EMR Class 360's

[Railperf]

Are you sure that’s Corby bound 222's ......360s accelerate rather better.

Yes, the timings taken from the Melton Mowbray 222 diagram and compared to the best 360 diagrams.

The 360's are slightly better off the mark (on full power) - but they are rarely driven on full power from a stand.
Initial start aside - there is barely any difference.
The approach to Wellingborough South junction will depend on traffic (how quickly the signaller can clear the route) and then the individual drivers approach to and from the junction. A five-car 222 will be able to accelerate quicker away from the junction than an 8-car or 12-car Class 360.

 

[The_Train]

Are any of these units still at the Stabling Sidings in Kettering or have they all departed there now?

 

[OTRail]

Are any of these units still at the Stabling Sidings in Kettering or have they all departed there now?

A few will still be there for driver training purposes as they still occur on weekdays.

 

[The_Train]

A few will still be there for driver training purposes as they still occur on weekdays.

Ah right, thanks!
I assume that Cricklewood is going to be the main base for these units with Northampton being the maintenance depot?

 

[221101 Voyager]

Ah right, thanks!
I assume that Cricklewood is going to be the main base for these units with Northampton being the maintenance depot?

I can say that Siemens Northampton are responsible for heavy maintenance.

Light maintenance I'm not 100% sure on the locations for that. Soz.

 

[Domh245]

Ah right, thanks!
I assume that Cricklewood is going to be the main base for these units with Northampton being the maintenance depot?

Not sure they'll have a 'base' per se - Cricklewood & Kettering will just be stabling points, with Cauldwell doing 'light' maintenance tasks & Northampton the heavier maintenance.

 

[43055]

Looking at RTT for the May timetable (weekdays):

Cricklewood looks to only have 1 set overnight which forms a Northbound service in the morning. An Empty stock (ECS) move from Bedford Cauldwell at lunchtime for the arrival.
Bedford Cauldwell (light maintenance) only 1 move again with the ECS departing to Cricklewood and an arrival in the afternoon from Corby.
Kettering sidings currently has 3 departures and 5 arrivals from Corby/Kettering (presumably go out as a 12 car and return as 4/8 cars?)
Also 1 set looks to stable in St Pancras overnight.

 

[43066]

Yes, the timings taken from the Melton Mowbray 222 diagram and compared to the best 360 diagrams.

Fair enough.

The 360's are slightly better off the mark (on full power) - but they are rarely driven on full power from a stand.
Initial start aside - there is barely any difference.
The approach to Wellingborough South junction will depend on traffic (how quickly the signaller can clear the route) and then the individual drivers approach to and from the junction. A five-car 222 will be able to accelerate quicker away from the junction than an 8-car or 12-car Class 360.

Both 360s and 222s will be at full power by 5mph or so in the hands of most drivers. As you say the length is probably why the additional allowance is made (which I had overlooked) - there’s quite a difference between a twelve car 360 and a four or five car meridian.

 

[swt_passenger]

Looking at RTT for the May timetable (weekdays):

Cricklewood looks to only have 1 set overnight which forms a Northbound service in the morning. An Empty stock (ECS) move from Bedford Cauldwell at lunchtime for the arrival.
Bedford Cauldwell (light maintenance) only 1 move again with the ECS departing to Cricklewood and an arrival in the afternoon from Corby.
Kettering sidings currently has 3 departures and 5 arrivals from Corby/Kettering (presumably go out as a 12 car and return as 4/8 cars?)
Also 1 set looks to stable in St Pancras overnight.

I too was just looking at the timings for 17 May. I‘d also suggest therefore that Kettering will hold the significant majority of the 360 fleet overnight. (I think there are 4 departures on the Monday, with 5H00 being MO, which makes sense as Sunday‘s timetable will be different.)

I’m assuming the peak service will be 6 trains in use? Predicted originally to be 12 car, so 18 of 21 in use in the am peak?

 

[The_Train]

I can say that Siemens Northampton are responsible for heavy maintenance.

Light maintenance I'm not 100% sure on the locations for that. Soz.

Not sure they'll have a 'base' per se - Cricklewood & Kettering will just be stabling points, with Cauldwell doing 'light' maintenance tasks & Northampton the heavier maintenance.

Looking at RTT for the May timetable (weekdays):

Cricklewood looks to only have 1 set overnight which forms a Northbound service in the morning. An Empty stock (ECS) move from Bedford Cauldwell at lunchtime for the arrival.
Bedford Cauldwell (light maintenance) only 1 move again with the ECS departing to Cricklewood and an arrival in the afternoon from Corby.
Kettering sidings currently has 3 departures and 5 arrivals from Corby/Kettering (presumably go out as a 12 car and return as 4/8 cars?)
Also 1 set looks to stable in St Pancras overnight.

I too was just looking at the timings for 17 May. I‘d also suggest therefore that Kettering will hold the significant majority of the 360 fleet overnight. (I think there are 4 departures on the Monday, with 5H00 being MO, which makes sense as Sunday‘s timetable will be different.)

I’m assuming the peak service will be 6 trains in use? Predicted originally to be 12 car, so 18 of 21 in use in the am peak?

Thanks for the info all

 

[Merle Haggard]

So from the above it is easy to see the attraction of the EMR Electrics services for people wishing to commute to Luton and Bedford more so the latter as 35 minutes on the train is more attractive to the passenger then spending a hour on a train which stops all stations Bedford to St Albans then non stop to St Pancras, as for example as most commuters at Bedford and Luton would certainly plump for the EMR service being that it takes half the time of the TL service.

But doesn't that apply also to the present diesel service?

 

[Aictos]

But doesn't that apply also to the present diesel service?

To a degree yes but remember the service is being uplifted to 2tph from the current 1tph which makes it appealing to passengers.

And instead of being 1tph of 5 carriages, it's 2tph of 8/12 carriages which is a massive uplift in capacity.

 

[Merle Haggard]

To a degree yes but remember the service is being uplifted to 2tph from the current 1tph which makes it appealing to passengers.

And instead of being 1tph of 5 carriages, it's 2tph of 8/12 carriages which is a massive uplift in capacity.

Accept those points, yes.
But isn't it curious that the Bedford - Corby electrification will result in a faster service for passengers between St Pancras and Luton & Bedford, and a slower one for passengers travelling to stations on the newly electrified section? (it's only Corby that has an increase in frequency, the other two stations already have 2 tph.).

 

[Ianno87]

Accept those points, yes.
But isn't it curious that the Bedford - Corby electrification will result in a faster service for passengers between St Pancras and Luton & Bedford, and a slower one for passengers travelling to stations on the newly electrified section? (it's only Corby that has an increase in frequency, the other two stations already have 2 tph.).

But doesn't Kettering now get two fast and two slow trains per hour, instead of the previous 2 slow trains only?

 

[Merle Haggard]

But doesn't Kettering now get two fast and two slow trains per hour, instead of the previous 2 slow trains only?

Sorry that's right; but of course it means there's no (or very little) point in a Kettering to St Pancras (or V.V.) passenger using the Corby Electrics - only case would be having just missed a fast and having a longer (time) journey on a 360 to arrive a few minutes before the next 222 fast.
Still think its strange; after electrification, Kettering - London faster by diesel than by the new electrics, Wellingborough and Corby slower than before.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Do we know what's happening as regards refurbishment of the 360's?

I feel rather keen to ride a 360, 810 and 170 at EMR when all sets are up and running.

In some ways, the 360's will be an improvement on the 222's even though they're commuter trains...

1. Electric so therefore less pollution than the 222's!

2. Longer coaches and more capacity - is the plan for 12-cars all day? Admittedly it would save decoupling unless at the depot or if there's a fault.

3. Better door layout vs end doors on 222's.

4. Of course much quieter than the diesel trains.

 

[43055]

But doesn't that apply also to the present diesel service?

The current service does not have calls at peak times at Bedford and Luton. Southbound in the morning and northbound in the afternoon.

Accept those points, yes.
But isn't it curious that the Bedford - Corby electrification will result in a faster service for passengers between St Pancras and Luton & Bedford, and a slower one for passengers travelling to stations on the newly electrified section? (it's only Corby that has an increase in frequency, the other two stations already have 2 tph.).

Is it slower though? The end to end journey times only seem to be around 2 minutes longer than the current timetable.

 

[swt_passenger]

Do we know what's happening as regards refurbishment of the 360's?

I feel rather keen to ride a 360, 810 and 170 at EMR when all sets are up and running.

2. Longer coaches and more capacity - is the plan for 12-cars all day? Admittedly it would save decoupling unless at the depot or if there's a fault.

They’re not going to be 12 car all day, but definitely in the busy periods. They do have enough units to go 12 car all day if needed. They will not be modified until after introduction into service. Source is EMR PR announcements quoted in this thread somewhere last summer.

They will also eventually get changed seating, 2+1 in first, 2+2 in standard. Exact numbers of seats are in an earlier post somewhere, I’ll try and find it: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/emr-class-360s.205226/page-17#post-4862899

 

[Bald Rick]

They’re not going to be 12 car all day

They’re not going to be 12 car all! At least not for a while.

 

[swt_passenger]

They’re not going to be 12 car all! At least not for a while.

Yes that‘s what I’d assumed in the current climate. Was just repeating the original franchise plans. Good thing they never took random forum members advice to take those other 360s as well...

 

[Aictos]

The current service does not have calls at peak times at Bedford and Luton. Southbound in the morning and northbound in the afternoon.

Is it slower though? The end to end journey times only seem to be around 2 minutes longer than the current timetable.

Actually the Class 360s will only be 2 minutes slower then the current Class 222s so not a big deal maker as some seem to think it is especially when you get a clock face timetable of departures that are longer and quieter trains.

The main point is making sure the connections at Kettering work.

 

[yorkie]

As this thread is a traction & rolling stock thread to discuss the EMR class 360 trains, I have moved some timetable discussion posts to:

The impact of the new EMR timetable on journeys from Corby, Kettering, Wellingborough to London

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/emr-class-360s.205226 The biggest loser in this is Wellingborough. We will loose a frequent peak time service to a half hourly one, northbound services - unless one wants to visit Corby, service in First Class and comfortable inter...

www.railforums.co.uk

If we can stick to the EMR 360s in this thread that would be great; the forum has plenty of spare capacity for anyone to create threads to discuss any other topic

 

[MadCommuter]

There was a class 47 hauled 360 move between Kettering and Northampton yesterday, plus a return move. Was this a maintenance working to Siemens and is this likely to be a regular operation?

 

[221101 Voyager]

There was a class 47 hauled 360 move between Kettering and Northampton yesterday, plus a return move. Was this a maintenance working to Siemens and is this likely to be a regular operation?

This was indeed a maintenance working, and yes they will be a fairly regular occurance of around 1 maintenance move a week being pretty normal.

 

[MadCommuter]

This was indeed a maintenance working, and yes they will be a fairly regular occurance of around 1 maintenance move a week being pretty normal.

Thanks for your help.

 

[221101 Voyager]

Thanks for your help.

No problem, we should also see repaints on these units commencing later this year too!

 

[Merle Haggard]

This was indeed a maintenance working, and yes they will be a fairly regular occurance of around 1 maintenance move a week being pretty normal.

Thanks for the information, but, at the moment, the mileage covered by each 360 must be pretty small. Do you know if the one move per week will be increased when they're in full use and knocking up mileage/hours?

 

[221101 Voyager]

Thanks for the information, but, at the moment, the mileage covered by each 360 must be pretty small. Do you know if the one move per week will be increased when they're in full use and knocking up mileage/hours?

They are certainly likely to increase some what, but precisely how often they will be I don't know.

 

[Merle Haggard]

They are certainly likely to increase some what, but precisely how often they will be I don't know.

Thanks for that. Wonder if pathing might become a problem for more frequent moves.

 

[221101 Voyager]

Thanks for that. Wonder if pathing might become a problem for more frequent moves.

I doubt it would be an issue, as they are a 75 mph run, like most freight workings are to be honest.