thomasheywood
Member
Tonight the Elizabeth line is heavily impacted due to no crew being available, is this connected to the planned industrial action or is something else going on?
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Elizabeth line cancellations due to ‘shortage of crew’
- Thread starter thomasheywood
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thomasheywood
Member
I’ll be honest, this seems to me to be an orchestrated attempt to cause as much disruption as possible, the train cancellations are not random, 2 trains in a row are cancelled, followed by an hour or so of good service…
It's been terrible in the evenings for weeks.
Just to really give the paying punters the obligatory one fingered salute, TfL or MTR or whoever it is make like everything is absolutely fine via, presumably, the disgraceful practice of p-coding.
TfL Elizabeth Line online status widget: not a single word.
I'll concede that having the platform displays in the core saying "Cancelled: Cancelled: Cancelled" wouldn't be practically useful but it would be honest.
Just to really give the paying punters the obligatory one fingered salute, TfL or MTR or whoever it is make like everything is absolutely fine via, presumably, the disgraceful practice of p-coding.
TfL Elizabeth Line online status widget: not a single word.
I'll concede that having the platform displays in the core saying "Cancelled: Cancelled: Cancelled" wouldn't be practically useful but it would be honest.
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weeklycommuter
Member
- Joined
- 2 Feb 2019
- Messages
- 619
Why is the Elizabeth Line service dependent on rest day working?
It isn’t as a rule. However at some times of year, notably School holidays, leave is at it’s maximum, and therefore there is less spare / standby cover to pick up short notice absence.
You can bet your last penny it will be the same the week before Easter.
Even with RDW, GWR had been very creative with covering work this week and while there have been some unfortunate cancellations they really have been using their staff as best as possible
as have most operators, including MTR.
How is this:
Recenttraintimes: Very Many Cancellations on the Elizabeth Line in the Evenings for Weeks
explained by school holidays? It's actually not as bad this week.
It's been going on pretty consistently for a month. My anecdata is being caught up in it over and over again, but that is actual data data!
Ironically it's not as bad this week, at least for that example. Though GWR cancelled the 2148 to Bristol Parkway due to no driver (presumably) so I'm an hour+ late anyway. Thus, normality reigns
.
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My apologies. Fixed (hopefully)
If not, just look quickly at Ealing Broadway to Paddington since about 27th Jan between 20:00 and 00:00 Mon-Fri. I see ~100 out of ~600 total services cancelled over that entire period. That is, ~17% of all such services cancelled over the last 20 weekdays.
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Fair enough, you can observe, literally by visual inspection, periods where something specific presumably went really wrong.
However, expand out to the last 3 months, all other things being equal, and it's literally visible:
Same thing, but 90 Days...
Prior to 27/1 occasional disaster plus random holes here and there. Post 27/1, big step change downhill generally.
Bit odd, if the RDW agreement ended around Christmas, but something has changed substantially for the worse.
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Things are pretty much all RT or cancelled. And where they are cancelled, you can see A LOT are that day, most of which is down to poor reliability of the GWML in the last few years. There have been several big incidents recently. Nothing has changed specifically. With a RDW driver strike, the ability to recover the service is also much harder of course because any spare driver would be utilised for booked jobs and allocated at the start of day. So the impact of an incident is perhaps worse than it would have been otherwise.
If you looked at the reliability between say Canary Wharf and Ealing Broadway and Canary Wharf and Paddington, you'd see a much higher reliability rating for the latter.
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Appreciate that back and forth with data is going to get tedious quickly, but given that a lot of the disruption I've experienced has been in the core getting from central London to Paddington I looked for Tottenham Ct Rd, and it's essentially the same. Yes, obvious incidents, but aside from that, loads of cancellations splattered about all over the place, most nights, for weeks.
Seemingly every other time I turn up at Farringdon now there's far more people than I'd expect on the platform at that time of day and the reason for this becomes rapidly apparent upon looking at the platform displays. Big gaps that shouldn't be there.
Am I misinterpreting this data?
Tottenham Ct Rd to Paddington, Evenings, 4 weeks
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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There are two elements in the table here:
1. A genuinely bad month of large incidents which is just bad luck (see how the last week has been devoid of this). This leads to big gaps and "waves" of disruption (with the aforementioned difficulties in recovering service).
2. Some seemingly other cancellations which is likely gaps in driver coverage. Late turns at most TOCs are generally less "popular" and therefore more reliant on RDW coverage so subject to cancellation.
The Elizabeth Line being a metro operator you'll note there's no middle ground - services generally run on time or are cancelled. The average lateness is very small.
NSEWonderer
Established Member
Looks like today is no different, some already Pcoded cancels. Plumstead Depot already has 5 units in so that leaves 3 to arrive back and the last Abbey-Wood bound train at the moment is the 00:06 from Heathrow T5.
It would be interesting to see how long TFL lets the RDW agreement issue continue.
It would be interesting to see how long TFL lets the RDW agreement issue continue.
iphone76
Member
Not a good day today. The last train from Liverpool Street down to Shenfield has been p-coded too and replace by a bus.
Interesting to see how many services were p-coded in the period 11. From a base of pretty much zero before all this started.
Link to ORR website showing period 11 p-coded data. (I hope that is ok re the forum rules. )
Edited p coded figure in my post.
Interesting to see how many services were p-coded in the period 11. From a base of pretty much zero before all this started.
Link to ORR website showing period 11 p-coded data. (I hope that is ok re the forum rules. )
P-coded cancellations | ORR Data Portal
dataportal.orr.gov.uk
Edited p coded figure in my post.
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There appears to be no ability to move diagrams around to cover either. Regularly last/first trains to destinations are being cancelled. Evidently TfL and MTR do not appear too concerned at this time - just like how the strikes are still on.
However the data does not show that at all. There were an additional 1.1% cancellations when taking into account P-coding.
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NSEWonderer
Established Member
One wonders how long TFL will sit on their hands and do nothing.
I can see MTR not bothering plus I'm not too sure how it would work if they suddenly sorted a deal before GTS takeover and if thats not already been accounted for as a possibility before the takeover. One wonders if GTS will be taking over a mess for their first year, after all its TFL that has the final say still on any deal even if MTR or be it GTS were to agree and offer with Employees.
boiledbeans2
Member
Awful Saturday (22/2) night service
EB departures from Bond Street
22:30 Abbey Wood On Time
22:35 Shenfield On Time
22:40 Abbey Wood Cancelled
22:45 Shenfield Cancelled
22:51 Abbey Wood Cancelled
22:55 Shenfield On Time
23:00 Abbey Wood On Time
No EB trains from 2235 to 2255.
No Abbey Wood trains from 2230 to 2300.
The last 2 Abbey Wood trains at 2340 and 0002 were also cancelled.
EB departures from Bond Street
22:30 Abbey Wood On Time
22:35 Shenfield On Time
22:40 Abbey Wood Cancelled
22:45 Shenfield Cancelled
22:51 Abbey Wood Cancelled
22:55 Shenfield On Time
23:00 Abbey Wood On Time
No EB trains from 2235 to 2255.
No Abbey Wood trains from 2230 to 2300.
The last 2 Abbey Wood trains at 2340 and 0002 were also cancelled.
Does this lower "popularity" mean that (without RDW) a lower proportion of late turns are allocated train crew than those for the rest of the day?
If not, why does this lower "popularity" lead to late trains being disproportionately affected?
I’m sure it’s the case of you’re more likely to book a late turn as Annual Leave rather than an early because you can still have a social aspect after an early shift. Combine this with sicknesses being covered by the spare turn means that the vacant lates are less likely to be covered.
whoosh
Established Member
- Joined
- 3 Sep 2008
- Messages
- 1,629
MTR obviously taking it on the chin before their contract is up.
The delay and cancellation penalties to TfL are whopping.
The delay and cancellation penalties to TfL are whopping.
I had heard something about the penalties for MTR already having been maxed out for the specific period in question, not sure if this is a rumour or not
Hence the lack of urgency to sort almost anything and the plan for the contract to basically coast for 3 months until GTS get started. Depends how much pressure TfL gets put under and how quickly as to whether this will actually happen.
NSEWonderer
Established Member
Much of the poor PPM can be attributed to Network Rail Western of course, to which TfL have only limited influence.
NSEWonderer
Established Member
Indeed. Which is why I believe the period cap was set in the concession else it would be a tough gig for anyone to take up the concession ontop of PPM that is actually in their control.