EMR December 2020 Timetable Consultation

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by 43074, 21 Nov 2019.

  1. 43074

    43074 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,609
    Joined:
    10 Oct 2012
    EMR have published it's proposals for December 2020. The main change is the introduction of the electric services between London and Corby, and on the Regional side Derby to Nottingham increasing to 4tph (2tph XC and 2 EMR) by extending Crewe services to Newark Castle instead of the Matlock services, which will continue to run through to Nottingham.

    I don't know how much of the information in the consultation we didn't know already but the opportunity to view the proposals and respond to the consultation is on the link below:
    https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/december2020
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

    Messages:
    3,697
    Joined:
    26 Oct 2013
    Also Leicester to Lincoln running through to Grimsby each second hour and the withdrawal of the Erewash (Alfreton and Langley Mill) London services. Reading between the lines the 0835 Nottingham to Norwich (1L04) will start back from Sheffield instead, the evening services being replaced by the much improved (when they turn up) Northern service. The 2137ish ECS Manchester to Notts also becomes a service train.

    Scarborough confirmed to be in the bin after next year but York services continuing.
     
  4. High Dyke

    High Dyke Established Member

    Messages:
    2,127
    Joined:
    1 Jan 2013
    Location:
    Yellabelly Country
    Proposals for increasing services across Lincolnshire won't count for much if they haven't engaged Network Rail in dialogue, especially with regards to resourcing more signallers for signalling locations. An improved all year round Sunday service cannot be delivered with the current staffing levels on routes such as the Skegness line.
     
  5. InTheEastMids

    InTheEastMids Member

    Messages:
    413
    Joined:
    31 Jan 2016
    Quite a few errors in the document. Missing pictures, apparently Bedford passengers get XXXXed and loving the random mention of LEEDS on page 30

    As expected, Kettering becomes the main interchange to link up the outer suburban and inter city services.

    In general this looks like an improvement for most passengers although obviously some losers eg Wellingborough to Leicester/Sheffield. And no intercity stops for Luton Airport.

    I note the 360s will be pressed into service in their current state and then refurbished, reflecting I guess the reality that Anglia don't have their replacements
     
  6. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

    Messages:
    15,584
    Joined:
    16 Dec 2008
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Good news for Kettering anyhow - four trains per hour to London (two of which are non-stop)?

    The reference to "Leeds" on page thirty looks like a bit of an afterthought though!
     
  7. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,559
    Joined:
    3 May 2015
    Amusing suggestions for the 4 letter word masked by XXXX on a postcard, please.
     
  8. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    13,465
    Joined:
    27 Jan 2014
    Location:
    West of Andover
    Which is a surprise, I would have imagined both Scarborough and the daily York service would have been binned. Seems to be a waste of an unit as it sits in the York area most of the day, and it's not like there is no alternative services for Sheffield - Doncaster - York.

    ---------------

    Can I grab the popcorn for when the Wellingborough/Kettering commuters kick off about being reduced to 3+2 commuter EMUs when paying Intercity prices?
     
  9. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

    Messages:
    21,149
    Joined:
    7 Apr 2010
    I see that the only other mention of the word “Leeds” (there are only 2) is on the route map - it isn’t mentioned in any text. For some while I’d wondered whether it would even be served, especially once the HSTs are gone...
     
  10. 43074

    43074 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,609
    Joined:
    10 Oct 2012
    Yes indeed, at least they seem to recognise this - Page 28 says "In the morning peak, the connection time for passengers travelling from Luton, Bedford or Wellingborough to Nottingham is likely to be a little over 30 minutes in some instances", which is concerning given the number of people who do travel North from the intermediate stations on trains like the 0704 from London. Looks like 9 minute connections Northbound and 15 minute connections Southbound will be the standard connection times off peak.
     
  11. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,559
    Joined:
    3 May 2015
    Yes, Leeds is rather conspicuous by its absence. I'd have expected a firm statement to say either 'Leeds services remain roughly as-is' or 'Leeds services will no longer operate'

    Wouldn't be surprised if York is a nice little ORCATS earner from Saturday leisure flows...
     
  12. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    13,465
    Joined:
    27 Jan 2014
    Location:
    West of Andover
    One train a day, for any "any permitted" Sheffield - York tickets I dare say EMR would get hardly anything under Orcats, the bulk going to XC, then TPE/LNER/Northern getting their cut.
     
  13. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

    Messages:
    15,584
    Joined:
    16 Dec 2008
    Location:
    Sheffield
    To Leicester maybe, but there's nothing from Wellingborough to Sheffield between 07:12 and 19:20 at the moment so I'm guessing any prospective passengers are used to changing en route already? (I appreciate it goes up to a second change but it's not as if a regular direct Sheffield service is being cut)

    Kettering passengers are getting two non-stop services per hour to St Pncras with 2+2 seats though (as well as the half hourly twelve coach EMU)?

    It is a ridiculously long dwell there. Whilst I'm all for good services from Sheffield, it does seem an anomaly. IF it's there to take pressure off XC then it needs to run via Leeds (or maybe they could stop it at Pontefract and get rid of the pointless Northern box ticker?)

    I guess it could be that they are waiting on sorting out where the IET300s are to be based before they commit to anything north of Sheffield? So they don't want to mention Leeds much now, if it's something that they might have to bin in a couple of years (but might not)? Dunno
     
  14. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    13,465
    Joined:
    27 Jan 2014
    Location:
    West of Andover
    Which will probably be busy, so it will be a case of weighing up the options of standing in a vestibule for ~ 40 minutes or sitting on 3+2 seats for ~ 50 minutes.
     
  15. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

    Messages:
    21,149
    Joined:
    7 Apr 2010
    Not a bad theory, really. Just sort of stay neutral...
     
  16. 222001

    222001 Member

    Messages:
    707
    Joined:
    1 Sep 2006
    Location:
    Chesterfield
    The DFT specified York services in the TSR, but not the Scarborough extensions. So they're only running it because they've been told to.
     
  17. sheff1

    sheff1 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,286
    Joined:
    24 Dec 2009
    Location:
    Sheffield
    I see they believe Sheffield is in the East Midlands, which will come as a surprise to those who consider themselves to be proud Yorkshire folk.

    Agree that the York service is a waste of a unit. Not really sure why DfT specified it when there are two XC trains an hour from/to Derby, Chesterfield & Sheffield.
     
  18. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

    Messages:
    1,655
    Joined:
    30 May 2018
    Location:
    Sheffield
    As one who used to travel regularly from Chesterfield to Bedford on business I sometimes found going south to come back north was helpful, but with this timetabling suggestion it seems changing strategies for travel between Bedford from the north will be crucial. A shame because the offices I'd be visiting were located to Bedford because it had the new electric services for London, but more importantly the fast services going on to Sheffield and Nottingham. Most times I caught them requiring no changes.
     
  19. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

    Messages:
    7,574
    Joined:
    2 Oct 2009
    Location:
    East Anglia
    That all makes sense apart from the continuation of the York. Don't get me wrong I'm all for it but cannot get my head around how can be justified commercially.
     
  20. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,503
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    No more Scarborough from 2021. Page 30

    wasn’t Leeds mentioned in the franchise map? Scarborough wasn’t and it was mentioned both York and Leeds would be retained in the future.
     
  21. 222001

    222001 Member

    Messages:
    707
    Joined:
    1 Sep 2006
    Location:
    Chesterfield
    Leeds wasn't in the TSR, so if it's being retained, that will be a decision Abellio made in their bid. The lack of a mention of Leeds services surely means they're going in the bin?
     
  22. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,503
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    Scarborough saw no mention on the franchise map nor the TSR and is being axed. Leeds was not mentioned in TSR but was mentioned in the franchise map.
     
  23. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,503
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    I’ve contacted them to ask
     
  24. Aictos

    Aictos Established Member

    Messages:
    8,546
    Joined:
    28 Apr 2009
    Those EMR Electrics, are they planned to be 12 car all day or just in peaks?

    Regardless they will give a massive uplift in capacity from a 4 or 4 car Class 222!
     
  25. 222001

    222001 Member

    Messages:
    707
    Joined:
    1 Sep 2006
    Location:
    Chesterfield
    I still don't see why they'd run to Leeds unless they were forced too. There won't be an operational reason to go there anymore.
     
  26. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,503
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    from the franchise map
     
  27. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,503
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    York has been retained no reason to think Leeds won’t be
     
  28. 222001

    222001 Member

    Messages:
    707
    Joined:
    1 Sep 2006
    Location:
    Chesterfield
    Another clue to Leeds going is the removal of Alfreton and Langley Mill services from December 2020. These are currently served by the Nottingham extensions that start at Leeds.
     
  29. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

    Messages:
    5,559
    Joined:
    3 May 2015
    Hmm, not necessarily. It may mean those Nottingham extensions are simply resourced from Etches Park/wherever as they no longer have a need to originate from Leeds (Neville Hill) for maintenance if the HSTs are going.

    It could be that a couple of Sheffield starters still need to come from Leeds if that is where suitable servicing/stabling provision is located.
     
  30. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

    Messages:
    1,503
    Joined:
    4 Apr 2018
    It’s confirmed:

    I asked EMR whether they planned to keep Leeds services they said:

    It is a franchise requirement when they were awarded it.
     
  31. 222001

    222001 Member

    Messages:
    707
    Joined:
    1 Sep 2006
    Location:
    Chesterfield
    Interesting. They must be extensions of Sheffield services instead. I'm wondering if it's an Etches Park space issue - keep a few units stabled at Neville Hill overnight, and free up a bit of space at Etches Park.
     

Share This Page