EMR Class 360's

[Ciderking]

Seen passing through Eastleigh station today behind 47749 en route to Cricklewood. Flickr picture here,.

Eastleigh 360 121

GBRF 47749 with 360121 (5Q36) 10.03 Eastleigh Trsmd to Cricklewood Depot via Reading

www.flickr.com

 

[Stadtbahn]

I still find it astonishing how a new livery can turn units that look pretty battered and outdated into a train that looks modern and sleek. I always loved the EMR purple but it looks particularly nice here.

 

[Skymonster]

I still find it astonishing how a new livery can turn units that look pretty battered and outdated into a train that looks modern and sleek. I always loved the EMR purple but it looks particularly nice here.

As a passenger I’d far rather have a refurbished interior than an external repaint, but presumably EMR / Abellio sees brand image as more important than passenger comfort and convenience.

 

[43096]

As a passenger I’d far rather have a refurbished interior than an external repaint, but presumably EMR / Abellio sees brand image as more important than passenger comfort and convenience.

Bodywork overhaul will also be a maintenance item and required under the lease.

 

[MML]

The repaint obviously hasn't help with the fleet reliability. The 1617 St Pancras to Corby was formed of a 4-car unit yet again. Full and standing. As the previous poster rightly says, the only people who are interested in the exterior paint are enthusiasts and the EMR brand team. Most customers wouldn't even notice the exterior and simply want a clean, refurbished interior with comfortable seating. Above all for a supposed 'Inter-City' quality service, they don't expect to be crammed in a 4-car unit with minimal social distancing or have to stand for the first 30 minutes of their journey.

 

[Fincra5]

The repaint obviously hasn't help with the fleet reliability. The 1617 St Pancras to Corby was formed of a 4-car unit yet again. Full and standing. As the previous poster rightly says, the only people who are interested in the exterior paint are enthusiasts and the EMR brand team. Most customers wouldn't even notice the exterior and simply want a clean, refurbished interior with comfortable seating. Above all for a supposed 'Inter-City' quality service, they don't expect to be crammed in a 4-car unit with minimal social distancing or have to stand for the first 30 minutes of their journey.

Not sure of the link there....

 

[Bald Rick]

The 1617 St Pancras to Corby was formed of a 4-car unit yet again.

But it’s been 8 car for the rest of the week? Otherwise you would surely have mentioned it.

 

[43102EMR]

Not sure of the link there....

There is an indirect link in that more units are out of use for a period of time, but not directly…

 

[MML]

But it’s been 8 car for the rest of the week? Otherwise you would surely have mentioned it.

My journeys at various times this week have indeed so far been 8-car units.
I couldn't tell you in which colour the units were painted or the exterior branding. But a crammed 4 car unit is certainly not providing a quality service to customers and a gleaming newly painted unit stabled in Cricklewood sidings doesn't either. If only it had been used in service. Unless heaven forbid, the newly painted unit is unserviceable.

 

[bramling]

But it’s been 8 car for the rest of the week? Otherwise you would surely have mentioned it.

That’s a little disingenuous - 4 days of 8-car doesn’t make it any less uncomfortable on the day when it does turn up as a 4-car.

I work with people who use this service, and they’re really not happy at all. One is a Wellingborough user, he’s just about okay with the extra stops, but only if everything else works as it should, which evidently often isn’t the case.

The end-game is laudable, but the implementation has clearly left a lot to be desired.

 

[Fincra5]

My journeys at various times this week have indeed so far been 8-car units.
I couldn't tell you in which colour the units were painted or the exterior branding. But a crammed 4 car unit is certainly not providing a quality service to customers and a gleaming newly painted unit stabled in Cricklewood sidings doesn't either. If only it had been used in service. Unless heaven forbid, the newly painted unit is unserviceable.

Its only just moved from Eastleigh... Doesn't mean they drop it off and BAM! its in service.

 

[Bald Rick]

That’s a little disingenuous - 4 days of 8-car doesn’t make it any less uncomfortable on the day when it does turn up as a 4-car.

I quite agree, however we only hear when any one particular service is shortformed, regrettable though that is, and it is often portrayed that the whole service is poor, when clearly that is not the case.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Oct 2021 ==

and a gleaming newly painted unit stabled in Cricklewood sidings doesn't either.

That’s presumably the one that arrived there this afternoon. Which presumably needs some checks before reentering service.

 

[MML]

I quite agree, however we only hear when any one particular service is shortformed, regrettable though that is, and it is often portrayed that the whole service is poor, when clearly that is not the case.
That’s presumably the one that arrived there this afternoon. Which presumably needs some checks before reentering service.

EMR promised 12 car services providing more seats on peak services. They haven't delivered.

They also promised newly refurbished stock. Again they have so far failed to deliver.

With reduced commuting 8 car is acceptable and even I can overlook the grubby carpets and threadbare upholstery, so long as I and fellow passengers can sit in comfort.

With a fleet of 21 units, only 12 are required for an 8 car service.

With stabling facilities at each end of the route at Kettering and Cricklewood, the fact any service is short formed to a 4 car is not by any measure an achievement.

 

[bramling]

I quite agree, however we only hear when any one particular service is shortformed, regrettable though that is, and it is often portrayed that the whole service is poor, when clearly that is not the case.

The feedback I'm hearing - from daily users - is definitely that there's dissatisfaction with the service as a whole, shortforms being one part of this. It certainly does seem that the industry needed to do a bit better on this one.

 

[Fincra5]

EMR promised 12 car services providing more seats on peak services. They haven't delivered.

They also promised newly refurbished stock. Again they have so far failed to deliver.

With reduced commuting 8 car is acceptable and even I can overlook the grubby carpets and threadbare upholstery, so long as I and fellow passengers can sit in comfort.

With a fleet of 21 units, only 12 are required for an 8 car service.

With stabling facilities at each end of the route at Kettering and Cricklewood, the fact any service is short formed to a 4 car is not by any measure an achievement.

Now I agree EMR has been quite the shambles...

But you're moaning about unrefurbished trains but they're being done.. whilst at the same time, trying to link short forms to sending units for refurb..

Can't have it both ways

 

[MML]

Now I agree EMR has been quite the shambles...

But you're moaning about unrefurbished trains but they're being done.. whilst at the same time, trying to link short forms to sending units for refurb..

Can't have it both ways

They aren't being refurbished. They are being externally re-painted into EMR Connect branding. Interior refurbishment isn't due until Q3 of 2022 if recent comments by the MD are to be believed. Woefully late.

There are 2 units away at Eastleigh for repainting. If 12 are required to operate an 8-car service that's a total of 14.
66% of the fleet of 21.
Even if one or two are required in scheduled maintenance, there should be at least a few available to provide cover in the event of in-service failures on the day. That's obviously either not the case or there are insufficient staff in the right place to swap and prepare the units for service.

 

[dereksingh291]

But also the EMR franchise is due to finish at the of March 2022

 

[43096]

They aren't being refurbished. They are being externally re-painted into EMR Connect branding. Interior refurbishment isn't due until Q3 of 2022 if recent comments by the MD are to be believed. Woefully late.

There are 2 units away at Eastleigh for repainting. If 12 are required to operate an 8-car service that's a total of 14.
66% of the fleet of 21.
Even if one or two are required in scheduled maintenance, there should be at least a few available to provide cover in the event of in-service failures on the day. That's obviously either not the case or there are insufficient staff in the right place to swap and prepare the units for service.

It has been said up thread that
a) there is more than repaints being done; Siemens are doing reliability mods
b) bodywork overhaul/repaint is a required maintenance task and has to be done. It also often includes door equipment overhaul at the same time.

Is this all a waste of time in your ranting world?

 

[LowLevel]

But also the EMR franchise is due to finish at the of March 2022

Now extended to October 2022 with, provided terms are agreed, a Direct Award to follow for 4 to 8 years.

 

[westcoaster]

They aren't being refurbished. They are being externally re-painted into EMR Connect branding. Interior refurbishment isn't due until Q3 of 2022 if recent comments by the MD are to be believed. Woefully late.

There are 2 units away at Eastleigh for repainting. If 12 are required to operate an 8-car service that's a total of 14.
66% of the fleet of 21.
Even if one or two are required in scheduled maintenance, there should be at least a few available to provide cover in the event of in-service failures on the day. That's obviously either not the case or there are insufficient staff in the right place to swap and prepare the units for service.

can anyone confirm whether Kettering slow line platforms allow permissive working. if they don't then to reform a service it would need a trip in and out of the sidings.
Then you need a driver to prepare and shunt it out into the platform.

It's good to see 121 finally return to the MML ( only unit not to have run in service under EMR iirc). Anyone know why it took around 6 months to complete an external repaints (notice also there is no branding applied to the unit).

 

[bramling]

Now I agree EMR has been quite the shambles...

But you're moaning about unrefurbished trains but they're being done.. whilst at the same time, trying to link short forms to sending units for refurb..

Can't have it both ways

One way or other, it's quite a stretch to say that units can be sent for refurbishment when the fleet was sized for 12-car operation, which isn't happening, yet they're *still* seemingly well short. Clearly something is awry - either the logistics aren't in place to support this operation, or the trains were inherited in a truly dire state.

 

[Class455]

They aren't being refurbished. They are being externally re-painted into EMR Connect branding. Interior refurbishment isn't due until Q3 of 2022 if recent comments by the MD are to be believed. Woefully late.

There are 2 units away at Eastleigh for repainting. If 12 are required to operate an 8-car service that's a total of 14.
66% of the fleet of 21.
Even if one or two are required in scheduled maintenance, there should be at least a few available to provide cover in the event of in-service failures on the day. That's obviously either not the case or there are insufficient staff in the right place to swap and prepare the units for service.

A colleague at work told me that the EMR 360's aren't being fully refurbished until next year and I have to say that's quite frankly ridiculous. Where's the logic in doing half a job when you could do the exterior repaint and interior refurbishment at the same time? Eastleigh are certainly capable of doing both as proven on the SWR 444's and 450's. Not sure why it's taken two months to repaint one four car unit either.

 

[swt_passenger]

A colleague at work told me that the EMR 360's aren't being fully refurbished until next year and I have to say that's quite frankly ridiculous. Where's the logic in doing half a job when you could do the exterior repaint and interior refurbishment at the same time? Eastleigh are certainly capable of doing both as proven on the SWR 444's and 450's. Not sure why it's taken two months to repaint one four car unit either.

Eastleigh didn’t paint the 444 and 450. Exterior work is at Bournemouth and is a completely separate contract and timescale.

 

[fgwrich]

Eastleigh didn’t paint the 444 and 450. Exterior work is at Bournemouth and is a completely separate contract and timescale.

Indeed, repainting work carried out in house by SWR at Bournemouth (possibly the most reliable thing this franchise is delivering!) with the interior and bogie overhaul work carried out by Siemens in Eastleigh Works and Northam. Which, co-incidentally and from what I understand, have just re-entered Eastleigh...

 

[pompeyfan]

So the question needs to be rephrased, why was the tender / contract only for exterior work, why not internal too? The answer will either be capacity at Eastleigh or price.

why are they being run as two separate projects?

 

[Skymonster]

EMR hasn‘t even finalised the spec for the interior of the 360s yet…

 

[hwl]

One way or other, it's quite a stretch to say that units can be sent for refurbishment when the fleet was sized for 12-car operation, which isn't happening, yet they're *still* seemingly well short. Clearly something is awry - either the logistics aren't in place to support this operation, or the trains were inherited in a truly dire state.

Or more likely both!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2021 ==

So the question needs to be rephrased, why was the tender / contract only for exterior work, why not internal too? The answer will either be capacity at Eastleigh or price.

why are they being run as two separate projects?

Two separate projects

 

[Supercoss]

The old & new look As yet unbranded Unit will move to Bedford Cauldwell shed for further work before entering revenue use

 

[43102EMR]

The old & new look As yet unbranded Unit will move to Bedford Cauldwell shed for further work before entering revenue use
View attachment 104743 View attachment 104739View attachment 104740View attachment 104741View attachment 104742

I’m guessing that will involve testing and applying decals?

 

[Bikeman78]

Now I agree EMR has been quite the shambles...

But you're moaning about unrefurbished trains but they're being done.. whilst at the same time, trying to link short forms to sending units for refurb..

Can't have it both ways

Frankly they should be able to manage 12 out of 21 units in traffic. A single short form means 10 units stopped, nearly half the fleet. Looks like very poor fleet planning.