Elizabeth Line “Underground Stations” - Rail Staff Travel Passes validity

[ribblebarn]

I have recently tried to use a Rail Staff Pass (Safeguarded Retired ex BR) at Tottenham Court Road on Elizabeth line to travel to Ealing. Told categorically they are not valid at the Underground Stations. First trip to London for a few years. Checked before on Rail Delivery Group site and it said Staff Pass with box completed valid on all sections of Elizabeth Line. Does anyone know the correct rules on this?

 

[steamybrian]

I have just consulted with "Penfriend" magazine (Autumn/Winter issue page 19) issued to railway pensioners: which states ......." If using a Status Pass or Staff Travel Card for free travel then you can board or alight at any station on the Elizabeth Line as normal...."

 

[Bill EWS]

If you travel from reading you simply get on a Elizabeth Line train to the end of the line. However taking a fast train to Paddington I found that I couldn't get through the E Line barrier and had to use my Visa card. There was no staff at the barrier. Not sure how much I was charged from Paddington to Liverpool Street! I had to do the same on the return journey when changing at Liverpool Street Stn for Paddington.

 

[Benjwri]

As mentioned above it should’ve been allowed, detailed on the RDG site here:

Gold Status Passes, Silver Status Passes and dated Staff Travel Cards are valid across the whole of the Elizabeth line.

 

[Taunton]

The whole Elizabeth Line validity is a real mix-up. Freedom Pass holders have similar.

- Is it valid outside London, say Maidenhead to Slough, from 0900 (TfL services) or 0930 (National Rail)?
- Although valid at the barriers at both, is it valid on a green GWR train, doing the same as a purple Elizabeth train?
- Do Freedom passes ever work the barriers outside London, or do you always need to be let through manually?

 

[Benjwri]

The whole Elizabeth Line validity is a real mix-up. Freedom Pass holders have similar.

The Freedom Pass Travel Map is pretty clear on these issues.

Is it valid outside London, say Maidenhead to Slough, from 0900 (TfL services) or 0930 (National Rail)?

After 0900, but only on Elizabeth Line services.

is it valid on a green GWR train, doing the same as a purple Elizabeth train?

As long as you don't travel past West Drayton (End of Zone 6), yes, past West Drayton you can only use the Elizabeth Line.

Freedom Pass treats National Rail as totally separate from the Elizabeth Line, and therefore the individual rules apply. Attached below is the current version of the map from the link above.

 

[matt_world2004]

Aren't blue status passes only valid on certain sections of the line depending on what region issued them? Eg eastern region is only valid to whitechapel

 

[Watershed]

I have recently tried to use a Rail Staff Pass (Safeguarded Retired ex BR) at Tottenham Court Road on Elizabeth line to travel to Ealing. Told categorically they are not valid at the Underground Stations. First trip to London for a few years. Checked before on Rail Delivery Group site and it said Staff Pass with box completed valid on all sections of Elizabeth Line. Does anyone know the correct rules on this?

By rail staff pass, I assume you mean a pass entitled Staff Travel Card with boxes? If so, when correctly dated, this is valid on all National Rail operators, including Elizabeth Line services throughout the 'core'. The RSTL Safeguarded "Where Can I Go" guide refers (pp. 44, 61, 68).

It is, in fact, also valid for travel on certain Underground lines, as well as for entry and exit at certain Underground stations (see this map - note, it was produced before the Elizabeth Line 'core' opened, so doesn't reflect its opening). Therefore the claim that it's categorically not valid at Underground stations couldn't be further from the truth!

You should raise a complaint with TfL regarding the incorrect rejection. Sadly this isn't the first time we've heard of Underground staff at EL 'core' stations making nonsensical claims about ticket validity, as they can't seem to get their head around the notion that a National Rail ticket/pass might be valid at their Underground station.

If you bought a new ticket, or used PAYG Oyster/contactless to travel instead, you would also be entitled to claim back the cost of this, and should enclose details of this with your complaint to TfL.

Aren't blue status passes only valid on certain sections of the line depending on what region issued them? Eg eastern region is only valid to whitechapel

Yes, regional blue status passes are only valid on certain sections of the Core:

• Eastern Region – between Shenfield and Farringdon, and London Liverpool Street and Custom House for Excel
• London Midland Region – between Paddington and Whitechapel
• Southern Region – between Abbey Wood and Farringdon
• Western Region – between Reading, Heathrow and London Paddington
• Scottish Region – not valid

 

[ribblebarn]

I have recently tried to use a Rail Staff Pass (Safeguarded Retired ex BR) at Tottenham Court Road on Elizabeth line to travel to Ealing. Told categorically they are not valid at the Underground Stations. First trip to London for a few years. Checked before on Rail Delivery Group site and it said Staff Pass with box completed valid on all sections of Elizabeth Line. Does anyone know the correct rules on this?

Thank you for responses. The staff at Tottenham Court Road were quite robust about the Staff Travel Card with dated box not being valid. The one on the return journey was quite rude saying that I should of learned from my refusal on the outward journey that I was wrong. I have submitted a complaint to TfL.

 

[maniacmartin]

I think the problem is they think it is an "Underground station". A better way of thinking of it from a ticketting perspecitive is a station with an underground line and a Crossrail (NR) line*, that happens to be managed by the Underground. I've had similar issues on the East London Line (London Overground) at Canada Water in the past.

* it doesn't help that TfL is trying to have their cake and eat it with the Elizabeth line, trying to classify it as national rail only when it suits them. No wonder gateline staff are confused

 

[Taunton]

I think the problem is they think it is an "Underground station". A better way of thinking of it from a ticketting perspecitive is a station with an underground line and a Crossrail (NR) line*, that happens to be managed by the Underground. I've had similar issues on the East London Line (London Overground) at Canada Water in the past.

And the converse with the TOC staff along the GWML, who continue to insist, as their gatelines are programmed, that TfL Freedom Passes are only valid after 0930.

 

[RJ]

Thank you for responses. The staff at Tottenham Court Road were quite robust about the Staff Travel Card with dated box not being valid. The one on the return journey was quite rude saying that I should of learned from my refusal on the outward journey that I was wrong. I have submitted a complaint to TfL.

A dated box is categorically valid on the Elizabeth Line. If TfL pick this up then in all likelihood a brief will go out to clarify that it is valid. Hopefully going forward you will be ok.

 

[74A]

And the converse with the TOC staff along the GWML, who continue to insist, as their gatelines are programmed, that TfL Freedom Passes are only valid after 0930.

According to the London Councils validity map that is correct for TOC services. After 0900 only if you are travelling on the Elizabeth line

 

[Benjwri]

After 0900 only if you are travelling on the Elizabeth line

Past West Drayton (End of Zone 6), which is where all the GWR managed stations are, the Freedom Pass is forbidden on GWR services, so anyone using it should by definition be using the Elizabeth Line, and therefore be valid from 0900.

 

[Haywain]

- Is it valid outside London, say Maidenhead to Slough, from 0900 (TfL services) or 0930 (National Rail)?

After 09:30 it would only be valid on GWR with an accompanying ticket from West Drayton or Boundary Zone 6.

- Although valid at the barriers at both, is it valid on a green GWR train, doing the same as a purple Elizabeth train?

See above.

- Do Freedom passes ever work the barriers outside London, or do you always need to be let through manually?

The industry Knowledgebase states:

Gatelines

Please note that the Freedom Pass is based on Oyster Card and will only operate gates where Oyster is enabled. Freedom Passes will not open gates at the following stations:

• Iver
• Langley
• Slough
• Burnham
• Taplow
• Maidenhead
• Twyford
• Reading

Past West Drayton (End of Zone 6), which is where all the GWR managed stations are, the Freedom Pass is forbidden on GWR services, so anyone using it should by definition be using the Elizabeth Line, and therefore be valid from 0900.

It's not valid on its own but may be used with an accompanying ticket from West Drayton or Boundary Zone 6.

 

[Benjwri]

It's not valid on its own but may be used with an accompanying ticket from West Drayton or Boundary Zone 6.

Yes, although then you would present the accompanying ticket, rather than the freedom pass, at the barriers. I also assume you would be able to travel before 09:30 as long as the ticket was valid then and it was past 09:30 when you reached the Zone 6 boundary?

 

[Haywain]

Yes, although then you would present the accompanying ticket, rather than the freedom pass, at the barriers.

If you were being checked on a non-stop train you would need to present both.

I also assume you would be able to travel before 09:30 as long as the ticket was valid then and it was past 09:30 when you reached the Zone 6 boundary?

You mean travelling in to London? I suppose so, although you'd have to be certain it wouldn't reach the boundary before 09:30. But that's an edge where in many cases there'd be minimal saving in time or money to be made anyway.

 

[Benjwri]

If you were being checked on a non-stop train you would need to present both.

True, was referring to at the gateline.

You mean travelling in to London? I suppose so, although you'd have to be certain it wouldn't reach the boundary before 09:30. But that's an edge where in many cases there'd be minimal saving in time or money to be made anyway.

Presumably not a hugely edge case in that someone needed to get into London on a Freedom Pass before say 10. The saving isn't that little, an anytime Reading to London ticket is £27.60, compared to a Reading to West Drayton anytime ticket at £15.60, a £12 saving is quite a big saving on £15.

 

[Haywain]

Presumably not a hugely edge case in that someone needed to get into London on a Freedom Pass before say 10. The saving isn't that little, an anytime Reading to London ticket is £27.60, compared to a Reading to West Drayton anytime ticket at £15.60, a £12 saving is quite a big saving on £15.

But there are only two applicable trains that I can see and they would save 10 minutes at best. If someone genuinely needed to be in Paddington before 1000, they might well feel that using one of those two trains is really limiting the options available.

 

[ribblebarn]

Eventually a response from TfL re: problem using Rail Staff Travel Card at Tottenham Court Road Elizabeth line barrier:

Thanks for your reply of 12 December on this matter.

I will make the management team responsible for Tottenham Court Road station aware of the matter.

Although there is room for confusion given London Underground services also run from this station, if the Elizabeth line is mentioned, there should be no issue when being let through the gate line.

I do understand that the Elizabeth line is part of the National rail network and so your pass is valid to use there. And as you say, retired employees are also not required to carry photo ID support.

 

[mgcm]

I had the same problem at Kings Cross in October 22, fortunately i had downloaded the RST advice which was on the TfL, to contradict the advice TfL had issued internally to their staff. Also I've long been told that passes are valid between BR stations that USE TfL lines.

 

[CE142]

If someone refused my dated box on the Lizzie Line I would do one of two things, request that the BTP attend as I am blatently trying to eff it, or if they refused to request the BTP to attend simply push through the barriers.

 

[AlterEgo]

If someone refused my dated box on the Lizzie Line I would do one of two things, request that the BTP attend as I am blatently trying to eff it, or if they refused to request the BTP to attend simply push through the barriers.

The latter sounds like a good way of not worrying about dated boxes ever again to me.

 

[matt_world2004]

Disabled persons freedom passes as valid on the Elizabeth line at any time as well as any tfl service and any interavailable route (such as between fenchurch Street and Upminster on c2c)

 

[island]

If someone refused my dated box on the Lizzie Line I would do one of two things, request that the BTP attend as I am blatently trying to eff it, or if they refused to request the BTP to attend simply push through the barriers.

The latter is an offence.

 

[Surreytraveller]

The latter is an offence.

Being refused to be let through the barriers is an offence

 

[Watershed]

Being refused to be let through the barriers is an offence

Unfortunately it isn't. It's a very one-sided position.

 

[matt_world2004]

Being refused to be let through the barriers is an offence

What offence is that then

 

[Surreytraveller]

What offence is that then

False imprisonment

Unfortunately it isn't. It's a very one-sided position.

If you have a valid ticket, and you are being detained, how can that not be an offence?

 

[306024]

The latter sounds like a good way of not worrying about dated boxes ever again to me.

Indeed. For balance I’ve never had a dated box refused on the Liz line. But I have a copy of the relevant section of the staff travel guide ready to show on my phone to any barrier staff who may have not been trained correctly. Calling for the BTP and accusations of false imprisonment could perhaps be described as a slight overreaction?