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EMR Class 360's

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33117

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EMR will do well with the 360s, decent units tbh.

Nowt particularly interesting but siemens stuff usually seems fairly reliable & the interiors are a fairly pleasant space.
 

QSK19

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EMR will do well with the 360s, decent units tbh.

Nowt particularly interesting but siemens stuff usually seems fairly reliable & the interiors are a fairly pleasant space.
Just got to pull them out of the hole that they’re currently in condition-wise considering the state they were in when they moved across from GA - I went on one a few weeks ago and it was simply not acceptable.

As you say, though, they should be decent once fully refurbished. Let’s also not forget that the 360s are the first electric stock that the East Midlands franchise has ever had; so growing familiarity with electric traction will help too.
 

43066

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EMR will do well with the 360s, decent units tbh.

Nowt particularly interesting but siemens stuff usually seems fairly reliable & the interiors are a fairly pleasant space.

I’d agree with this. They’re bedding in and it has the makings of a good service. Just a shame they’re so soulless from an enthusiast’s perspective!

Hopefully the refurb, when it finally happens, will bring them on in leaps and bounds.

have any emr 360s been internally refurbished yet as well as receiving the purple emr livery?

Sadly not.
 

MML

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Just painted the exterior of a few, which to be honest most customers couldn't really care less about.
Customers want sufficient carriages and a pleasant interior.
Poor reliability has led to repeated short formed services. The interior comprises filthy carpets and rather tatty upholstery.
EMR marketing dishonesty even extends to having TV adverts showing the new interior seating. Yet it's not installed. Talk about false advertising, I'm surprised they haven't been reprimanded by Advertising Standards.

 
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QSK19

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So after two-and-a-half-years of Abellio running EMR, they haven't refurbished a single train.
And, to add to that, Covid doesn’t really wash as an excuse anymore.

So many promises made, not many (if any?) kept. What’s worse from the passenger’s point of view, now that the DfT is controlling the purse strings, is there really very much incentive for EMR’s trains to be thoroughly refurbished (or even refurbished at all)?

I have this horrible feeling that the 360s won’t be refurbished (or at best they’ll get a deep clean and change of seat covers) - the can seems to be kicked further and further down the road and the risk is that it will eventually roll too far away to be recovered.
 

43102EMR

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And, to add to that, Covid doesn’t really wash as an excuse anymore.

So many promises made, not many (if any?) kept. What’s worse from the passenger’s point of view, now that the DfT is controlling the purse strings, is there really very much incentive for EMR’s trains to be thoroughly refurbished (or even refurbished at all)?

I have this horrible feeling that the 360s won’t be refurbished (or at best they’ll get a deep clean and change of seat covers) - the can seems to be kicked further and further down the road and the risk is that it will eventually roll too far away to be recovered.
It’s like I’ve said before - I 100% guarantee had Stagecoach and Arriva not been disqualified and First/Trenitalia not pulled out, this franchise would not be operated by Abellio.
 

STINT47

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It’s like I’ve said before - I 100% guarantee had Stagecoach and Arriva not been disqualified and First/Trenitalia not pulled out, this franchise would not be operated by Abellio.
At the time the government said that although the other bids had been disqualified Abellio had the best bid and would have won anyway.

Without seeing the rival bids I guess there is no way to know. I did consider a freedom of information request to get copies of the bid but expect my request would be declined on commercial grounds.

It is very disappointing that no refurbishment has been done on any trains with EMR yet. The paint scheme hardly matters when an uncomfortable, dirty train with worn interiors turns up.

I sometimes feel EMR are all about brand and marketing over substance and reality
 

samuelmorris

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I sometimes feel EMR are all about brand and marketing over substance and reality
That's the Abellio way. PR spin is a big part of their operation. They'll have had the best bid because they'll have promised to do the most, whether or not they had any intention of actually delivering it. Covid has proven an easy excuse to abandon plenty of franchise agreement promises that could still have happened even with the pandemic. Just a get out of jail free card. It's unfortunate but they're far from the only TOC that do it.
 

fgwrich

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That's the Abellio way. PR spin is a big part of their operation. They'll have had the best bid because they'll have promised to do the most, whether or not they had any intention of actually delivering it. Covid has proven an easy excuse to abandon plenty of franchise agreement promises that could still have happened even with the pandemic. Just a get out of jail free card. It's unfortunate but they're far from the only TOC that do it.
….waves from South Western Railway land…. First Group very much love the PR Bandwagon too. Unfortunately, what backs it up is equally severely lacking.

It is disappointing that the 360 refurbishment hasn’t happened sooner, but it will happen and they are at least getting on with the smartening of the fleet. The answers will come out eventually.
 
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MML

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Sat on another crowded 4-car unit to Corby again today.
At least 4 of the services are running as short formed this afternoon. I'm tempted to survey every passenger to ask whether their journey is made more 'exciting' by travelling on an aubergine livered unit. The Abellio PR and marketing teams really need to experience a good dose of reality. You shouldn't market a product unless you can deliver what it says on the tin.
 
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QSK19

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Sat on another crowded 4-car unit to Corby again today.
At least 2 of the services are running as short formed this afternoon. I'm tempted to survey every passenger to ask whether their journey is made more 'exciting' by travelling on an aubergine livered unit. The Abellio PR and marketing teams really need to experience a good dose of reality. You shouldn't market a product unless you can deliver what it says on the tin.
Yep indeed; but the DfT don’t seem that bothered - and so long as EMR get their management fee and aren’t really challenged on their performance, nothing will change unfortunately.

Passenger comfort in the East Midlands seems to count for nothing these days - I recently sent EMR a video of a leak coming from the ceiling of a 360 when it was raining heavily one day... no response from EMR (and at the time, there was no staff member to be seen on board to report the leak to).
 

spotify95

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So after two-and-a-half-years of Abellio running EMR, they haven't refurbished a single train.
Sounds about right. The 360s look tired on the inside - they're essentially 20 year old trains with no refurbishments - so 3+2 seating (not something the MML has had before), no tables, no plug sockets, a lower top speed than even the older Intercity 125s, and on some formations, 4 coach trains. An example today being the one that follows the 17:53 out of Wellingborough - that was only 4 coaches, not 8, and far from the 12 coaches we were promised in the peak.

Oh, and the 222s also feel like they need a good refurb, too (though that's for another thread).
 

RailWonderer

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That's the Abellio way. PR spin is a big part of their operation. They'll have had the best bid because they'll have promised to do the most, whether or not they had any intention of actually delivering it. Covid has proven an easy excuse to abandon plenty of franchise agreement promises that could still have happened even with the pandemic. Just a get out of jail free card. It's unfortunate but they're far from the only TOC that do it.
The marketing team do the best with what they have to work with - they have no choice but to keep putting lipstick on the pig for as long as EMR kick the can down the road with the 360 refurbishments and maintenance. They've been at Eastleigh for months with not one unit's interior completed. The failings of management or operations aren't the problem of the marketing team.
 

Mollman

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The marketing team do the best with what they have to work with - they have no choice but to keep putting lipstick on the pig for as long as EMR kick the can down the road with the 360 refurbishments and maintenance. They've been at Eastleigh for months with not one unit's interior completed. The failings of management or operations aren't the problem of the marketing team.
The main issue is that Eastleigh are only doing the repaint and presumably corrosion repair. The tender for interior refurbishment has not yet been awarded as far as I am aware, this means that you'll be lucky to see the first refurbished unit this year.
 

RailWonderer

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The main issue is that Eastleigh are only doing the repaint and presumably corrosion repair. The tender for interior refurbishment has not yet been awarded as far as I am aware, this means that you'll be lucky to see the first refurbished unit this year.
I had heard Brodies were doing it, but if the contract has not been signed then I am genuinely concerned for the good MMLers who may not even see refurbished trains due to the DfT cost cutting. Two years ago was their last chance to sign off a refurbishment program before the direct award system took over.
 

QSK19

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I wouldn’t be surprised if the 360s (and 170s & 158s too for that matter) aren’t refurbished at all. There are two possible reasons why: firstly, the DfT continue their penny-pinching attitude towards the East Midlands; or secondly, maybe Abellio have realised that they’re failing so badly that they don’t stand a chance of retaining the management contract and hence there’s no incentive to do anything with the rolling stock before the inevitable happens and they get kicked out.

Personally, I think Abellio needs stripping of the management contact and the East Midlands comes under the OLR until PSOs/GBR come to fruition. There also needs to be a promise of new Connect trains to an IC level of comfort* which can interchange with Intercity diagrams once the MML is fully electrified (if extra IC capacity is needed for whatever reason). The 360s can operate as an interim solution with a much lighter refurbishment consisting of a deep clean and restoring the seats to an acceptable condition (as opposed to stripping them out and reconfiguring the layout to 2+2). A few years pain for eventual gain.

* before anybody says anything, I know that new Connect trains is wishful thinking. At least if Abellio were kicked out for incompetence, the DfT would demonstrate that it cares about the East Midlands for once.
 

43102EMR

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I wouldn’t be surprised if the 360s (and 170s & 158s too for that matter) aren’t refurbished at all. There are two possible reasons why: firstly, the DfT continue their penny-pinching attitude towards the East Midlands; or secondly, maybe Abellio have realised that they’re failing so badly that they don’t stand a chance of retaining the management contract and hence there’s no incentive to do anything with the rolling stock before the inevitable happens and they get kicked out.

Personally, I think Abellio needs stripping of the management contact and the East Midlands comes under the OLR until PSOs/GBR come to fruition. There also needs to be a promise of new Connect trains to an IC level of comfort* which can interchange with Intercity diagrams once the MML is fully electrified (if extra IC capacity is needed for whatever reason). The 360s can operate as an interim solution with a much lighter refurbishment consisting of a deep clean and restoring the seats to an acceptable condition (as opposed to stripping them out and reconfiguring the layout to 2+2). A few years pain for eventual gain.

* before anybody says anything, I know that new Connect trains is wishful thinking. At least if Abellio were kicked out for incompetence, the DfT would demonstrate that it cares about the East Midlands for once.
I personally think that leasing costs aside, 3/4s of the 379s should have transferred over instead. EMR most likely took on the 360s due to their cheap leasing costs and that sister franchise WMT has a Siemens depot close(ish) by to do the 110mph mods and maintenance.
 

Mikey C

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A ridiculous situation considering Abellio won the contract nearly 3 years ago and took over in August 2019
 

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