At most terminal stations the locomotive was uncoupled from the coaches, a different engine attached to the other end and worked the next train. The locomotive at the buffers followed the train as it left as far as the signal at the end of the platform, where it was either routed to the depot or a siding. At Manchester Piccadilly it was normally sent to the Midland Engine Siding (between the fast and slow lines outside Mayfield) and then in due course reversed back onto a new train which had arrived later. Some care needed to be taken with the Class 87 which could not be used on vacuum-braked stock. The coaches were only taken to the depot at the end of the day, normally.
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Following on from jfollows excellent reply: Generally (at the beginning and end of the day) the coaches would have been hauled to/from the carriage depots by an electric loco, particularly at places like Euston and Manchester where the depots were a reasonable distance from the station. If it was a short distance a diesel shunter might have been used - most large stations had a shunting loco or two for 'station pilot' duties.
It followed the train at a scarily rapid pace. If the train had made an emergency brake application it would have got extremely messy.
When I was a regular user of Manchester Piccadilly 1973-1980, this crossover was used to release the diesel engine from the Harwich Boat Train to run round its stock and take it back again later in the day, see #8 . What is telling in retrospect was that at that time there was no problem dedicating two platforms to this one train for a period of time - the coaches themselves had exclusive use of platform 5 for two hours but also platform 6 had to be free for some of this time to allow the crossover to be used.
I remember that crossover near the buffers at Piccadilly 5/6, and wondered at the time whether it ever got used.
Not being familiar with Man Picc, this is only a question/observation; was the said crossover 'wired'?
It's not an unreasonable question to which I don't know the answer definitely, but I think it extremely likely that it was wired and I continue under that assumption unless and until someone tells me they know otherwise!
During my era for sure.
https://www.reddit.com/r/uktrains/comments/qwvgtd/a_switch_with_no_practical_use_between_platforms/ Here's some pictures, It's quite hard to see if the wire is there or not! Sectional Appendix doesn't say the crossover isn't electrified.
For what it's worth, my
If you zoom into the photo, you can see there is double OHLE wire at the buffer stop end (e.g. two sets of dropper wires side-by-side) but a single wire further along after the crossover. The extra wire will be the one that curves away over the crossover.
I did once see the crossover used to release an electric loco during the push pull era, the train stopped short and the loco ran round and coupled to the DVT. Presumably there was a fault on the DVT and no other electric loco readily to hand.
If it wasn't sensible for the train engine to propel the whole train out to a loop and then run it round (as Falcon1200 describes at Glasgow Central), the obvious shunting manoeuvre would be the shunt loco pulling the coaches out then pushing them into a different platform, followed a little while later by the train loco doing the same basic manoeuvre.
. I lived in Manchester area in 1978/79 - there was a class 76 hauled evening parcels train through Guide Bridge I saw a few times, not sure if that went as far as Piccadilly?If it wasn't wired, would there have been a sign to warn drivers of electric locos not to proceed across it?
So how did the Class 76 and 77s manage with Sheffield trains in Platforms 1 to (?3?)?If it wasn't sensible for the train engine to propel the whole train out to a loop and then run it round (as Falcon1200 describes at Glasgow Central), the obvious shunting manoeuvre would be the shunt loco pulling the coaches out then pushing them into a different platform, followed a little while later by the train loco doing the same basic manoeuvre.
Of course up to the point when the Woodhead line was closed and Manchester to Glossop/Hadfield converted to 25kV AC, Piccadilly had both 1500V DC (east side) and 25kV AC (west side) OHLE - just to add to the complications of operating electric traction in the station area
Almost certainly - something like 'Electric trains no access to...'
The evening parcels train would have come from Mayfield or Piccadilly platform 11, so would have had to change loco later, or it was 3E13 20:10 Parcels Bolton-Peterborough which changed to electric loco at Dewsnap Sidings.Of course up to the point when the Woodhead line was closed and Manchester to Glossop/Hadfield converted to 25kV AC, Piccadilly had both 1500V DC (east side) and 25kV AC (west side) OHLE - just to add to the complications of operating electric traction in the station area
East Engine Siding, so could have been a similar top-and-tail arrangement as applied to AC locomotives later (was before my time).
My previous answer described an up parcels train but I don't see any down parcels trains in the timetable I have to hand during the evenings.
It could easily have been empty parcels or newspaper vans for I saw at Guide Bridge - I remember it because by that time class 76 workings that far west - other than to get to Reddish TMD - weren't very common in my experience. (The coal trains to Fiddlers Ferry changed traction to/from diesel further east and then went via Stockport Tiviot Dale). So it might have only gone as far as Ashburys maybe?
Looking at the 1979 WTT for the Guide Bridge area, two trains in the evening heading from there towards Manchester were:-
I guess it's possible - it was over 40 years ago and I don't have photographs or notes from then, and I only spent a few evenings at Guide Bridge in the 15 months I lived in Manchester (I was much more likely to be whiling away an evening on the end of a platform at Piccadilly or Victoria - much less of a trek from where I lived
). I just have an image in my memory of a 76 hauling vans, one of the rare occasions I saw a 76 hauling anything at all.For several years from '74 there were four daytime Birmingham trains (incl. just one from/to Bristol) and one of these had a long turn round (14.25/17.45) so required to vacate the platform. I recall seeing that propelled to the loops to stable. The Glasgow Central Platform Arrangements book for 1974 shows that loco then worked 16.10 Euston and another loco (off the 15.45 arrival from Euston) then shunted out to propel the train back into the station and worked the 17.45 departure.
It perhaps changed over the years but in '74 at least the Glasgow Central station pilots were diesels - mainly dual brake class 27s, perhaps because in addition to taking WCML stock to /from Larkfield CS (was Larkfield wired?) they also tripped stock to Bellahouston
