EMR Class 170 updates

[FLIRTfan18]

That'll be a 196 test run

Ah I see. My mistake!

 

[newtownmgr]

That'll be a 196 test run

Didn’t get very far.

 

[FLIRTfan18]

According to the following post on Flickr, EMR liveried 170503 and 170534 have left WMR today. The majority of services on BHM-SHR today have been two carriages, real shortage at the moment

Last Day in the West Midlands

Approaching Smethwick Rolfe Street, 170534 and 170516 make up 1G49 Shrewsbury to Birmingham New Street. Both 170534 and 170503 had been subleased back to WMR and used on WMR services until EMR were ready for them. The next day, both units would leave Tyseley together and head to their...

flic.kr

Approaching Smethwick Rolfe Street, 170534 and 170516 make up 1G49 Shrewsbury to Birmingham New Street.

Both 170534 and 170503 had been subleased back to WMR and used on WMR services until EMR were ready for them. The next day, both units would leave Tyseley together and head to their new home at Derby​

 

[43102EMR]

According to the following post on Flickr, EMR liveried 170503 and 170534 have left WMR today. The majority of services on BHM-SHR today have been two carriages, real shortage at the moment

Last Day in the West Midlands

Approaching Smethwick Rolfe Street, 170534 and 170516 make up 1G49 Shrewsbury to Birmingham New Street. Both 170534 and 170503 had been subleased back to WMR and used on WMR services until EMR were ready for them. The next day, both units would leave Tyseley together and head to their...

flic.kr

Some of the slack should be made up from the addition of the Chiltern 172s, although unless the 196s enter service soon, there’s going to be stock shortage issues for some time yet...

 

[Roger B]

Some of the slack should be made up from the addition of the Chiltern 172s, although unless the 196s enter service soon, there’s going to be stock shortage issues for some time yet...

Now allocated to Nottingham? Which serviced are the 170s intended to work on?

 

[SteveyBee131]

Now allocated to Nottingham? Which serviced are the 170s intended to work on?

Derby Etches Park if I remember right. Various services radiating around Lincoln Nottingham and Derby are pencilled in to get them (subject to crew traction knowledge), but not Liverpool-Norwich at this time.

 

[43102EMR]

Derby Etches Park if I remember right. Various services radiating around Lincoln Nottingham and Derby are pencilled in to get them (subject to crew traction knowledge), but not Liverpool-Norwich at this time.

Liverpool to Norwich I’m personally disappointed about, but I understand at the same time seeing as the route is to be split and not enough 170s are available to cover the Nottingham to Liverpool section...

 

[DDB]

I noticed on a May 21 timetable changes summary poster today that the Crewe-Nottingham service specifically had a line about more modern trains with wifi and at seat charging points or similar so I assume that service is next in line for 170s.

 

[Roger B]

Derby Etches Park if I remember right. Various services radiating around Lincoln Nottingham and Derby are pencilled in to get them (subject to crew traction knowledge), but not Liverpool-Norwich at this time.

I noticed on a May 21 timetable changes summary poster today that the Crewe-Nottingham service specifically had a line about more modern trains with wifi and at seat charging points or similar so I assume that service is next in line for 170s.

Many thanks both - very helpful

 

[LowLevel]

I noticed on a May 21 timetable changes summary poster today that the Crewe-Nottingham service specifically had a line about more modern trains with wifi and at seat charging points or similar so I assume that service is next in line for 170s.

The Crewe trains are I think mostly booked 158 at the minute.

 

[Failed Unit]

What are the Cleethorpes - Barton going to use? I see Lincolnshire the diagrams send units all over the place.

 

[bunnahabhain]

The Crewe trains are I think mostly booked 158 at the minute.

There's one circuit booked for a 170. 170s have booked work on all lines except Cleethorpes to Barton and Liverpool to Norwich now. There's even a 3 car set allocated partly to the Jolly Joint Line.

 

[SteveyBee131]

What are the Cleethorpes - Barton going to use? I see Lincolnshire the diagrams send units all over the place.

Barton will be a pair of 153s until either the Cleethorpes crews that currently work it are trained on 156s, or Lincoln crews have learned the route. In either case it will eventually be worked with 156s.

 

[jacobmartin]

Yeah, that's true.

 

[LowLevel]

Barton will be a pair of 153s until either the Cleethorpes crews that currently work it are trained on 156s, or Lincoln crews have learned the route. In either case it will eventually be worked with 156s.

Not quite right. It will be 153s and TPE crews until probably September when freight crews hired in are planned to take over with 156s. May '22 EMR crews from Lincoln are then planned to take over with 156s or 170s.

 

[SteveyBee131]

Not quite right. It will be 153s and TPE crews until probably September when freight crews hired in are planned to take over with 156s. May '22 EMR crews from Lincoln are then planned to take over with 156s or 170s.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Inside knowledge is always gratefully received

 

[ABB125]

According to the latest edition of Modern Railways, one TfW class 170 is being "temporarily" sub-leased to EMR. This is apparently beneficial to both parties: TfW are running a reduced timetable, and there are limited routes on which they can run class 170s, so getting rid of one unit frees up depot space; EMR also need more class 170s, as WMR's units are transferring more slowly than expected.
The article also suggests that, following its renationalisation, TfW's fleet strategy is being revised; it's expected that the whole fleet will move to EMR, but apparently neither operator would comment. I'm sure I read on here somewhere someone suggesting that the TfW fleet should move to EMR, but I may be imagining it!

 

[43102EMR]

According to the latest edition of Modern Railways, one TfW class 170 is being "temporarily" sub-leased to EMR. This is apparently beneficial to both parties: TfW are running a reduced timetable, and there are limited routes on which they can run class 170s, so getting rid of one unit frees up depot space; EMR also need more class 170s, as WMR's units are transferring more slowly than expected.
The article also suggests that, following its renationalisation, TfW's fleet strategy is being revised; it's expected that the whole fleet will move to EMR, but apparently neither operator would comment. I'm sure I read on here somewhere someone suggesting that the TfW fleet should move to EMR, but I may be imagining it!

Personally I hope this happens - why TfW ever planned to retain the 170s but withdraw the similarly-aged 175s I will never know...

 

[IanXC]

Interesting to note that EMR were due to ultimately get 8x 2 car and 4x 4 car from Southern, and reportedly reform them to 4x 2 car and 8x 3 car, whereas TfW's 170 fleet is already 4x 2 car and 8x 3 car...

 

[43102EMR]

If this happens, this would remove the need to source other stock for the Liverpool - Nottingham route now surely? EMR would have a homogeneous fleet of 52 170s to cover all regional services which would work out much better for them.

 

[Failed Unit]

Personally I hope this happens - why TfW ever planned to retain the 170s but withdraw the similarly-aged 175s I will never know...

Less standard at a guess - could be a sourcing parts issue.

If this happens, this would remove the need to source other stock for the Liverpool - Nottingham route now surely? EMR would have a homogeneous fleet of 52 170s to cover all regional services which would work out much better for them.

If think Nottingham - Liverpool would need to be 4 car 170s or capacity will be down on what it has got. I don't think 2x 2 car 170s would be an improvement to the passengers as you lose the corridor connection.

 

[swt_passenger]

If this happens, this would remove the need to source other stock for the Liverpool - Nottingham route now surely? EMR would have a homogeneous fleet of 52 170s to cover all regional services which would work out much better for them.

I thought it was being suggested ex TfW units might replace those not yet available from Southern. In which case Liverpool - Nottingham would still not be accounted for.

 

[43102EMR]

I thought it was being suggested ex TfW units might replace those not yet available from Southern. In which case Liverpool - Nottingham would still not be accounted for.

Ahh yes I realised not long after I sent this - IMO even if the move goes ahead, I still believe EMR will be after the Southern units to try and create an all-170 fleet, but who knows.

Less standard at a guess - could be a sourcing parts issue.


If think Nottingham - Liverpool would need to be 4 car 170s or capacity will be down on what it has got. I don't think 2x 2 car 170s would be an improvement to the passengers as you lose the corridor connection.

52 170s would be more than enough to cover all EMR regional diagrams by that point - prior to the 170s joining, EMR were managing with 62x sprinter units (21 of which were 153s), so the likelihood is there should be enough for multiple workings on Nottingham - Liverpool workings.

 

[Failed Unit]

Remember the timetable has increased.
Grimsby - Lincoln will be hourly - another unit needed
Peterborough - Doncaster will be hourly - (maybe another unit)
Barton on Humber joined the franchise.
Crewe - Derby extended (some balancing with Matlock - Newark, but another unit)

I wouldn't say they were managing before, but the demand on the fleet has gone up anyway since "Plan A"

 

[Caaardiff]

Personally I hope this happens - why TfW ever planned to retain the 170s but withdraw the similarly-aged 175s I will never know...

It would probably make the 175 fleet more difficult to cascade elsewhere. There's plenty of 170s around the country but whoever takes the 175s would only have 20 odd to chose from. Would make sense to take the whole fleet.

It's a shame TfW couldn't exchange the whole 170 fleet for some 158s instead. The current 170 is surplus to whats required. So 12 170s for say 9-10 158s would be beneficial to both parties. The 158s can be used on most TfW routes and would compliment the 24 already in the fleet.

 

[TheBigD]

Interesting to note that EMR were due to ultimately get 8x 2 car and 4x 4 car from Southern, and reportedly reform them to 4x 2 car and 8x 3 car, whereas TfW's 170 fleet is already 4x 2 car and 8x 3 car...

EMR were originally due to receive 6 x 3 car and 10 x 2 car 170 from Southern, 38 vehicles in total. If EMR now receive 8 x 3 car and 4 x 2 car from TfW that still leaves a shortfall of 4 units or 6 vehicles.

And that still leaves what will work Liverpool-Nottingham unanswered.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It would probably make the 175 fleet more difficult to cascade elsewhere. There's plenty of 170s around the country but whoever takes the 175s would only have 20 odd to chose from. Would make sense to take the whole fleet.

It's a shame TfW couldn't exchange the whole 170 fleet for some 158s instead. The current 170 is surplus to whats required. So 12 170s for say 9-10 158s would be beneficial to both parties. The 158s can be used on most TfW routes and would compliment the 24 already in the fleet.

The issue there would be the Heart of Wales line, which is earmarked for 170s but 158s are barred unless running empty with the suspension airbags deflated.

 

[LowLevel]

It would probably make the 175 fleet more difficult to cascade elsewhere. There's plenty of 170s around the country but whoever takes the 175s would only have 20 odd to chose from. Would make sense to take the whole fleet.

It's a shame TfW couldn't exchange the whole 170 fleet for some 158s instead. The current 170 is surplus to whats required. So 12 170s for say 9-10 158s would be beneficial to both parties. The 158s can be used on most TfW routes and would compliment the 24 already in the fleet.

EMR do still have 8 x Perkins 158s of the same type as the existing Welsh units which I suppose could head the other way.

 

[ABB125]

EMR do still have 8 x Perkins 158s of the same type as the existing Welsh units which I suppose could head the other way.

At risk of wandering off-topic, I wonder if the forthcoming GBR will result in more "joined-up thinking" transfers like this?

 

[fgwrich]

EMR do still have 8 x Perkins 158s of the same type as the existing Welsh units which I suppose could head the other way.

Not only would that make sense, but the interiors would be easily reconfigurable - both have the Grammer IC3000 seats, though they would require additional tables and luggage racks.