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EMR refusing Scottish money

Butts

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NatWest operates under a UK banking licence and is registered in England & Wales. RBS operates under a separate UK banking licence and is registered in Scotland. Both are separate legal entities but subsidiaries of an intermediate holding company - NatWest Holdings Limited - which is registered in England & Wales. This intermediate company is owned by NatWest Group plc which is registered in Scotland.

Bank of Scotland has a UK banking licence and is registered in Scotland. Lloyds has a separate UK banking licence and is registered in England & Wales.

So, RBS and Bank of Scotland both remain Scottish banks.

Strange how things change.....

At one time I'm sure Barclays Bank owned Bank of Scotland, Midland Bank Clydesdale and National Westminster Bank RBS.

Who remembers the old Linen Bank I'm sure they used to issue notes up here as well.

Strange Wales is the only UK constituent that does not issue it's own notes.
 
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Halwynd

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Strange how things change.....

At one time I'm sure Barclays Bank owned Bank of Scotland, Midland Bank Clydesdale and National Westminster Bank RBS.

Who remembers the old Linen Bank I'm sure they used to issue notes up here as well.

Strange Wales is the only UK constituent that does not issue it's own notes.

I can remember Midland/Clydesdale, and of course NatWest/RBS today, but I didn't know about Barclays/BoS - you learn something every day!
 

tspaul26

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I can remember Midland/Clydesdale, and of course NatWest/RBS today, but I didn't know about Barclays/BoS - you learn something every day!
That’s because it’s not quite correct: Barclays owned the British Linen Company which merged with the Bank of Scotland.

Barclays thus had a minority interest in the Bank for a time, but did not own it or take it over.

To bring things back on topic, I am aware of the background to this notice (although cannot disclose the full details).

However, this ‘not accepting Scottish notes’ is certainly not part of the official briefing which went round.
 

Mcr Warrior

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At one time I'm sure Barclays Bank owned Bank of Scotland...
Believe it was only a 35% stake. See also below.

Who remembers the old Linen Bank I'm sure they used to issue notes up here as well.
This entity was, for some time, indeed owned by Barclays. When it was agreed in the late 1960s that Linen Bank should be divested, so that it could be merged in with the Bank of Scotland, that was when Barclays acquired their 35% stake in Bank of Scotland, which they retained for several years thereafter.
 

Struner

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As I mentioned earlier though, that ignorance is understandable given that not only are Scottish notes rarely seen in many places, but there are also three kinds of them, not one as per Bank of England currency!
ignorance is bliss. & that is widespread in engerdlandshire.
 

Vespa

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.

In the US, currency does not become expired, although well-used notes are removed from circulation so they become rarer. Many faces on their notes have been unchanged for over 100 years.
American banknotes while retaining the green colour and faces, US Federal Bank have introduced security threads on their notes which changes colour under UV light, gold numbers and raised textures on the surface.

$1 and $2 is unchanged as it's too low a value for forgeries, $1 coins is available but it not as popular as the "Washington" notes.
 

Gonzoiku

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Strange Wales is the only UK constituent that does not issue it's own notes.
And yet, when I proffered a Clydesdale Bank fiver at a retailer in Covent Garden ~10 years ago, the teenager on the till shrieked "Eurgh wossat? Welsh?"

GZ
 

Travelmonkey

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As I suspected this has turned into quite a lively debate. I got chatting to the bloke at the ticket office for Burton On Trent and he hadn't heard that he wasn't to take Scottish notes so likely just a Sheffield thing. I did find it a bit interesting though,
 

Haywain

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Strange Wales is the only UK constituent that does not issue it's own notes.
Not that strange. Scotland and Ireland have only been part of the UK over the past 300 years, whereas Wales has a much longer history of being ruled from London.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Not that strange. Scotland and Ireland have only been part of the UK over the past 300 years, whereas Wales has a much longer history of being ruled from London.
There have been Welsh banknotes issued more recently than that, albeit not always officially! (Such as the "Chief Treasury of Wales" notes issued in the 1960's until the person responsible was told to stop doing so).

Banknotes / promissory notes issued by provincial banks in places like Aberystwyth, Brecon, Carmarthen and Mold also used to be quite a big thing back in the 19th century.

More here...


Believe the Bank of England gained a legal monopoly on the issue of banknotes in England and Wales in 1921.
 

robbeech

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I'm fairly sure they need to accept cash as part of their contract with DfT.
As I’ve mentioned before, it matters not one bit what they need to do. They will do as they please.
Please clarify.

Do you think I am expecting too much for the rail industry to configure and maintain its TVMs correctly?

Or something else?
Yes.
Still did as of yesterday nice new polymer ones. I did laugh at how the Hong Kong & Shanghai Banking Corporation was an ‘English’ bank (HSBC).
I refrained from posting this when I first saw the comment, I’m pleased someone said it though.
 

Birkonian

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Anyone who has been to a racecourse in England has probably received Scottish notes if they are lucky enough to win. The bookmakers accept them without comment but also offload them if possible.
 

infobleep

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If TMVs can accept them then why don't ticket offices have similar tech? I don't mean a whole TMV but the part that checks.
 

KT550

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HSBC hasn't technically stood for that for a long time. Its head office moved to London when Hong Kong was returned to China. Despite its heritage, it is very much an English bank now.
Midland Bank (founded in Birmingham UK in 1836) entered into a merger with the HongKong & Shanghai Banking Corporation in 1992. Both banks became wholly owned subsidiaries of HSBC Holdings, a company registered in London.

Midland Bank changed name to HSBC Bank in about 1997.

The current HSBC UK Bank was formed in 2018 to separate retail from wholesale banking.

The UK operations are not a foreign branch of the HongKong bank.
 

Hadders

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If TMVs can accept them then why don't ticket offices have similar tech? I don't mean a whole TMV but the part that checks.
It wouldn't be commercially viable. The value of forged notes tendered is in significant decline due to polymer notes being more secure, and the general decline in cash transactions.

Online card fraud is the biggie now and that's where resources need to be targeted.
 

redreni

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It wouldn't be commercially viable. The value of forged notes tendered is in significant decline due to polymer notes being more secure, and the general decline in cash transactions.

Online card fraud is the biggie now and that's where resources need to be targeted.
Much cheaper to inconvenience passengers. And there must have been some passengers spending Scottish banknotes at Sheffield ticket office before the sign went up, or it wouldn't have gone up. The sign doesn't claim all the Scottish notes tendered were forgeries.

Hopefully those affected are able to pay another way or get the ticket they need from the TVMs without too much trouble. I do tend to think EMR ought to make up its mind if this is enough of an issue to be worth addressing properly (i.e. provide equipment to staff or train staff to detect and not accept forged Scottish notes) or not (in which case do nothing).

If a pragmatic middle ground is wanted, why not tell ticket office staff to only accept Scottish notes over the counter if the ticket being sold can't be bought from the TVMs, and otherwise apologise to the customer and explain that we want any Scottish notes to go through the TVMs where possible as it's the most effective way we have to detect any forgeries (and assist the customer to use the TVM if necessary)?
 

Kenny G

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Strange how things change.....

At one time I'm sure Barclays Bank owned Bank of Scotland, Midland Bank Clydesdale and National Westminster Bank RBS.

Who remembers the old Linen Bank I'm sure they used to issue notes up here as well.

Strange Wales is the only UK constituent that does not issue it's own notes.
Wales shares the same legal system as England and apart from the recently devolved powers has to all extents and purposes was conjoined with England for hundreds of years. Very different situation to Scotland and NI who have their distinct legal systems with significant divergence.
 

krus_aragon

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All UK issued banknotes are sterling. Bank of England notes do not state sterling on them yet banknotes issued by Scottish & Northern Irish banks do. Why?
My wife, many moons ago, workad at a place that told its staff they could only accept a banknote that said "pounds sterling" on it. She took great joy in pointing out that was missing from all the Bank of England notes in the drawer.

Strange Wales is the only UK constituent that does not issue it's own notes.
The right to issue banknotes was lost if a bank was taken over. Wales' long, populated border, and overall proximity to London, meant that there were plenty of such mergers.

The last Welsh bank to have the right to issue notes was the North and South Wales Bank, which was taken over by the Midland bank in 1908.
 

Hadders

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Much cheaper to inconvenience passengers. And there must have been some passengers spending Scottish banknotes at Sheffield ticket office before the sign went up, or it wouldn't have gone up. The sign doesn't claim all the Scottish notes tendered were forgeries.

Hopefully those affected are able to pay another way or get the ticket they need from the TVMs without too much trouble. I do tend to think EMR ought to make up its mind if this is enough of an issue to be worth addressing properly (i.e. provide equipment to staff or train staff to detect and not accept forged Scottish notes) or not (in which case do nothing).

If a pragmatic middle ground is wanted, why not tell ticket office staff to only accept Scottish notes over the counter if the ticket being sold can't be bought from the TVMs, and otherwise apologise to the customer and explain that we want any Scottish notes to go through the TVMs where possible as it's the most effective way we have to detect any forgeries (and assist the customer to use the TVM if necessary)?
My view is that EMR should not be refusing to accept Scottish banknotes. They should train their staff correctly in the security features of polymer banknotes.
 

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