EMR Class 360's

[43066]

If it’s short term to allow maintenance then fine - but based on today, that’s insane if for any length of time.

Unfortunately it’s true - 360s are four car on Sundays going forward, apart from a couple of late services which are doubled up to position stock for Monday morning. It’s completely bonkers, clearly being done to reduce mileage, and exactly kind of thing that will encourage people to drive rather than use the railway, but makes complete sense when we remember that penny wise pound foolish is the mantra on the UK railway at the moment!

I asked someone-who-should-know whether this was because they'd had a lot of failures

On the bright side, despite the initial teething issues which went on for far too long, they seem to have bedded in and are now pretty reliable mechanically.

 

[Mike395]

Unfortunately it’s true - 360s are four car on Sundays going forward, apart from a couple of late services which are doubled up to position stock for Monday morning. It’s completely bonkers, clearly being done to reduce mileage, and exactly kind of thing that will encourage people to drive rather than use the railway, but makes complete sense when we remember that penny wise pound foolish is the mantra on the UK railway at the moment!



On the bright side, despite the initial teething issues which went on for far too long, they seem to have bedded in and are now pretty reliable mechanically.

Thanks for confirming - bonkers indeed! Hopefully some of the local press along the Connect route will pick up on it and force a change of thought here…. There’s going to be some early evening services, particularly as Christmas season approaches, with dangerous levels of crowding if it continues.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It's a shambolic, laughable situation all round. The company should be ashamed that that's all they can turn out when they have twenty-one on the books, and especially when they have the nerve to make such a song-and-dance about the route re. advertising and publicity as well.

 

[Mike395]

Looks like whomever came up with the idea of having all 4-car Sunday diagrams has realised/been advised it wasn’t their best idea. Vast majority of diagrams back to 8 car today.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Looks like whomever came up with the idea of having all 4-car Sunday diagrams has realised/been advised it wasn’t their best idea. Vast majority of diagrams back to 8 car today.

Good. 4 cars all day with the amount they have is absolutely ludicrous.

 

[LowLevel]

Looks like whomever came up with the idea of having all 4-car Sunday diagrams has realised/been advised it wasn’t their best idea. Vast majority of diagrams back to 8 car today.

It's not meant to kick in until the December timetable change, if it still does.

 

[Trainbike46]

It's not meant to kick in until the December timetable change, if it still does.

Unless they are changing something about the timetable that would make it more succesful (like increasing the frequency), why wait till then?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Looks like whomever came up with the idea of having all 4-car Sunday diagrams has realised/been advised it wasn’t their best idea. Vast majority of diagrams back to 8 car today.

As I've pointed out before, on Sundays the 360s only run Kettering - Corby before mid-day. Is there really the demand for 8 car trains? I would see more of a problem with the EMR Inter City trains making the stops South of Kettering in lieu, particularly as later in the morning they're only 5 cars. Catching early down trains from Wellingborough on Sunday mornings which are 10 cars I've encountered standing. Presumably there will have been passengers making journeys entirely South of there which I don't see the effects of, but which would increase the (over) loading..
Out of interest, are the 360s heavily loaded Bedford and South off peak in the week? I travel about once a week off peak between Wellingborough and Kettering, and the loading is extremely sparse (usually, about half-a-dozen join on the Down, and about 20-25 in total leave at Kettering for the Inter City connection).

 

[Mike395]

As I've pointed out before, on Sundays the 360s only run Kettering - Corby before mid-day. Is there really the demand for 8 car trains? I would see more of a problem with the EMR Inter City trains making the stops South of Kettering in lieu, particularly as later in the morning they're only 5 cars. Catching early down trains from Wellingborough on Sunday mornings which are 10 cars I've encountered standing. Presumably there will have been passengers making journeys entirely South of there which I don't see the effects of, but which would increase the (over) loading..
Out of interest, are the 360s heavily loaded Bedford and South off peak in the week? I travel about once a week off peak between Wellingborough and Kettering, and the loading is extremely sparse (usually, about half-a-dozen join on the Down, and about 20-25 in total leave at Kettering for the Inter City connection).

Certainly can see that the Kettering-Corby morning shuttles could be 4-car, but once it starts doing the through services from London, these should be 8 cars. The northbound services from around 4pm through to 7-8pm can quite often be uncomfortable if only 4 cars, particularly if there have been lots of events on in London that day.

360 loading off-peak in the week does vary, from around 10am to 4pm I'd say it's probably only at Luton Airport Parkway that the train starts feeling busy southbound on a 4 car set. 8 car services are pretty comfortable off peak (whilst conversely also not carrying around fresh air), as you'd expect.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Certainly can see that the Kettering-Corby morning shuttles could be 4-car, but once it starts doing the through services from London, these should be 8 cars. The northbound services from around 4pm through to 7-8pm can quite often be uncomfortable if only 4 cars, particularly if there have been lots of events on in London that day.

360 loading off-peak in the week does vary, from around 10am to 4pm I'd say it's probably only at Luton Airport Parkway that the train starts feeling busy southbound on a 4 car set. 8 car services are pretty comfortable off peak (whilst conversely also not carrying around fresh air), as you'd expect.

Thank you.

 

[spotify95]

The 360s are living up to their name again, with 360111 being particularly problematic. Lots of litter throughout, including a significant amount in the ex First Class section, lights not working (meaning you have to use the reading lights in 1at class), litter in 119 also, a filthy toilet with lots of toilet paper on the floor and very little left in the container for passenger use (litter on floor cleared by myself) and on top of everything, the water ran out in the toilet of 111 so no one can wash their hands. I had to hop into 119 before the train departed, to wash my hands properly. MARVELLOUS!!!

I'd be feeling rather pissed if I'd paid over £120 for an Anytime Return from STP to COR, or STP to WEL. (From KET you just get a 222 instead.)

 

[43096]

(From KET you just get a 222 instead.)

Which are in a worse state than the Desiros.

 

[RailWonderer]

There was so much potential with this EMR Connect with a refurb of 2+2 seating and carpets in EMR purple and gray and it’s a shame these 360s have not seen the care they deserve. They are brilliant trains that aren’t getting the investment the 185s and 350s got.

 

[samuelmorris]

There was so much potential with this EMR Connect with a refurb of 2+2 seating and carpets in EMR purple and gray and it’s a shame these 360s have not seen the care they deserve. They are brilliant trains that aren’t getting the investment the 185s and 350s got.

Having used the 360/1s regularly when they were brand new and remembering what a huge improvement they were over the existing stock, it is kind of upsetting to see the state they're in (and that the /2s don't even still exist).

 

[RailWonderer]

Having used the 360/1s regularly when they were brand new and remembering what a huge improvement they were over the existing stock, it is kind of upsetting to see the state they're in (and that the /2s don't even still exist).

I used them on GA and NX for a decade as well and they were light years ahead of the draughty, rattly, loud, uncomfortable 321s that aged prematurely that also used to ply the GE line.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Totally subjective of course but give me a 321 over these things any day, brand new or otherwise. It's not that I don't like new stuff, I'm quite fond of the electrostar family as well as the cross rail stock and Anglian flirts but have never liked these at all

 

[Merle Haggard]

I used them on GA and NX for a decade as well and they were light years ahead of the draughty, rattly, loud, uncomfortable 321s that aged prematurely that also used to ply the GE line.

I still don't know how we managed to get rid of the 321/4s prematurely from round here to you but I certainly concur with your opinion.
Travelling in the small smoking 1st compartment in the Summer, the hopper vent had to be opened to reduce the ambient temperature to bearable, but entering tunnels (particularly the single bore one on the Down fast at Linslade ) caused a pressure difference that slammed it shut with such ferocity that I have known the glass to shatter. The noise levels with ventilation open, the inability to walk through the train to find a seat - thank you, Jane Preistman, style (was the front that pleasant as a result?) over practicality. And I nearly forgot; on an icy day, platforms on the nearside all the way from Euston except, arriving at Northampton they're on the offside - and frozen up and won't open (ice in the exposed lower runners). I think a 'gas axe' on low in the hands of the Northampton shunter resolved that at least once.
So makes me realise the 360s are .... luxury!!!

 

[QSK19]

I still don't know how we managed to get rid of the 321/4s prematurely from round here to you but I certainly concur with your opinion.
Travelling in the small smoking 1st compartment in the Summer, the hopper vent had to be opened to reduce the ambient temperature to bearable, but entering tunnels (particularly the single bore one on the Down fast at Linslade ) caused a pressure difference that slammed it shut with such ferocity that I have known the glass to shatter. The noise levels with ventilation open, the inability to walk through the train to find a seat - thank you, Jane Preistman, style (was the front that pleasant as a result?) over practicality. And I nearly forgot; on an icy day, platforms on the nearside all the way from Euston except, arriving at Northampton they're on the offside - and frozen up and won't open (ice in the exposed lower runners). I think a 'gas axe' on low in the hands of the Northampton shunter resolved that at least once.
So makes me realise the 360s are .... luxury!!!

Were luxury. They were super in earlier days; however they are a faint shadow of their former glory.

I’ve said before that they have the potential to be the perfect train for the Connect service; however, having travelled on them with my kids several weeks ago, they are a disgrace to the East Midlands rail network. My son asking me “Daddy, why are these trains so dirty? Can’t EMR sort them?” and then my daughter following up with “Daddy, can you ask EMR to stop using these trains?” both speak volumes on the matter - they are 6 and 5 years old respectively and for such young kids to be making comments like that highlights that it’s a sorry state of affairs.

The only plus side is that EMR do seem to be able to run services (albeit with an unacceptable amount of 4-car services) reliably when other TOCs don’t; however, that’s no excuse for trains being in such a poor state.

 

[Agent_Squash]

My son asking me “Daddy, why are these trains so dirty? Can’t EMR sort them?” and then my daughter following up with “Daddy, can you ask EMR to stop using these trains?” both speak volumes on the matter - they are 6 and 5 years old respectively and for such young kids to be making comments like that highlights that it’s a sorry state of affairs.

Did 5 and 6 year olds seriously mention the TOC by name?

 

[QSK19]

Did 5 and 6 year olds seriously mention the TOC by name?

Yes, they love Miles and hence know what EMR is. They also know some others like LNER, XC, HT and Avanti (through a mix of travelling on their services or seeing their trains at local stations).

 

[spotify95]

Which are in a worse state than the Desiros.

I would be surprised if anything is in a worse state than the Desiros. I'm surprised anyone travels via EMR. Massive advertisement for the private automobile.

On related news, the 14.39 from Corby is a 4 car! Are you telling me that EMR don't have 12 serviceable 360s?!

 

[Merle Haggard]

I would be surprised if anything is in a worse state than the Desiros. I'm surprised anyone travels via EMR. Massive advertisement for the private automobile.

On related news, the 14.39 from Corby is a 4 car! Are you telling me that EMR don't have 12 serviceable 360s?!

360120 is on the 4 car working; was coupled to 360105 yesterday so the latter has presumably died.

My reference to the 360s being 'luxury' was an ironic nod to The Four Yorkshiremen

 

[MML]

360120 is on the 4 car working; was coupled to 360105 yesterday so the latter has presumably died.

My reference to the 360s being 'luxury' was an ironic nod to The Four Yorkshiremen

There was an apology from the train manager on 360120 this morning on its first journey to London regarding the short formation due to failure of the other unit. But then EMR haven't rectified the issue and it's remained short formed for the rest of the day.
11 in service from a fleet of 21, so why are 10 not available for service?

 

[Travelmonkey]

I would be surprised if anything is in a worse state than the Desiros. I'm surprised anyone travels via EMR. Massive advertisement for the private automobile.

I only use EMR if I can get a good first class deal or I have no other option (Kettering) otherwise for my London trips I find myself on LNWR and even the 350/2 units are in better nick than EMRs 360s which is a shame as they aren't bad trains all things considered but EMR as far as I'm concerned have slid downwards, even the 170s used on one of my local routes feel like they shouldn't be there, many Echos of operators past,

 

[Hairy Bear]

There was an apology from the train manager on 360120 this morning on its first journey to London regarding the short formation due to failure of the other unit. But then EMR haven't rectified the issue and it's remained short formed for the rest of the day.
11 in service from a fleet of 21, so why are 10 not available for service?

That's always been the case since day 1.
2 will be on booked maintainence , the remaining 7 will have faults on them and are therfore not used.

 

[Maddog83]

Last management discussion I heard was the feedback was the passangers like and would prefer 3+2 seating. Lol what planet are they on

 

[samuelmorris]

Last management discussion I heard was the feedback was the passangers like and would prefer 3+2 seating. Lol what planet are they on

By carefully wording a question that says 'are you concerned about lack of available seats? Would you like us to make more seats available at peak times?' and doesn't mention how it is achieved.

 

[Bletchleyite]

By carefully wording a question that says 'are you concerned about lack of available seats? Would you like us to make more seats available at peak times?' and doesn't mention how it is achieved.

To be fair, as I've mentioned before with regard to the LNR Trent Valley services, the groups of 6 are quite popular with families and groups who don't care about being a bit squashed up when it means they can effectively have a private compartment a bit like their car.

 

[QSK19]

Last management discussion I heard was the feedback was the passangers like and would prefer 3+2 seating. Lol what planet are they on

And that they’re more than happy to keep paying Intercity-level fares for the pleasure

To be honest, despite being one of the biggest complainers on RF about the possibility of the 360s retaining 3+2 seating, I’m getting to the point where I just want to see them refurbished and cleaned to a decent standard with comfortable seating regardless of 2+2 or 3+2. The trains are a disgrace to the East Midlands (and the national network at that) and fundamentals need to be sorted ahead of seating. That’s quite something coming from me!

 

[Mikey C]

The mixed layout used on some Electrostars would be perfect then. 2+2 at the end of the carriage, 2+3 in the middle.