Emergency Sanders?

[TheEdge]

*Please only answer of you actually know*

In the most recent PON in my region there is a new section about emergency sanders on some stock and what to do if they are used.

It goes on about contacting the signaller and placing TCOCs down of you can't, permission to move and reporting the reason for use. So I assume its quite a serious thing, presumably it deposits a large amount of sand in short order.

However myself and my instructor have never heard of them. Can anyone shed anymore light on them and what stock they are on?

TIA

 

[driver9000]

Voyagers have (or had) "one shot" emergency sanders. Once it's been used the unit has to come out of service. We don't have them on the stock I work but I assume the instruction is there in case the unit has become "beached" on the sand.

 

[edwin_m]

I was project manager for fitting of these to 159s circa 1996, and they were later fitted to some 158s and I think Voyagers too. I don't know if any still exist but I suspect not.

The emergency sander was developed from a fire suppression system. Under the nose of the train were two pressurised bottles containing gas and sand, with piping to deposit it under the first wheel. This was triggered by a button in the cab. It was certainly effective in stopping the train, as I witnessed on a trial west of Salisbury on an ECS working on a misty November morning. However once activated it couldn't be stopped and couldn't be used again until new bottles were fitted. I believe a "two-shot" version was considered but I don't think it was ever adopted.

Most newer units have been fitted with more intelligent sander systems that dispense a small amount of sand under the second bogie of the train when poor adhesion is detected. These keep the first bogie sand-free, which helps the wheelslide protection as it uses these wheels to detect actual adhesion conditions without sand. It also helps to ensure the train is still detected on track circuits. The one-shot had a constant flow rate so at low speeds would drop a relatively thick layer of sand, and dispensed under the first wheel so the whole train was at some risk of being insulated from the rails. This is the reason for the instruction.

 

[sprinterguy]

Voyagers have (or had) "one shot" emergency sanders. Once it's been used the unit has to come out of service. We don't have them on the stock I work but I assume the instruction is there in case the unit has become "beached" on the sand.

I can't speak for the Virgin examples, but the Crosscountry Voyagers were all retrofitted with a more intelligent multi-use autosander system (that activates when WSP activity is detected) prior to the last leaf fall season.

 

[driver9000]

I can't speak for the Virgin examples, but the Crosscountry Voyagers were all retrofitted with a more intelligent multi-use autosander system (that activates when WSP activity is detected) prior to the last leaf fall season.

Virgin may have done the same now as it was mentioned in the Chester collision report.

 

[Right Away]

*Please only answer of you actually know*

In the most recent PON in my region there is a new section about emergency sanders on some stock and what to do if they are used.

It goes on about contacting the signaller and placing TCOCs down of you can't, permission to move and reporting the reason for use. So I assume its quite a serious thing, presumably it deposits a large amount of sand in short order.

However myself and my instructor have never heard of them. Can anyone shed anymore light on them and what stock they are on?

TIA

The Western PON has similar instructions relating to use on single class 142/143/153 units. This is because of the lightweight nature of these units and the limited amount of axles on such trains, with the risk of the wheels being electrically isolated from the railhead by the sand and failing to correctly operate the track circuit and show it as occupied (a serious wrong side failure). Longer formations are not subject to the instructions because they have an increased number of axles to operate the track circuit correctly.

 

[sw1ller]

ATW 158s still have emergency one shot sanders. Only to be used in case of a collision or SPAD. not to be used for station over runs as has been done in the past.

There is a yellow button with two orange lights that only light up when in forward or reverse. These indicate they are both working. There’s two fire bottle type canisters at the front of each unit and it does deposit quite a fair bit of sand down that could break track circuits. I don’t recall how much is in there I’m sorry.

 

[Ploughman]

Item on sanders in a recent Rail Engineer.

https://www.railengineer.uk/2018/05...right-place-works-wonders-part-2-the-results/

Last year (issue 157, November 2017), Rail Engineer contained an article with a very similar title covering tests using additional sanders and variable-rate discharge sand valves on two Class 387 EMUs at RIDC Melton. The article was upbeat, describing a multi-disciplinary, multi-company team of people working well together delivering useful tests with promising results.

This is the follow up – the “now the truth can be told” article – and the news is good. It’s sufficient to say that there was a strong requirement to understand sanding better and this series of tests was important. The results and challenges faced by the project team was the subject of a session in early February 2018 hosted by RSSB.

 

[TheEdge]

Thanks all, so these are not a new thing then? Wonder why they've only just appeared in our PON then...

 

[driver9000]

It might be a case of the instruction reappearing, I'm sure one shot sanders were in the general instructions of the appendix years ago.

 

[Intercity Exec]

The Western PON has similar instructions relating to use on single class 142/143/153 units. This is because of the lightweight nature of these units and the limited amount of axles on such trains, with the risk of the wheels being electrically isolated from the railhead by the sand and failing to correctly operate the track circuit and show it as occupied (a serious wrong side failure). Longer formations are not subject to the instructions because they have an increased number of axles to operate the track circuit correctly.

Further to this, class 142, 143, 144 and 153 units deposit sand under the wheels of the leading axle making isolation from track circuits more likely.

 

[DanDaDriver]

Further to this, class 142, 143, 144 and 153 units deposit sand under the wheels of the leading axle making isolation from track circuits more likely.

I think 153’s/6’s were until recently Emergency sanding only, ie: dump the lot and disappear off the signallers panel when you insulate yourself off the track circuit.

At least some have been modified to be step one sands now.

 

[TheEdge]

The GA 156s are modified to sand available to the driver and also have a rather clever WSP system. The ins and outs of it I don't know, I just know its bloody brilliant at stopping slipping!

 

[edwin_m]

It might be a case of the instruction reappearing, I'm sure one shot sanders were in the general instructions of the appendix years ago.

Yes, one was written in 1996 or 1997 when they first appeared.

Further to this, class 142, 143, 144 and 153 units deposit sand under the wheels of the leading axle making isolation from track circuits more likely.

Until a couple of years ago sanders weren't allowed on four-axle vehicles due to the track circuit risk. After some research that should be on the RSSB website somewhere, it was agreed to change the standard so Pacers and 153s could have sanders. This may have led to the re-appearance of the instruction.

The GA 156s are modified to sand available to the driver and also have a rather clever WSP system. The ins and outs of it I don't know, I just know its bloody brilliant at stopping slipping!

Unusual in that traditionally WSP has only been fitted to disc-braked units, as tread brakes tend to keep the wheel cleaner and don't decelerate at the same rate anyway.

 

[Intercity Exec]

I think 153’s/6’s were until recently Emergency sanding only, ie: dump the lot and disappear off the signallers panel when you insulate yourself off the track circuit.

At least some have been modified to be step one sands now.

The 14X and 15X (not 158) sanders were generally fitted (not all installed the same at different companies) as step 2 (in some cases), step 3 and Emergency brake position enabling sand so not Emergency Sanders in the sense of the original thread title. They therefore only operated for as long as required by the driver. This has generally been changed to enable sand in all brake positions. Emergency sanders are a completely different system which have already been described correctly earlier in the thread.

 

[380101]

The GA 156s are modified to sand available to the driver and also have a rather clever WSP system. The ins and outs of it I don't know, I just know its bloody brilliant at stopping slipping!

The ScotRail 156s have sanders fitted. Sand available to driver in step 2 and 3 when braking and automatically in emergency. Also available if wheels slip when powering. No fancy WSP fitted like the GA units have, just the gearbox light illuminating when wheels lock or slip.

 

[sw1ller]

The original question was about the use of ONE SHOT EMERGENCY SANDERS.

Absolutely nothing to do with WSP, Sliding or slipping. It’s a completely separate function and should only be used in an EMERGENCY!! can we stop talking about sanders working in brake step whatever...... it has nothing to do with the actual question.

 

[TheEdge]

Well I asked the question, its been basically answered and now the thread is naturally moving onto other types of sand and why the single burst sanders have seemingly fallen out of favour.

 

[Cowley]

Well I asked the question, its been basically answered and now the thread is naturally moving onto other types of sand and why the single burst sanders have seemingly fallen out of favour.

Yep, and there’s probably a few of us that are finding the thread (and it’s natural progression) quite interesting.
Always good to learn, thanks TheEdge.

 

[Peter Russell]

I am currently looking for a company that can service and re-energise one shot sander bottles, if anyone can point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it!

 

[Eccles1983]

ATW 158s still have emergency one shot sanders. Only to be used in case of a collision or SPAD. not to be used for station over runs as has been done in the past.

There is a yellow button with two orange lights that only light up when in forward or reverse. These indicate they are both working. There’s two fire bottle type canisters at the front of each unit and it does deposit quite a fair bit of sand down that could break track circuits. I don’t recall how much is in there I’m sorry.

I bet you men have fun in leaf fall with them.

The 158's over here have autosanders when the wsp kicks in under braking. And it's well needed otherwise our fall to calls would be through the roof

 

[edwin_m]

Chubb produced the original ones, but that was 25 years ago. And you probably know that.

 

[Llama]

The ex-Wessex 158s which went to Northern in about 2007 had the emergency sanders fitted (in addition to the auto-sander system). Northern removed them as they were non-standard in relation to the rest of their fleet. Before they were removed they were isolated and labelled as such in the cab. Those 158s also had auxiliary tread brakes which were removed at the same time for the same reasons. The auxiliary tread brakes were reinstated (and fitted to the whole Northern 158 fleet) some years later.

 

[sw1ller]

I bet you men have fun in leaf fall with them.

The 158's over here have autosanders when the wsp kicks in under braking. And it's well needed otherwise our fall to calls would be through the roof

We have auto sanders on the 158’s. The one shot sanders are only for use in emergency. I’ve never used them. The 158’s are decent enough in leaf fall, better than the 150’s that’s for sure. I prefer them to a 175 too as I feel I’m in control of it more, others will disagree though.