Elizabeth Line: Passengers confused over whether it's a tube or train line and what should be done about it.

[infobleep]

Apologise if this is the wrong section.

There was an article in the Evening Standard about whether the Elizabeth Line is a tube or train line.

This is what the TfL spokesman said when asked by the Standard whether the Elizabeth line was classed as a Tube line or a train line. it was

an addition to the transport network and a TfL mode of transport, as opposed to a Tube line”.

So does this mean when you travel on the Elizabeth Line you should be saying I'm traveling on the TfL mode of transport?

Taking it literally, it doesn't really explain the mode of transport very well and is confusing, given people think of buses and trams as being TfL.

Talking of confusion they also had this quote in the news report

TfL’s customer director Emma Strain admits the situation is confusing. She said: “Some people think it’s a Tube line. Some think it isn’t a Tube line. Both of them are confused. It is a tricky one for us.”

“People do get confused as to how our fares work,” she said. “I find, from a customer perspective, this differentiation between ‘What is a Tube and what is a train?’ is really complicated for people who are not embedded in our organisation, or not what I would call a ‘transport enthusiast’.”

They forgot to mention that even some staff embedded in their organisation are also confused but they wouldn't want to admit that publicly.

The full article is at https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...be-train-fare-capping-confusion-b1112507.html

 

[hkstudent]

Apologise if this is the wrong section.

There was an article in the Evening Standard about whether the Elizabeth Line is a tube or train line.

This is what the TfL spokesman said when asked by the Standard whether the Elizabeth line was classed as a Tube line or a train line. it was


So does this mean when you travel on the Elizabeth Line you should be saying I'm traveling on the TfL mode of transport?

Taking it literally, it doesn't really explain the mode of transport very well and is confusing, given people think of buses and trams as being TfL.

Talking of confusion they also had this quote in the news report

They forgot to mention that even some staff embedded in their organisation are also confused but they wouldn't want to admit that publicly.

The full article is at https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...be-train-fare-capping-confusion-b1112507.html

What is means is that, you shall say I am travelling on the Elizabeth Line, just like Overground and DLR, instead of the tube.

Simple answer is: lizze line is not a tube but a train, but not a train as DfT TOCs train.

The same line of response was used here last year from someone more high up

Crossrail: Why Elizabeth line isn’t a new Tube line, according to TfL

www.standard.co.uk

 

[superalbs]

It is a very confusing situation, not helped by the goofy name they chose.

 

[Bedpan]

I can see why they called it the Elizabeth Line but it's a pity that they didn't just stick to Crossrail. Then we would have had Thameslink (I can't believe anyone would consider Thameslink to be a tube line) from north to south and Crossrail from east to west. Further, have Crossrail as a separate TOC like Thameslink, or then there might be the opportunity in the future to extend it further (say Oxford or Chelmsford/Colchester and maybe other routes as has been the case with Thameslink. Part of the problem may be the TfL roundel signage albeit that I can't think that anybody would consider any part of the London Overground or DLR to be "tube", not even the part which runs over the old East London Line.

 

[JamieL]

The UK has to be deferential to our social and political superiors, hence the name. As to the question, its a train. It just has the novelty of running through tunnels under Central London. We don't rebrand the main railway when it goes through a tunnel. Same, same here.

 

[Gathursty]

Geoff Marshall famously added to this confusion. I've no idea why people don't get it is a railway given the aim was to seamlessly link Reading and Shenfield/Abbey Wood. How on earth a Tube line was going to do that I've no idea.

 

[LAX54]

The UK has to be deferential to our social and political superiors, hence the name. As to the question, its a train. It just has the novelty of running through tunnels under Central London. We don't rebrand the main railway when it goes through a tunnel. Same, same here.

District / Met and Circle lines are not tube lines either lol

 

[jon81uk]

Its Boris Johnsons fault for wanting to call it a "line" rather than sticking with Crossrail.

 

[bleeder4]

The Tube got its name from the shape of its tunnels though, not the fact that it runs underground.

 

[westv]

When I lived in south London up to the mid 90s, the underground was an alien transport system to me.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I mean, does it really matter?
(I get fare's are different, but these days with things like the fare finder on TfL's website and Contractless being the main method of payment anyway, you'd soon be able to work it out)

 

[Farigiraf]

Calling it Crossrail would set a bad precedent for future Crossrail 2 etc. because you would have to call it Crossrail 2 logically. While Elizabeth line is not perfect (although Lizzie Line is a fun nickname to shorten it) and it would have been better off being called '____ground' (insert preposition), it's fine for now though
Introducing Crossrail 2: The Charles Line! This line is not a tube, rail, light rail or whatever reasonable! Broxbourne to Epsom in Parry People Movers!!!

 

[infobleep]

I mean, does it really matter?
(I get fare's are different, but these days with things like the fare finder on TfL's website and Contractless being the main method of payment anyway, you'd soon be able to work it out)

TfL's fare finder doesn't tell you what the default route is. I accept you can get that elsewhere but really TfL should provide it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

District / Met and Circle lines are not tube lines either lol

The Met and the Lizzie are basically the same thing, just existing under different political constructs.

Ich fahre mit der S-Bahn?

 

[stuu]

I mean, does it really matter?
(I get fare's are different, but these days with things like the fare finder on TfL's website and Contractless being the main method of payment anyway, you'd soon be able to work it out)

Exactly. Are there any real-world consequences for the average person? (I'm aware of minutiae like allowing break of journey etc)

 

[Wolfie]

It is a very confusing situation, not helped by the goofy name they chose.

"They" was Boris Johnson. All his work....

 

[AdamWW]

Exactly. Are there any real-world consequences for the average person? (I'm aware of minutiae like allowing break of journey etc)

Depends on what you mean by consequences.

Some journeys are made considerably more expensive by it being treated as the underground for fares purposes on the central section. You don't have to know that in order to buy a ticket or to use contactless/Oyster, but the consequence is that you've paid more.

 

[Wolfie]

Calling it Crossrail would set a bad precedent for future Crossrail 2 etc. because you would have to call it Crossrail 2 logically. While Elizabeth line is not perfect (although Lizzie Line is a fun nickname to shorten it) and it would have been better off being called '____ground' (insert preposition), it's fine for now though
Introducing Crossrail 2: The Charles Line! This line is not a tube, rail, light rail or whatever reasonable! Broxbourne to Epsom in Parry People Movers!!!

The mind boggles about what the Harry Line would be..... lol

 

[PaulHarding150]

I mean, does it really matter?

This ⬆️⬆️

 

[Mojo]

Exactly. Are there any real-world consequences for the average person? (I'm aware of minutiae like allowing break of journey etc)

The single fares are different between certain locations on the Elizabeth line compared to London Underground.

 

[Haywain]

TfL's fare finder doesn't tell you what the default route is.

If there isn't an alternative it doesn't need to, and if there is an alternative it specifies what that is so anything else is the default.

 

[jon81uk]

The single fares are different between certain locations on the Elizabeth line compared to London Underground.

Do you have an example? I don't think there would be anything within the zones 1-6 covered by both Elizabeth and Underground that would lead to a different fare?

There are different fares if you use National Rail compared to Elizabeth Line & Underground. For example Abbey Wood to Tottenham Court Road is £4.40 on Elizabeth Line, but £6.70 if you use National Rail and then change to the Underground. But its the non-TfL part that triggers the higher fare.

 

[Mojo]

Do you have an example? I don't think there would be anything within the zones 1-6 covered by both Elizabeth and Underground that would lead to a different fare?

The routes out of Liverpool St have had higher fares changed for certain journeys since Overground / TfL Rail took over the routes formerly operated by Greater Anglia. There are small a number of differences at both peak and off peak times, with some even being cheaper!

 

[bramling]

Apologise if this is the wrong section.

There was an article in the Evening Standard about whether the Elizabeth Line is a tube or train line.

This is what the TfL spokesman said when asked by the Standard whether the Elizabeth line was classed as a Tube line or a train line. it was


So does this mean when you travel on the Elizabeth Line you should be saying I'm traveling on the TfL mode of transport?

Taking it literally, it doesn't really explain the mode of transport very well and is confusing, given people think of buses and trams as being TfL.

Talking of confusion they also had this quote in the news report

They forgot to mention that even some staff embedded in their organisation are also confused but they wouldn't want to admit that publicly.

The full article is at https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...be-train-fare-capping-confusion-b1112507.html

This is where using the Crossrail name would have proved far more effective.

I don’t actually mind the “Elizabeth Line” concept, just think it doesn’t work particularly well.

 

[matt_world2004]

Exactly. Are there any real-world consequences for the average person? (I'm aware of minutiae like allowing break of journey etc)

People buying the wrong ticket and getting prosecuted . For example;Using a london underground ticket to Heathrow

 

[jon81uk]

The routes out of Liverpool St have had higher fares changed for certain journeys since Overground / TfL Rail took over the routes formerly operated by Greater Anglia.

But thats National Rail, not Underground. Is there any fares where Elizabeth Line is different to Underground?

 

[PTR 444]

This is where using the Crossrail name would have proved far more effective.

I don’t actually mind the “Elizabeth Line” concept, just think it doesn’t work particularly well.

Crossrail should have been the name of the mode, with that instead of “Elizabeth Line” being displayed on purple roundel signs. The EL name could have been kept as a line of that mode however.

I think there is still a possibility to rectify this in years come by, certainly before Crossrail 2 gets built.

 

[jon81uk]

People buying the wrong ticket and getting prosecuted . For example;Using a london underground ticket to Heathrow

Who buys paper London Underground single tickets? If you had a travelcard it would be valid on either service, if you use Oyster/contactless it would charge the relevant fare.

I guess there might be a small number of tourists buying paper single tickets from an LU station to Heathrow, but would be interesting to see what it shows on the machine, it probably does state to Underground or similar. I get this might seem confusing if you use the Underground entrance at Tottenham Court Road and therefore Underground ticket machines but it would be a small number of users.

 

[Mojo]

But thats National Rail, not Underground. Is there any fares where Elizabeth Line is different to Underground?

I’m not sure what you’re saying? Someone travelling in the morning peak from Liverpool Street to Brentwood would pay £9.60 but would pay £7.90 on the Met line to Amersham despite both journeys being zone 1-9. There are also other fare differences for shorter journeys not involving zone 1, some cheaper but most more expensive.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Crossrail for me - except my friends always always give me blank looks when I call it that. So Elizabeth Line I have to call it. I do also curl my toes when someone says "I've just jumped on the tube at Southall"...

No my friend, no you didn't...