foreigner’s ignorance, but where is Edinburgh’s “BioQuarter”?

Glad to see you're still about @PaxVobiscum I really enjoyed your Glasgow Queen Street updates before Covid curtailed your updates. Will you and your trusty seagull do a final wrap-up video showing the completed station?

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Thanks - there’s an idea. I would have to ask ScotRail very nicely.
I did actually attempt to film a last tour accompanied by NR operatives during the snagging phase, but certain other people in authority asked me to delete the footage in their presence as “it is now an operational area”.
Shortly afterwards I discovered a freely accessible NR presentation online that showed all the same areas in some detail.

Recommended route for Granton to BioQuarter tram

Proposals for a tram route between Granton and the BioQuarter

t.co

This links to the City Council document.

Thanks for that link.
I think my daughter works in that area but I’ve not heard it called that before.

 

[takno]

I think my daughter works in that area but I’ve not heard it called that before.

I think the city council are using it a lot and tying to make it a thing, but I've never personally heard it used by anybody else. As far as I can tell it's basically some unholy combination of the Dick Vet, Rosslyn Institute and a bit of an attempt at an office park that nobody wants to go to because it's so far out.

 

[waverley47]

Roslyn. About 8 miles south of the centre

The bioquarter is actually the area around the Royal Infirmary, at Little France

There's the big hospital, as well as an ever growing amalgamation of biotech and biomedical firms in the new offices springing up, basically as an equivalent of the area south of Cambridge currently recieving a new station.

The tram line is destined first for the Royal Infirmary, and the branches to either/both of Newcraighall and Sheriffhall come later. It's a massive traffic draw, the terminus of many bus lines, and an already established tech area, park and ride, and employment centre, and the hospital is the second largest in Scotland, and third largest in the UK north of Manchester.

 

[takno]

The bioquarter is actually the area around the Royal Infirmary, at Little France

There's the big hospital, as well as an ever growing amalgamation of biotech and biomedical firms in the new offices springing up, basically as an equivalent of the area south of Cambridge currently recieving a new station.

The tram line is destined first for the Royal Infirmary, and the branches to either/both of Newcraighall and Sheriffhall come later. It's a massive traffic draw, the terminus of many bus lines, and an already established tech area, park and ride, and employment centre, and the hospital is the second largest in Scotland, and third largest in the UK north of Manchester.

Ahh there we go. That's the trouble with constantly rebranding areas and using fashion-based names for areas. I only live a couple of miles away from it and apparently I don't have a clue where it is. At least running the tram to there is a bit cheaper

 

[Blindtraveler]

Whilst I completely agree that the royal infirmary and surrounding area needs a complete rethink from a public transport point of view particularly from the city centre, Street running all the way from town on the proposed route is ridiculous in my view and some kind of elevated tramway or light rail should be considered instead

 

[takno]

Whilst I completely agree that the royal infirmary and surrounding area needs a complete rethink from a public transport point of view particularly from the city centre, Street running all the way from town on the proposed route is ridiculous in my view and some kind of elevated tramway or light rail should be considered instead

I don't think there's any route you could run to get there without cutting straight through some very inviolable parkland, and then you'd manage to avoid all the places you wanted the tram to go to on the way. Once you're past the Bridges, the road is effectively four lanes all the way so there's no massive issue fitting it in. Obviously the resulting journey won't be any faster or more comfortable than running a limited-stop bus would be, but that isn't the point for some reason.

 

[waverley47]

Whilst I completely agree that the royal infirmary and surrounding area needs a complete rethink from a public transport point of view particularly from the city centre, Street running all the way from town on the proposed route is ridiculous in my view and some kind of elevated tramway or light rail should be considered instead

I genuinely don't think you could upset many more people in Edinburgh than with the suggestion of building elevated trams.

Ultimately, the teams are a good thing for capacity and getting people out of cars. However Edinburgh will always be stuck in that uncomfortable middle ground where the geography and history means streets are narrow and winding, but the city is too small to just go underground.

Surface trams are what we have, and ultimately if it speeds up passengers by removing half of the busses and cars down Nicholson Street, then I am gleefully in favour, although I fear I will not be around to see it myself .

 

[takno]

Surface trams are what we have, and ultimately if it speeds up passengers by removing half of the busses and cars down Nicholson Street, then I am gleefully in favour, although I fear I will not be around to see it myself .

This is the core of the problem. There are 60 buses an hour each way down Nicholson street, and only about 6 of them have their route covered by the new tram route. You might get away with slightly reducing frequency on other routes so that you got rid of maybe a quarter of the buses, based on the assumption that a proportion of their passengers are only travelling within the area covered by the tram. Beyond that you'd end up having to make people change onto the tram which, even if it did work in reality, isn't going to work in this case because there aren't any sensible interchange points.

The rationale provided in the council papers for running down Nicholson Street rather than Lothian Road is facile to the point of almost insulting, and if that's the quality of the analysis they've done more widely then I'm worried the new line is heading for the same kind of overruns as the original airport route.