Elizabeth line: Commuters say service 'not what was promised'

[nlogax]

Having used it repeatedly through the core and on a few through services within zones 1 to 6 mostly during the peak it’s obvious that the EL delivers a truly excellent service which is pretty much what was promised.

Of course local newcomers won’t know be familiar with the ‘before times’ but longer term suburbanites appear to have very short term memories.

 

[Taunton]

How much has it taken from other services? Are the tube lines quieter?

The day this was written I took the Jubilee westbound from Canary Wharf to Westminster at precisely 1730. It took until London Bridge before even all the seats were occupied. Certainly surprised me.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

I’ve used it on and off. As a non-railway colleague said yesterday; the trains are so big and nicer than the tube (the central line being his comparator).

For me the sense that we are almost Parisian or German with main line trains going into tunnels beneath the city continues to amaze, and I hope it does for a long time. Stratford in the peak with Elizabeth Line, Central Line across the platform is a thing of wonder.

 

[Purple Train]

It's not perfect, but that's nowhere near enough grounds to complain.

 

[FGW_Lad]

Have no choice to use it as my local station is only served by Elizabeth line services. Can’t say I’ve had a major issue with it apart from the odd delays here and there in morning peaks. For direct access to the West End and Canary Wharf it is an absolute game changer.

 

[Taunton]

Much of the commentary seems to be about the service on the GWML side being overcrowded in the morning inwards peak. Presumably it wouldn't be the end of the universe to start a few of the Paddington starters back from West Drayton or Slough to address this.

There still seem to be freight trains run down the Relief lines in the high peak. The old Southern Region long had a ban on freight services in the commuter area in the morning and evening peaks, and schedules worked around this. The GWML previously never needed to do this sort of thing, but it seems like a straightforward first fix for a capacity crunch.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I see, I didn’t think you were referring to calling patterns. It could be a bit clearer with maybe a “+” like the Oveground has. However, has this really caught out that many people who have ended up at Southall or Ealing? I don’t think it has. The CIS in the core specifically states where the train is not stopping at; this has its own issues but in this regard is beneficial. Also these calling patterns have been going on for years, way before TfL took over the service.

Indeed,so, but I can imagine the good folk of Hanwell, West Ealing and Acton might feel short-changed with only 4tph - no better than before.

 

[camflyer]

I did Paddington to Liverpool Street earlier today (Sunday) and while it wasn't busy, it seemed that almost everyone had a suitcase with them. While this is manageable at weekends, I'm sure it must cause problems at peak times during week.

 

[AM9]

Indeed,so, but I can imagine the good folk of Hanwell, West Ealing and Acton might feel short-changed with only 4tph - no better than before.

Apart from much more room than an overcrowded Turbo. For many travellers, - in the south-east especially, their travelling is getting steadily worse as this forum can confirm.

 

[island]

Most likely judging by the amount of suitcases visible on almost every train

Good. HEX has benefited unreasonably for years from being able to charge sky-high fares for a decidedly middling service.

 

[Snow1964]

Airport users seem in part to be the Gatwick Express problem again. People avoid the premium price option so leaving spare capacity which might overall be better utilised.

A quick search of internet, how to get from Gatwick to central London, or just about any holiday guidebook on London makes it rather obvious.

Basically they all say costs lot more, is less frequent, and doesn't really get you there any faster. So take cheaper option.

I suspect similar entries and guidebooks for Heathrow are being updated to say avoid Heathrow Express as it doesn't take you to centre of London unlike Elizabeth line. Why pay extra then change, and by time you have changed end up with similar journey time.

 

[JonathanH]

For many travellers, - in the south-east especially, their travelling is getting steadily worse as this forum can confirm.

The 'in the south-east especially' bit really isn't needed in that sentence.

The south east really hasn't been harder hit than the rest of the country, and a lot of the south-east woe is directly related to longer distance users being very comfortable to abandon the railway.

Indeed,so, but I can imagine the good folk of Hanwell, West Ealing and Acton might feel short-changed with only 4tph - no better than before.

They now have direct journeys into Central London that they didn't have before. They didn't always have 4tph in any case. Would it have been better if the 2tph to 4tph uplift had been held back until through running started?

 

[matt_world2004]

Indeed,so, but I can imagine the good folk of Hanwell, West Ealing and Acton might feel short-changed with only 4tph - no better than before.

They used to only get 2 tph and it's going upto 6 trains per hour

One thing I have noticed with the Elizabeth line is that from 9:00pm trains seem to serve a mixture of the mainline terminal and the tunnel at Paddington. It appears the Heathrow trains serve the mainline terminal while reading trains serve the tunnel

 

[bicbasher]

They used to only get 2 tph and it's going upto 6 trains per hour

One thing I have noticed with the Elizabeth line is that from 9:00pm trains seem to serve a mixture of the mainline terminal and the tunnel at Paddington. It appears the Heathrow trains serve the mainline terminal while reading trains serve the tunnel

The first Paddington terminator from Ealing Broadway is the 2139 from Heathrow Terminal 4. It's then 2tph from T4 that go to Paddington only, the T5, Reading and Maidenhead services that continue during the late evening, so 6tph through the core from the GWML until roughly 2330. The last through service to Abbey Wood is the 2344 at Ealing Broadway from Reading with the last T5 and Maidenhead services going into Paddington mainline. (Final service on EL is a T4 inbound).

 

[matt_world2004]

The first Paddington terminator from Ealing Broadway is the 2139 from Heathrow Terminal 4. It's then 2tph from T4 that go to Paddington only, the T5, Reading and Maidenhead services that continue during the late evening, so 6tph through the core from the GWML until roughly 2330. The last through service to Abbey Wood is the 2344 at Ealing Broadway from Reading with the last T5 and Maidenhead services going into Paddington mainline. (Final service on EL is a T4 inbound).

It's a bizarre anomaly and it would be better to have all trains go via the tunnel even if they terminate at paddington

 

[PeterC]

It's a bizarre anomaly and it would be better to have all trains go via the tunnel even if they terminate at paddington

Can they terminate a eastbound train at the low level platforms?

 

[matt_world2004]

Can they terminate a eastbound train at the low level platforms?

I don't see why they can't they are bidirectional

 

[bicbasher]

Surely the reason for terminating at Paddington NR is for operational convenience that late at night? If you start sending the Paddington terminators to the XR station, you could end up with issues if it all goes tits up sending then back up to Westbourne Park which could affect the through services.

Remember, the automated turnaround still isn't fully ready yet either!

 

[Snow1964]

Can they terminate a eastbound train at the low level platforms?

Messy, as either have to cross to westbound at Subway junction, or reverse back to Subway junction to regain westbound, or continue towards Farringdon and the reverse through trailing crossover back towards Tottenham Court Road.

An alternative would be to empty the train at Acton, then can reverse into the depot at Ladbroke Grove area

All are fully signalled, but all will hold up other services whilst it is done.

 

[Horizon22]

Indeed,so, but I can imagine the good folk of Hanwell, West Ealing and Acton might feel short-changed with only 4tph - no better than before.

Acton used to have 2tph and no Sunday service. They'll all get 6tph after May.

Can they terminate a eastbound train at the low level platforms?

Theoretically yes, but its bit of an operational mess. If you do so, you'd have to lock out the train, driver change ends, then reverse outwards. This would obviously prevent any Eastbound service (to Shenfield) departing in that time period which would probably be about 10 minutes. Much easier to do all of that at a terminal station/platform.

I did Paddington to Liverpool Street earlier today (Sunday) and while it wasn't busy, it seemed that almost everyone had a suitcase with them. While this is manageable at weekends, I'm sure it must cause problems at peak times during week.

Most people aren't travelling with a suitcase at peak times.

 

[Jozhua]

I wonder if they are going to need to get the orders in to extend the trains - I understand the platforms have space for about two more carriages in the future.

The other issue is people just getting on near where the exits are - eventually people will learn to arrive a couple of minutes earlier so they can get to the middle and improve their chances of bagging a seat, or at least a good standing spot!

Good to see high passenger numbers. Maybe the theory that everyone was working from home now has been overstated.

I'm sure if passenger numbers were lower than expected people would be complaining that the EL was a waste of money.

Better get on building CR3 and the other TfL projects if the demand is there.

I agree it's good to see it is well used and will be a good indication to gov that rail investment is worth it!

My main question is how the western section is going to cope with HS2; given I believe it is going to terminate at OOC for some time?

Looks like things are progressing quite well with HS2 OOC-Euston. The OOC situation will likely be a very temporary thing to get the first leg open as soon as possible between London and Birmingham. Once more services are able to run, then it will be open all the way to Euston.

 

[334033]

Must be quicker just to walk to the Bank from Liverpool Street via the surface route.

Or from Moorgate if you are that end of the EL train

For where I go specifically, and I have walked from both before, it is not quicker to walk from Liverpool Street or Moorgate. For me personally, changing between the EL and Central Line at Liverpool Street when I'm going to Bank is so much more of a hassle compared to changing between EL and Northern Line, particularly during the peaks.

 

[johntea]

I'm visiting London tomorrow, what Elizabeth Line journey(s) would pass a couple of hours and be the best way to 'experience' it?

Got something on in Hammersmith until the afternoon so would be starting from there (obviously via a connection from a Underground service!)

 

[Techniquest]

I'm visiting London tomorrow, what Elizabeth Line journey(s) would pass a couple of hours and be the best way to 'experience' it?

Got something on in Hammersmith until the afternoon so would be starting from there (obviously via a connection from a Underground service!)

Personally, I'd be on a H&C up to Paddington, transfer to the XR platforms and have a journey out to Abbey Wood.

 

[Jimini]

Personally, I'd be on a H&C up to Paddington, transfer to the XR platforms and have a journey out to Abbey Wood.

Agreed -- do the full length of the new infrastructure. If time allows, maybe do the Whitechapel change as well so you get to try out the Pudding Mill Lane portal / Stratford bit as well.

 

[bicbasher]

Personally I'd go on the District to Ealing Broadway to change for the XR to Abbey Wood which will let you see the Royal Oak portal into Paddington, on your return if time allows, change at Whitechapel and do the bit up to Stratford.

 

[Techniquest]

Agreed -- do the full length of the new infrastructure. If time allows, maybe do the Whitechapel change as well so you get to try out the Pudding Mill Lane portal / Stratford bit as well.

Maybe alight at a couple of the core stations to marvel at the architecture too? Those stations are a work of genius, how they got it all built in such a busy place, it's worth stopping for a brief period just to take it all in!

 

[NorthKent1989]

Since Southeastern fouled up their timetable I’ve often used the Liz line on weekends, sometimes from Woolwich but other times I get the Jubilee to Canary Wharf from North Greenwich and do the long interchange there, and other than some delays it’s still much better than using Southeastern of late.

Other times I get the Jubilee to and from town and I’m shocked at how lightly loaded it is now, pretty much empties out by Southwark and there’s plenty of seats by Bermondsey, so the Elizabeth line has soaked up a large portion of EC Jubilee line passenger’s.

 

[jon0844]

As I said before, I wonder if the fact the line has taken so many passengers away from other lines will naturally sort itself out over time - as some people will opt to take the old way to enjoy more space.

 

[Taunton]

Most people aren't travelling with a suitcase at peak times.

Actually ... on this line they are. The morning peak coincides with the peak inward flow, from all directions, of the long haul (ie more big luggage) flights into Heathrow. The issues seem to be mainly the inner west stations who find the incoming trains already filled by such passengers. Even in the peak arrival time there's only a 30 minute Elizabeth service from the main BA terminal 5, so the train can pretty much fill up there and at the terminal 2/3 stop.